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      01-10-2013, 09:58 PM   #23
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Wait, which people are defecting from 911s and GTRs? Its the other way around.
Some folks on the forum claim they had a 911 or GT-R and decided to go back to a M3 because they "missed it so much". It's certainly surprising I know, but I guess that's what makes it so impressive a move.

But you're right, it's also the other way around a lot of times (if not most of the time), just NOT ALL THE TIME.
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      01-10-2013, 10:02 PM   #24
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I officially nominate you to the BMW Management Board.
Ha, thanks. But I'm sure someone will flame me for "insulting" the GT-R or 911, because they want to believe that no one would ever go back to a M3 after driving those cars. In fact, Mr. Blue Dragon is one of those people as you can see ...
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      01-10-2013, 10:03 PM   #25
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its funny
traditional luxury maker Mercedes and Lexus is trying to be more sporty, while BMW is going the opposite direction and becoming soft..

prove us wrong with the upcoming m2, m3 and m4
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      01-10-2013, 10:32 PM   #26
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its funny
traditional luxury maker Mercedes and Lexus is trying to be more sporty, while BMW is going the opposite direction and becoming soft..

prove us wrong with the upcoming m2, m3 and m4
+1 on both comments. Absolutely right
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      01-11-2013, 08:14 AM   #27
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Ha, thanks. But I'm sure someone will flame me for "insulting" the GT-R or 911, because they want to believe that no one would ever go back to a M3 after driving those cars. In fact, Mr. Blue Dragon is one of those people as you can see ...
I myself am one of those individuals coming out of a Porsche (GT3) to M3 ownership. I have yet to receive the M3 from my order, so I cant compare the two yet. I can say that my decision to jump to the M3 and not buy another Porsche was very simple, you don't need the "top car" to be the top dog and more importantly having the top car doesn't make you the top dog. There are too many people fixated on statistics of cars and convincing themselves that ownership of that caliber magically makes them a driving star. To me its really about the pleasure the car gives to you and not the satisfaction/ego of numbers and 0-60 times. Do I make sense?
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      01-11-2013, 10:38 AM   #28
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^^ I would agree with you, but then most of us would be driving an FRS if it was only about driving pleaseure
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      01-11-2013, 12:50 PM   #29
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I myself am one of those individuals coming out of a Porsche (GT3) to M3 ownership. I have yet to receive the M3 from my order, so I cant compare the two yet. I can say that my decision to jump to the M3 and not buy another Porsche was very simple, you don't need the "top car" to be the top dog and more importantly having the top car doesn't make you the top dog. There are too many people fixated on statistics of cars and convincing themselves that ownership of that caliber magically makes them a driving star. To me its really about the pleasure the car gives to you and not the satisfaction/ego of numbers and 0-60 times. Do I make sense?
100 percent my friend, this is the elusive quality that BMW cars generally claim they deliver - JOY. In BMW's own way and formulation, it is the Ultimate Driving Experience intended for consumers. They try and literally make the car deliver on an experience that's more than the-sum-of-its-parts, that's why none of us can say exactly what it is universally that defines the feeling of driving a M car...whatever it is, we all agree it's so special we never forget it and somehow find ourselves even comparing other exotics to it. People who return to the M cars just happen to "feel", as you do, that this certain formulation is the ideal definition of "driving pleasure" - it is beyond the numbers, and certainly past quantitative reasoning.

I'm not going to even respond to the FRS comment, what an idiotic thing to say - period.

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      01-11-2013, 10:40 PM   #30
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100 percent my friend, this is the elusive quality that BMW cars generally claim they deliver - JOY. In BMW's own way and formulation, it is the Ultimate Driving Experience intended for consumers. They try and literally make the car deliver on an experience that's more than the-sum-of-its-parts, that's why none of us can say exactly what it is universally that defines the feeling of driving a M car...whatever it is, we all agree it's so special we never forget it and somehow find ourselves even comparing other more exotics to it. People who return to the M cars just happen to "feel", as you do, that this certain formulation is the ideal definition of "driving pleasure" - it is beyond the numbers, and certainly past quantitative reasoning.

I'm not going to even respond to the FRS comment, what an idiotic thing to say - period.
Finally someone who understands! On the money brother.
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      01-12-2013, 07:03 AM   #31
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BMW is also the ONLY independent mass production car manufacturer in the world. They don't have hundreds of product lines to help offset all the R&D costs of any project cars that aren't a part of their core business.
Wait, what? Independent from what? Mini? Rolls Royce? Hummm...
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      01-12-2013, 07:29 AM   #32
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Wait, what? Independent from what? Mini? Rolls Royce? Hummm...
Yes. Independent meaning they are not owned by a huge corporate umbrella like say Volkswagen or Fiat. BMW are actually a small corporation, which is amazing considering their market possition and overall value of the company (2x that of Mercedes). VW can build the Bugatti because they have the money to throw away for its development and production. BMW don't have those resources.
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      01-12-2013, 07:43 AM   #33
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Yes. Independent meaning they are not owned by a huge corporate umbrella like say Volkswagen or Fiat. BMW are actually a small corporation, which is amazing considering their market possition and overall value of the company (2x that of Mercedes). VW can build the Bugatti because they have the money to throw away for its development and production. BMW don't have those resources.
Ah, well, let's see, I remember something called the Z8, that was a halo car for BMW. The original E30 M3, halo car, almost built the BMW brand post 1987. The 850 comes to mind also. How about the M6 cabrio? Or let's go even farther back to the Z1, the plastic fantastic car that came out 7 years after the Fiero.

