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      05-31-2012, 09:39 AM   #45
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Ouch
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      05-31-2012, 12:03 PM   #46
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Does not look like he had the bra in the correct place.
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      05-31-2012, 09:14 PM   #47
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Nice attempted parallel parking move... Ouch.
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      07-25-2012, 03:15 PM   #48
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What was that guy smoking? Jerking the wheel opposite of the weight transfer his car was in the progress of then turning against the skid while slamming the brakes.....

Been to a number of auto-x events and have never seen anything like that. Course, vettes are beasts on the track, but a HELL OF A LOT less forgiving then cars like the GTR or ///M3. Better be damn sure of what you are doing with those beasts.

Hopefully the guys was ok, sure he was. Car is screwed though.

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      10-12-2012, 02:49 PM   #49
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I purchased a 9-event policy through BMWCCA HPDE. Policy covers most HPDE's and Open track days.
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      10-12-2012, 08:16 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ortho281
I purchased a 9-event policy through BMWCCA HPDE. Policy covers most HPDE's and Open track days.
Quanta costa?
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      10-23-2012, 01:41 PM   #51
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Quote:
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Quanta costa?
Depends on declared value of your car and how many track days per year. Quotes are free.

http://bmwhpdeins.locktonaffinity.co...ult.aspx?cID=1
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      10-30-2012, 09:38 AM   #52
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I just signed up for a multi-event with Lockton. I was hesitant to get insurance per event when often I just go for the day (you pay for three days). The discount you receive with the multi-event makes it all good.

Ironically, the cost of the policy is almost what I paid for street coverage of my old track car.
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      01-10-2013, 05:12 PM   #53
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I purchase my ins through Jacob Katz insurance, out of New York City. www.katzinsurance.com.
I just did as well. $400 for $70K in coverage with a 10% deductible.
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      02-18-2013, 12:20 PM   #54
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Fortunately I can make no informed comments regarding whether there'd be any struggles to get the promised coverage, but my insurer - Nationwide - provides written assurance that my standard auto policy covers me during HPDE events.

FYI
YMMV
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      02-18-2013, 02:01 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
I just signed up for a multi-event with Lockton. I was hesitant to get insurance per event when often I just go for the day (you pay for three days). The discount you receive with the multi-event makes it all good.

Ironically, the cost of the policy is almost what I paid for street coverage of my old track car.
I just signed up with Lockton for coverage at VIR next weekend. Found out that they no longer give a 15% discount for VIR events and on top of that now have a minimum insurance coverage amount no matter what your car is worth. So for the same car ($15,000 coverage) and same track (VIR), I am paying $43 more compared to last year.
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      02-28-2013, 04:28 PM   #56
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Does anyone know if Track Day insurance insures you and the other guy, if something were to happen with another car.
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      04-16-2013, 02:30 PM   #57
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Lockton's website says they provide no liability coverage. So I think if it's your "fault" and the other guy pursues you for the $$$ damages to his/her car, Lockton won't help you with that.

I have NO idea what liability laws have to say about track accidents. You'll sign a waiver that purports to get the track and the event sponsor off the hook, but I don't know what driver-driver civil litigation would be like.
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      04-16-2013, 02:44 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBasham View Post
Lockton's website says they provide no liability coverage. So I think if it's your "fault" and the other guy pursues you for the $$$ damages to his/her car, Lockton won't help you with that.

I have NO idea what liability laws have to say about track accidents. You'll sign a waiver that purports to get the track and the event sponsor off the hook, but I don't know what driver-driver civil litigation would be like.
I think you're right about the insurance. Regarding liability, there is only so much a waiver can do. It is a dick move to sue other drivers, because we all go out there knowing that a small mistake at speed could cause tragedy. That being said, various state courts have held that the waivers are ineffective as to willful/wanton/grossly negligent conduct etc., and damages have been awarded in civil litigation for HPDE drivers.

I bought insurance for one day total, and net is (~$400) in the hole. Oh well.
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      05-23-2013, 10:17 AM   #59
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Quote:
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I think you're right about the insurance. Regarding liability, there is only so much a waiver can do. It is a dick move to sue other drivers, because we all go out there knowing that a small mistake at speed could cause tragedy. That being said, various state courts have held that the waivers are ineffective as to willful/wanton/grossly negligent conduct etc., and damages have been awarded in civil litigation for HPDE drivers.

I bought insurance for one day total, and net is (~$400) in the hole. Oh well.
Just joined the forum after purchasing an E90 M3 and spotted this thread. My name is Ryan Staub, and I manage our motorsports team at Lockton. We started offering our HPDE Insurance Program in 2008...a couple years after (unfortunately) I totaled my E36 M3 that I had done 100+ HPDE days in. I built this program because this hobby is my passion in life - I've been doing DEs for 11 years, I'm the Chief Instructor for the Kansas City Chapter of BMW CCA, and I've club raced with SCCA and BMW CCA for years. If you ever have questions, suggestions, or need help, feel free to contact me. I'm happy to help, even if you're not doing business with my company.

"Porschefile" is spot on with his comment. Over the years I've seen a few situations where waivers didn't hold up and individuals took on liability for claims related to motorsport incidents. We're working on developing a policy to provide liability coverage for individuals, but I don't have a timeline at this point.

