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      01-07-2013, 08:57 PM   #45
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This was done with just Magnaflow catback, removed secondaries and Vishnu Proceed Rev3 and Visnu PWM meth kit.
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      01-07-2013, 09:11 PM   #46
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This was done with just Magnaflow catback, removed secondaries and Vishnu Proceed Rev3 and Visnu PWM meth kit.
Didn't forget about you! Here's your charts in STD/SAE:

STD


SAE


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2011 M3 DCT

Modifications
Procede PWM + Methanol Injection (rev 3)
Secondary Cat Delete
Magnaflow Catback Exhaust
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      01-07-2013, 09:25 PM   #47
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Tom can you post my chats
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      01-07-2013, 10:10 PM   #48
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Thanks Tom, would also be nice to see what you feel is a typical representative before/after dyno w/ all bolt ons where is street legal (all stock cats on), i.e. with intake, pulley, tune, cat-back.
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      01-08-2013, 06:03 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by mhabs View Post
Thanks Tom, would also be nice to see what you feel is a typical representative before/after dyno w/ all bolt ons where is street legal (all stock cats on), i.e. with intake, pulley, tune, cat-back.
Average M3 should be seeing about ~25-30hp gains, depending on configuration and overall condition of engine (including software version).

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Tom can you post my chats
You have PM.
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      01-08-2013, 08:35 PM   #50
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I hate to repeat what others have said but how about we focus on charts that include a baseline (before and after) in "like" conditions. Dyno's are tools used for measuring gains and tuning after all not just for a who's is bigger competition.

Now our dyno does not read a stock S65 at 357+ whp like some of the others here does that mean its less powerful on the street? Of course not!

Stock vs Active Fbo Kit


Last edited by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke; 01-08-2013 at 09:47 PM.
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      01-10-2013, 08:56 AM   #51
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Tom - why do you use STD correction graphs? STD just inflates the numbers and is not a standard used by most manufacturers.

SAE and uncorrected are the only ones that matter.

It is essential to put up the conditions also on the above so we can make a judgement wether or not SAE is over or under correcting. Sometimes the uncorrected are more accurate.

This would be one of the only forums left now that is still looking at inflated STD graphs.

You also forget to put up the STD corrected graph with our tune.

Next - not aimed at Tom is that there is so much more to all of this than you may initially think.

The SAME car can put down different numbers on different days with the exact same weather conditions on these adaptive target driven DME's. Does anyone measure the inlet temps or looks at the negative or positive adaption for knock?
At the very least ignition timing through OBDII should be measured along with measured inlet temperature.

When we test on our dyno dynamics we make sure every before and after every change the variables are as close as they can be.

I have said this many times on forums and will say it again - without showing the conditions of the correction factor - the graphs are useless and should be ignored completely. Given how excellent the winpep7 software is there is no reason for the conditions not to be shown.

Last edited by Sal@Evolve; 01-10-2013 at 09:06 AM.
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      01-10-2013, 09:28 AM   #52
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EAS posted SAE graphs for each of the 7 dynos and also STD and Conditions for some of them.

I agree that SAE is the only dyno of interest to me, but you can back into SAE from STD -- SAE is about 97.5% of STD. As for datalogs with IAT and ignition timing and vanos activation and so forth, that would be nice, but you don't often see those accompanying the dyno.

Last edited by pbonsalb; 01-10-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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      01-10-2013, 09:57 AM   #53
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SAE and Uncorrected (not STD).

Uncorrected is very very important.
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      01-10-2013, 12:42 PM   #54
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Morning Sal, long time no speak.

Looking forward to seeing some dynos of your own!
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      01-10-2013, 12:42 PM   #55
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Uncorrected is important for tuning since it is the power you are actually making under the actual weather conditions. But people want comparable results that are standardized to certain conditions and SAE does that. If one guy is making 375 rwhp at the North Pole and another guy is making 325 rwhp at the Equator, it does not mean much to me if I am in neither of those two place. I want to see standardized results. This is why car makers report their engine horsepower and torque in a standardized format (SAE for the USA where I live).

While I like standardized results for comparison purposes, I agree they do not tell everything. If a car is knocking and retarding timing or breathing poorly due to extreme heat or bad gas or has old spark plugs or a clogged air filter or clogged cats or there is no dyno fan, the reasons for the poor performance won't be reflected in any standardized dyno format. I think this is why there is a significant variation among even SAE Dynojets of the same make and model car.
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      01-10-2013, 01:45 PM   #56
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I cant think of any other reason to post an STD graph in 2013 but to show off. I've said it before STD graphs only confuse people and give them a false reality of the true whp these cars can make with bolt on's..