Let's go the other way, the 7 underpins the Rolls Royce. The upcoming 1-series will platform-share with Mini. The X-series are all cross-overs from the sedans. Sure VW is a huge corporation and builds 49 cars off the MQB platform. BMW does it just the same conceptually (as all manufacturers do), not as drastic, only on a smaller scale.

Case in point, regarding the Z2:

"We are considering a car in the spirit of the original Z3,” a BMW official revealed to Autocar. “It is of similar size to the Z3 but is planned to use the front-wheel-drive platform to keep costs down and achieve a margin level that ensures it is sustainable at comparatively low production volumes."

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 01-12-2013 at 07:54 AM.
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      01-12-2013, 07:49 AM   #34
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I myself am one of those individuals coming out of a Porsche (GT3) to M3 ownership. I have yet to receive the M3 from my order, so I cant compare the two yet. I can say that my decision to jump to the M3 and not buy another Porsche was very simple, you don't need the "top car" to be the top dog and more importantly having the top car doesn't make you the top dog. There are too many people fixated on statistics of cars and convincing themselves that ownership of that caliber magically makes them a driving star. To me its really about the pleasure the car gives to you and not the satisfaction/ego of numbers and 0-60 times. Do I make sense?
And this is the same argument for driving a lowly 325/328 vs. a 335i
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      01-12-2013, 08:12 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Class-of-2013 View Post
100 percent my friend, this is the elusive quality that BMW cars generally claim they deliver - JOY. In BMW's own way and formulation, it is the Ultimate Driving Experience intended for consumers. They try and literally make the car deliver on an experience that's more than the-sum-of-its-parts, that's why none of us can say exactly what it is universally that defines the feeling of driving a M car...whatever it is, we all agree it's so special we never forget it and somehow find ourselves even comparing other exotics to it. People who return to the M cars just happen to "feel", as you do, that this certain formulation is the ideal definition of "driving pleasure" - it is beyond the numbers, and certainly past quantitative reasoning.

I'm not going to even respond to the FRS comment, what an idiotic thing to say - period.
This takes me back to BMW's now defunct attempt to get out from under the "Ultimate Driving Machine" marketing mantra (that goes all the way back to the late '80s!) with the "Joy" marketing campaign. I hope their intent was to not evoke the "Strength through joy" name of Nazi Germany's national labor movement party. We all know where that got us...
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      01-12-2013, 08:39 AM   #36
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This takes me back to BMW's now defunct attempt to get out from under the "Ultimate Driving Machine" marketing mantra (that goes all the way back to the late '80s!) with the "Joy" marketing campaign. I hope their intent was to not evoke the "Strength through joy" name of Nazi Germany's national labor movement party. We all know where that got us...
In an effort to expand the reach of its brand, BMW did launch a new “Story of Joy” advertising campaign in 2010. The “Joy” campaign was not designed to replace BMW’s long-standing and well-known “Ultimate Driving Machine” campaign / global brand tagline, which has resonated with BMW’s core car enthusiast loyalists for decades. Rather, “Joy” was intended to appeal to consumers who are not necessarily driving enthusiasts but love
to live life (albeit with driving as a part of that experience).

One thing is for sure, the“Joy” campaign represented a departure from the “Ultimate Driving Machine” brand message in an effort to reach new audiences and position BMW for broader appeal.

I do wonder what they found in the post brand study to make them retract segmented messaging strategy to the broader target. They are clearly still targeting the broader target through their ever expanding niche product lines, but back under the master brand tagline "The Ultimate Driving Machine".
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      01-13-2013, 05:32 PM   #37
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Ralph Gilles for the job !!!

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      01-13-2013, 06:16 PM   #38
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There are too many people fixated on statistics of cars and convincing themselves that ownership of that caliber magically makes them a driving star. To me its really about the pleasure the car gives to you and not the satisfaction/ego of numbers and 0-60 times. Do I make sense?
This exactly. I got into a minor argument with a friend of mine a few months ago. He was saying that he might buy the new M5, and I said that the old one (E60) was a better drivers car. He could not comprehend how a car with less power could be better to drive. Its really a shame that people just don't care anymore, but what is worse is that the car makers are not giving them a reason to care anymore.
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      01-13-2013, 07:27 PM   #39
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Ralph Gilles for the job !!!

I second your nomination
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      01-13-2013, 07:34 PM   #40
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There are too many people fixated on statistics of cars and convincing themselves that ownership of that caliber magically makes them a driving star. To me its really about the pleasure the car gives to you and not the satisfaction/ego of numbers and 0-60 times. Do I make sense?
This exactly. I got into a minor argument with a friend of mine a few months ago. He was saying that he might buy the new M5, and I said that the old one (E60) was a better drivers car. He could not comprehend how a car with less power could be better to drive. Its really a shame that people just don't care anymore, but what is worse is that the car makers are not giving them a reason to care anymore.
Yes. I agree with your insight 100%. The E60 M5, in every way, was like some insane special edition that should never had been a "production" sedan. Like the E90/92 M3 the E60 M5 was what BMW has been all about. The market is kind of uncertain and undefined right now. Lets hope BMW gets their priorities correct is the next few years. I think they will.
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      01-14-2013, 11:54 AM   #41
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Could be worse....the CEO of Harley Davidson does not have a motorcyle lisence
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