BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Wheels + Tires Sponsored by The Tire Rack
  TireRack

KEEP M3POST ALIVE BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER LINK!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-08-2013, 06:16 PM   #1
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
14

 
Drives: e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 483
iTrader: (0)

AG m359+Vredestein = Front Tire Rubbing! HELP!!!

Hey all,

I just had new Vred tires installed on Avant Garde m359 wheels. The wheels are 19x9, 18 mm offset, and 19x10, 25 mm offset. The tires are 255/35/19 and 275/35/19, respectively. The fronts are rubbing when turning the steering wheel 90 degrees or so while the backs are perfect. I replaced the OEM m220s, which have a 29 mm offset in the front, so things SHOULD be fine. The new fronts look like they are sticking out significantly more than the m220 wheels, despite a total of a 1 mm difference in lateral stance. The tires fit the wheels fine...and it seems that many people on this forum have this same setup with no problems.

Anyone have this problem or have suggestions as to how to fix this? I am at Performance Plus in Long Beach at the moment and the techs seem confused...a bad sign.

Thanks!
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 07:06 PM   #2
BMW Fanatic
Banned
Canada
114

 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary


Posts: 3,314
iTrader: (11)

Do you have your rears on the front? Lol, I'm being serious which is the sad thing..
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 07:14 PM   #3
urBan_dK
First Lieutenant
United_States
12

 
urBan_dK's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Mill Creek, WA


Posts: 365
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Are you lowered? These tires are wider, your wheels stick out a bit more, and the tires are about 1% taller.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 07:19 PM   #4
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
14

 
Drives: e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 483
iTrader: (0)

I checked personally...the fronts are on the front. That was my first guess too!

I am not lowered. Stock 2010 m3 setup for the suspension.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 07:22 PM   #5
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
14

 
Drives: e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 483
iTrader: (0)

Here are some pics I just snapped of the setup...anything look funny?

The fronts look about 1/4 - 1/2" further out than the rears.
Attached Images
    
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 07:32 PM   #6
M3SQRD
Colonel
United_States
25

 
M3SQRD's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3s, R56 Cooper S
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: EC


Posts: 2,479
iTrader: (2)

Your new F 9ET18 sticks out (front spacing) ~0.70" more than the 220M 8.5ET29 - equivalent to running an 18 mm spacer with the 220M F wheel
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 07:38 PM   #7
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
14

 
Drives: e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 483
iTrader: (0)

I guess I just don't understand the spacings. If the original offset was 29 and I go to 18, that's 11 mm (~.43"). The wheel width increased 0.5" from 8.5 to 9. That doesn't mean a net change of 0.07" (1.7 mm)?

Last edited by Nordstat; 01-08-2013 at 07:48 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 07:48 PM   #8
calintexas
Major
United_States
24

 
calintexas's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Texas


Posts: 1,416
iTrader: (1)

The various manufacturers have a slightly different take on the actual size of a given tire. Some have squarer shoulders and some are more rounded. The sizing even varies between the various tire models of a given manufacturer. A lot of guys that did the RAC (19x9 +22 front) group buy used 255/35 x 19 Vred Ultrac Sessantas on the front. Some complained of rubbing, and many said they had no issues. There's a photo of my car that shows a mild rub point at the RH front at the following link: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...47&postcount=5. Other people had issues at the LH rear. I think that It's possibly due to body tolerances in the wheel well.

You can try adjusting the plastic fender liner. It's likely though that what you have is what you have. M3SORD is correct about your offset. You've pushed the tire out 17.3 mm or about 0.7".
__________________

Last edited by calintexas; 01-08-2013 at 07:58 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 07:55 PM   #9
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
14

 
Drives: e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 483
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by calintexas View Post
The various manufacturers have a slightly different take on the actual size of a given tire. Some have squarer shoulders and some are more rounded. The sizing even varies between the various tire models of a given manufacturer. A lot of guys that did the RAC (19x9 +22 front) group buy used 255/35 x 19 Vred Ultrac Sessantas on the front. Some complained of rubbing, and many said they had no issues. There's a photo of my car that shows a mild rub point at the RH front at the following link: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...47&postcount=5. Other people had issues at the LH rear. I think that It's possibly due to body tolerances in the wheel well.