The other liability item most people don't think about is damage to the track. When you sign waivers, everyone is waiving their rights against everyone except the track doesn't waive their rights against you. Barber is notorious for billing drivers for damage to their barriers and I've even heard of bills for sod/landscaping. I'll be club racing with BMW CCA at COTA next month and they've made it abundantly clear that drivers are responsible for any damage they do to the track.

Have fun out there and keep the shiny side up!
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      05-27-2013, 05:46 PM   #60
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^^Awesome! Thanks for chiming in. If an accident happens and a claim is filed, is there any difference in procedure compared to conventional street insurance claims?
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      05-28-2013, 09:59 AM   #61
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^^Awesome! Thanks for chiming in. If an accident happens and a claim is filed, is there any difference in procedure compared to conventional street insurance claims?
We (Lockton) average about 2 weeks for a total loss - significantly faster than most street policies. The big difference is that we don't require you to use an "approved" body shop that we select...you choose where the car is fixed.

The other big difference is that since this is a specialty policy, the accident isn't reported the same as street accidents...so it doesn't go on your record and cause an increase in your street insurance premiums for years.
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      06-03-2013, 12:54 PM   #62
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We (Lockton) average about 2 weeks for a total loss - significantly faster than most street policies. The big difference is that we don't require you to use an "approved" body shop that we select...you choose where the car is fixed.

The other big difference is that since this is a specialty policy, the accident isn't reported the same as street accidents...so it doesn't go on your record and cause an increase in your street insurance premiums for years.
Thanks again for sharing the information. I did my first track day in my M3 a couple weeks ago with a local Caffeine and Gasoline group - it was such a small group (< 5 on track at a time) I didn't pick up any insurance, but I'm planning to for this weekend at Motorsport Ranch (w The Driver's Edge).

Maybe I'll see you on the track someday!
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      06-03-2013, 02:04 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottagofast13 View Post
Just joined the forum after purchasing an E90 M3 and spotted this thread. My name is Ryan Staub, and I manage our motorsports team at Lockton. We started offering our HPDE Insurance Program in 2008...a couple years after (unfortunately) I totaled my E36 M3 that I had done 100+ HPDE days in. I built this program because this hobby is my passion in life - I've been doing DEs for 11 years, I'm the Chief Instructor for the Kansas City Chapter of BMW CCA, and I've club raced with SCCA and BMW CCA for years. If you ever have questions, suggestions, or need help, feel free to contact me. I'm happy to help, even if you're not doing business with my company.

"Porschefile" is spot on with his comment. Over the years I've seen a few situations where waivers didn't hold up and individuals took on liability for claims related to motorsport incidents. We're working on developing a policy to provide liability coverage for individuals, but I don't have a timeline at this point.

The other liability item most people don't think about is damage to the track. When you sign waivers, everyone is waiving their rights against everyone except the track doesn't waive their rights against you. Barber is notorious for billing drivers for damage to their barriers and I've even heard of bills for sod/landscaping. I'll be club racing with BMW CCA at COTA next month and they've made it abundantly clear that drivers are responsible for any damage they do to the track.

Have fun out there and keep the shiny side up!
Thanks for self-identifying! Sorry to hear about the E36. Check out the demise of this E36 in the instructor group at a recent HDPE in Virginia:



A sad morning. You always hate to see something like that.
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      06-03-2013, 02:21 PM   #64
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Quote:
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Thanks again for sharing the information. I did my first track day in my M3 a couple weeks ago with a local Caffeine and Gasoline group - it was such a small group (< 5 on track at a time) I didn't pick up any insurance, but I'm planning to for this weekend at Motorsport Ranch (w The Driver's Edge).

Maybe I'll see you on the track someday!
The Driver's Edge is a great group! I'll be down in TX this weekend but at a different track - COTA. I'm instructing all weekend, racing in a friend's E30/S54 in the fun race on Friday and co-driving in the enduro on Sunday.

Quote:
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Thanks for self-identifying! Sorry to hear about the E36. Check out the demise of this E36 in the instructor group at a recent HDPE in Virginia:



A sad morning. You always hate to see something like that.
If you exchange dakar for arctic silver in that picture, it looks almost identical to what my E36 looked like after it was totaled. Whether you have insurance or not, it's really painful to lose your track car.
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      06-03-2013, 03:33 PM   #65
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The Driver's Edge is a great group! I'll be down in TX this weekend but at a different track - COTA. I'm instructing all weekend, racing in a friend's E30/S54 in the fun race on Friday and co-driving in the enduro on Sunday.
Can't wait to get to COTA one day (with my car) - I was there with two of my brothers for the F1 Grand Prix last year. What an amazing experience! It's great to continue hearing good things about Driver's Edge.

Have a great weekend. E30 + S54 =

Just now bought my coverage from Lockton. Additional benefit to buying used - only cost me $240, taxes and fees included. Definitely worth it for peace of mind, if nothing else.
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      06-22-2013, 06:53 AM   #66
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Been running with Lockton policies for a few years now... find that I'm a much more relaxed/better driver when I don't have to worry about a 50k mistake. Even with 60+ track days and countiing. Looking at picking up a multil event policy this year.

only cost me 125/weekend for my e46M3, and about 325/weekend for my e92M3. Worth every cent in my opinion after watching owners with liens on their cars get flat-bedded to the paddocks where they watch their cars get dropped on their chassis!
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