Its time for change
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      01-10-2013, 02:18 PM   #57
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It is called marketing to a huge potential client base. Keep it real AA




Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
I cant think of any other reason to post an STD graph in 2013 but to show off. I've said it before STD graphs only confuse people and give them a false reality of the true whp these cars can make with bolt on's..

Its time for change
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      01-10-2013, 02:36 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower
It is called marketing to a huge potential client base. Keep it real AA




Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
I cant think of any other reason to post an STD graph in 2013 but to show off. I've said it before STD graphs only confuse people and give them a false reality of the true whp these cars can make with bolt on's..

Its time for change
+1 I've never posted an STD chart and never will. It's just to inflate numbers and give an impression which is simply not realistic. People are drawn too much to smoke and mirrors. By hey, advertising is a big business right?

Sal asked a very valid question which remains unanswered.

IAT's are a Very large contributing factor. I will post more on this when not on mobile.
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      01-10-2013, 03:03 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
+1 I've never posted an STD chart and never will. It's just to inflate numbers and give an impression which is simply not realistic. People are drawn too much to smoke and mirrors. By hey, advertising is a big business right?

Sal asked a very valid question which remains unanswered.

IAT's are a Very large contributing factor. I will post more on this when not on mobile.
I'm with you Mike!
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      01-10-2013, 03:07 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
+1 I've never posted an STD chart and never will. It's just to inflate numbers and give an impression which is simply not realistic. People are drawn too much to smoke and mirrors. By hey, advertising is a big business right?

Sal asked a very valid question which remains unanswered.

IAT's are a Very large contributing factor. I will post more on this when not on mobile.
Looking forward to it. There aren't many BPM dynos posted to validate results, I'm others are interested as well when making their decision.

Please post dynojet numbers when possible, or send some BPM tuned M3s our way and we'll datalog for you and post results (with their permission).
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      01-10-2013, 03:10 PM   #61
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STD is only about 2.5% more than SAE, which is about 10 rwhp on a 400 rwhp dyno. It is not a gross inflation so it is not grossly misleading.

I agree that STD is not very common, but I would also say that to the uninformed, an UNCORRECTED chart could also be misleading since the uninformed often are comparing to SAE and an uncorrected chart could be 4% higher depending on the weather conditions. The uninformed don't know enough to relate the uncorrected chart to an SAE (or STD chart).

I agree that since SAE are the most commonly reported in the US, I like to see that standardization. I also like to see Dynojet results since they are the most commonly reported dynos in the US. For a Dynapack or Dyno Dynamics or Mustang or other dyno to have any use to me, I have to see a delta showing pre and post mod results or I have to see a bunch of results on the Dynapack or Dyno Dynamics or Mustang for the make and model in question so I can get an idea how they do on that dyno. Comparing a Dynapack or Dyno Dynamics or Mustang result to a Dynojet result is often challenging despite claims by tuners that their dyno "usually reads x percent lower than a Dynojet."

The dynodatabase maintained by Pencilgeek is pretty useful for comparing, since it reports a number of different dynos and you can cull results.

http://www.s65dynos.com/
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      01-10-2013, 03:13 PM   #62
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Tom vs. Sal vs. Mike

who will win.....

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      01-10-2013, 03:16 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3 View Post
Tom vs. Sal vs. Mike

who will win.....

Please don't let it come off as this way, as it's not intended to at all.

We're always interested in gaining information from all aspects out there, the dyno is simply there to validate marketing vs real world results - no matter what brand.
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      01-10-2013, 03:21 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Please don't let it come off as this way, as it's not intended to at all.

We're always interested in gaining information from all aspects out there, the dyno is simply there to validate marketing vs real world results - no matter what brand.
i know. as an outside perspective trying to learn myself, this is all useful. im just trying to be funny
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      01-10-2013, 10:52 PM   #65
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Wow I've learned some stuff in this thread.
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      01-10-2013, 10:58 PM   #66
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Really like all the info you guys put out....it's really helpful to the community

Quote:
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We're always interested in gaining information from all aspects out there, the dyno is simply there to validate marketing vs real world results - no matter what brand.
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