You can try adjusting the plastic fender liner. It's likely though that what you have is what you have.
Thanks for the input.

Have you had any problems resulting from the rubbing? Would you be comfortable tracking the car?
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 07:56 PM   #10
sensi09
Lieutenant Colonel
18

 
Drives: .
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: socal


Posts: 1,766
iTrader: (1)

There's a handy dandy calculator on the top of the page on the 3 series wheel/tire forum http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12

"5mm MORE clearance on the strut side, and the outside edge of the wheel will EXTEND an extra 17mm"
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 08:00 PM   #11
M3SQRD
Colonel
United_States
25

 
M3SQRD's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3s, R56 Cooper S
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: EC


Posts: 2,479
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordstat View Post
I guess I just don't understand the spacings. If the original offset was 29 and I go to 18, that's 11 mm (~.43"). The wheel width increased 0.5" from 8.5 to 9. That doesn't mean a net change of 0.07" (1.7 mm)?
The offset is the distance between the wheel mounting face and wheel centerline. Switching from an 8.5et29 to a 9et18 does indeed move the F rim of the new wheel out 0.70" (not 0.07") relative to the old wheel.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 08:02 PM   #12
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
14

 
Drives: e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 483
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sensi09 View Post
There's a handy dandy calculator on the top of the page on the 3 series wheel/tire forum http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12

"5mm MORE clearance on the strut side, and the outside edge of the wheel will EXTEND an extra 17mm"
HAHAHA well that explains it I guess! Thanks for the calc link.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 08:06 PM   #13
Z K
Colonel
United_States
36

 
Z K's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 2,147
iTrader: (3)

As others have mentioned, the offset is out 11mm more and the wheel is 1/2 inch wider than before. That makes the front wheel stick out significantly more. Plus you are running a wider and taller tire.

If you went with the stock 245/35 front tire, you might be ok.. but the larger tire + more negative offset means the wheels stick out more.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 08:16 PM   #14
calintexas
Major
United_States
24

 
calintexas's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Texas


Posts: 1,416
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordstat View Post
Thanks for the input.

Have you had any problems resulting from the rubbing? Would you be comfortable tracking the car?
My rub is very slight and only occurs at full lock. It hasn't been an issue. I haven't tracked my car, but a friend here in the DFW area with the same setup (and a slightly worse rub at the same point) has tracked his car without issue. You do have 4 mm less offset (tire sticks out more) which makes your situation a bit different than ours. I'm going to guess if you only rub at full lock that you will be fine. There are lots of guys that have rubbed through their wheel well liners at a couple of tight points
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 08:22 PM   #15
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
14

 
Drives: e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 483
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by calintexas View Post
My rub is very slight and only occurs at full lock. It hasn't been an issue. I haven't tracked my car, but a friend here in the DFW area with the same setup (and a slightly worse rub at the same point) has tracked his car without issue. You do have 4 mm less offset (tire sticks out more) which makes your situation a bit different than ours. I'm going to guess if you only rub at full lock that you will be fine. There are lots of guys that have rubbed through their wheel well liners at a couple of tight points
Scary thought...

The guys here are trying to heat-gun and bend the plastic liner a bit to avoid the rubbing. I will get used to the wheel spacing. I think I would rather have a lightly more protruding front wheel than add a rear spacer and mess with the geometry of the amazing M suspension.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 11:26 PM   #16
Dave07997S
Colonel
60

 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3 ZCP Coupe
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Playa del Rey, CA


Posts: 2,544
iTrader: (1)

Some other posts have pretty much hit up the response which could have several answers. The ET18s are pretty aggressive, my 255/35/19s are 26.1" tall and I don't rub but I am on the OEM ZCP wheels which have a ET31mm front not ET18. Unfortunately can't find any data on the Vredestein as far as the overall diameter. So combination of height and offsets..

It will probably be an on issue after awhile as the tire will wear and won't hit afterwards.

Dave
__________________
2013 M3 Coupe-MR/BLK ZCP, ACM test pipes, BPM Stg2 dev. tune and Megan catback, AFE Stg2. with C/F elbow
Previous rides: 2011 M3 Coupe-MR/Blk
2007 Porsche 997C2S Speed Yellow/Blk sport seats
2004 BMW M3 Imola/Blk
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 11:27 PM   #17
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
14

 
Drives: e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 483
iTrader: (0)

UPDATE: so I drove home tonight and the tires rub significantly during normal right and left turns. I will check the liners and post pics, but I don't think this is minor rubbing. It actually doesn't rub at full lock, but about 2/3 the way to full lock and for a decent amount of the steering wheel turn-through.

Do I need to drop the fronts to 245's instead of the 255's? Would that be enough to fix the problem?

Thanks.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 11:41 PM   #18
GregW / Oregon
Commander-In-Chief
United_States
222

 
Drives: 2015 M4 Coupe, 2012 ML350
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR


Posts: 7,608
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordstat View Post
UPDATE: so I drove home tonight and the tires rub significantly during normal right and left turns. I will check the liners and post pics, but I don't think this is minor rubbing. It actually doesn't rub at full lock, but about 2/3 the way to full lock and for a decent amount of the steering wheel turn-through.

Do I need to drop the fronts to 245's instead of the 255's? Would that be enough to fix the problem?

Thanks.
Or shave the wheel hub?
__________________

Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA
2015 M4 Coupe - Silverstone/Sakhir/CF
2012 ML350
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 11:48 PM   #19
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
14

 
Drives: e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 483
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Or shave the wheel hub?
That scares me too. I track the car occasionally and since the wheel hub is only ~13 - 16 mm as is, that is playing with fire. Im going to call performance plus tomorrow and try to exchange the tires.

According to a tire diameter calculator, going from 255 --> 245 would result in a diameter reduction of just under 7 mm, which should be more than enough to give the tire clearance in the wheel well.

I dont see TOO many negatives going with a 245 / 275 setup. Not stock offset, but not horrible...
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2013, 10:27 AM   #20
a burrito
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
46

 
Drives: '14 W212 AMG S, '12 958 S
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Irvine, CA


Posts: 1,931
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to a burrito
I had 255/35/19 AD08's on my front OEM ZCP's with a 10MM Spacer which made the front offset at ET21. I rubbed the same way you talk about; at 3/4 left or right and you get the loud "brrrrrrrrp" sound of rubbing. Now I know the ad08's run much more square and wider than other tires but the fact is you are going with a wider and taller tire.

I got so annoyed with the sound i went down to 245/35/19 ad08's and I have stopped rubbing since. The 245 ad08's are quite a bit more grippier than the ps2's i had on stock so I am quite happy with the performance. The 255's felt kind of numb in comparison with the 245's so that is another reason why I'm happy to be back on 245's.
__________________
Peanut Butter Chunky

AD08. Akra. Huper Optik. KW V3. Macht Schnell. RE SSK. TMS.
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2013, 09:39 PM   #21
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
14

 
Drives: e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 483
iTrader: (0)

So I replaced the fronts with 245's and there is absolutely NO rubbing. YAY! And I have begun to love the aggressive offset.

Too bad the powder coating is already chipping and they need to be redone (see my other thread).

Thanks for the help!
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 01:10 PM   #22
kerkiraios00
Lieutenant
United_States
16

 
kerkiraios00's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 Jerez E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Queens,NY


Posts: 471
iTrader: (0)

So what was the cause of your rubbing?? The offset?? Bc I ordered my front wheels 19x9.0 ET 22 and ill looking to get PSS in 255/35? You think I'd rub?
__________________
11 E90 M3 Jerez BLK Metallic | EXT FOX RED NL | ZCP | MEISTERSCHAFT GT | LUX H8 V4 | HRE P43SC

07 JEEP PATRIOT LIMITED BLK- STU COILS 2.5' lift- 16' MOAB WHEELS
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:27 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST