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      01-05-2013, 11:37 AM   #23
Mike Benvo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Smith View Post
I've used Epic (Randy Mueller) for all tuning on my E46 M3 that has won NASA Nationals for the past 2 years. His tuning knowledge on BMW's is unmatched IMO, and his customer service is awesome.
I tried others, but no one came close to getting the power out of the car that Randy could. Not sure why Epic isn't as popular with the S65, but he has consistently achieved higher dyno numbers on S54's compared to other tuners.
I'm building an E92 M3 race car now, and no doubt, Randy will do the tuning on that too.
That's great - but it's not all about numbers. You can make dyno queens pretty easily on these cars by desensitizing knock sensors and changing a few other parameters around. It will hold the power for the dyno runs but won't be there for much longer. Ask Sal@eVolve if you don't believe me, he'll tell you. Especially true on the E46 M3 and E60 M5 from my experience. There are different tuning philosophies - to me, safety and reliability are the two most important things. Drive-ability and smoothness are third and forth. Power and torque are important but should not be the primary focus if they outweigh the other factors. There is always a point of diminished returns.

People need to stop focusing on particular numbers, it's a pointless exercise!

Here's the last dyno of my car (although this is a hub dyno so it will read higher):

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      01-05-2013, 11:40 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
As much as many of us want to hit that 400whp NA Benchmark, I would try to focus more so on the change in power. These E9X M3s dyno stock very inconsistently throughout the world and for various reasons. When stock, there is evidence of stock E9X M3s having such a wide range of results all on the same type of dyno in similar conditions, but chances are they perform nearly identical.

I would roughly estimate that a primary cat delete, pulleys, intake, and a proper tune (Epic, Evolve, ESS, or BPM) would yield roughly 40-50+whp.
This.
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      01-05-2013, 12:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Smith View Post
I've used Epic (Randy Mueller) for all tuning on my E46 M3 that has won NASA Nationals for the past 2 years. His tuning knowledge on BMW's is unmatched IMO, and his customer service is awesome.
I tried others, but no one came close to getting the power out of the car that Randy could. Not sure why Epic isn't as popular with the S65, but he has consistently achieved higher dyno numbers on S54's compared to other tuners.
I'm building an E92 M3 race car now, and no doubt, Randy will do the tuning on that too.
I totally missed this post!!

I just wanted to testify as well about the work of Epic Motorsports. Although I do not have his tune or any of the other products he sells, I am a VERY big fan of his work. Randy has tuned many of my friends cars, both street and race cars. To say the least, he works some serious magic pulling out nice power from these cars, especially via the MSS54 DME.

I hope his tune becomes another well known option here within the E92 M3 community. With his racing pedigree and tuning history, I am sure his tune will be another one of the top choices! It says a lot when many of the NASA GTS podium cars are running his tune.

J Smith, I cannot wait to see you complete your E92. Hearing from Martin on a regular basis on how much he loves the E46, is true evidence not only of your skill as a driver, but as a race car builder! Keep up the great work along with all your partners involved in your new build!
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      01-05-2013, 12:33 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Randy Mueller (Epic Motorsports) is a very well-respected name in the BMW Motorsport community. We have had excellent results in the ESS E-Flash as well.

Here's an example we dynoed with a member using Evolve software:

Is that mine Tom?
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      01-05-2013, 01:49 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Limey View Post
Is that mine Tom?
Yes sir it is!
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      01-05-2013, 01:54 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by kaiv View Post
I guess I am part of the club although I wasn't going for any particular number, I just wanted to squeeze a few ponies from my engine

Far from being a dyno queen, I might add.

[/quote]

Loved seeing you rip it up out there.
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      01-05-2013, 02:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
I hope his tune becomes another well known option here within the E92 M3 community. With his racing pedigree and tuning history, I am sure his tune will be another one of the top choices! It says a lot when many of the NASA GTS podium cars are running his tune.
Exactly. Randy knows these BMW engines so well, and personally puts his products through rigorous testing on the racetrack to make sure his customers are getting the best product available for wherever they may be using them (on the street or track).


Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
J Smith, I cannot wait to see you complete your E92. Hearing from Martin on a regular basis on how much he loves the E46, is true evidence not only of your skill as a driver, but as a race car builder! Keep up the great work along with all your partners involved in your new build!
Thanks man. I'm pretty excited about the E92. Should be awesome!
And yeah, Martin is having a blast with the E46. And I love it when he brings me down to VIR for coaching because then I get to still drive it.
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      01-05-2013, 02:37 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiv
I guess I am part of the club although I wasn't going for any particular number, I just wanted to squeeze a few ponies from my engine

Are you the same guy that used to track a LSB e46 m3, IIRC?
If so, I didn't know that you switch to the e9x platform.


Either way, it looks like randy is doing nice work with the s65 as well.
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      01-05-2013, 07:28 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
That's great - but it's not all about numbers. You can make dyno queens pretty easily on these cars by desensitizing knock sensors and changing a few other parameters around. It will hold the power for the dyno runs but won't be there for much longer.
Understood, but not Randy's/Epic's style. At all. And not great form from you if you're implying it is.
Epic tuned race cars leave the dyno and go directly to the track and kill it. I can pull up results if you want. No dyno queens are going to last weekend after weekend on the race track and win national championships.
My S54 was tuned by Randy over 2 years ago and raced hard since then. It was just re-tuned a month ago because the new owner added a CSL intake. Still making incredible power still for an internally stock S54. Dyno queen....I think not.
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      01-05-2013, 08:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Smith View Post
Understood, but not Randy's/Epic's style. At all. And not great form from you if you're implying it is.
Epic tuned race cars leave the dyno and go directly to the track and kill it. I can pull up results if you want. No dyno queens are going to last weekend after weekend on the race track and win national championships.
My S54 was tuned by Randy over 2 years ago and raced hard since then. It was just re-tuned a month ago because the new owner added a CSL intake. Still making incredible power still for an internally stock S54. Dyno queen....I think not.
Don't think that was his intent at all. It's ok, breathe... No need to be so sensitiive
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      01-05-2013, 08:21 PM   #33
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eh who cares about the street legality. an officer isnt gonna look under the 80k car to look at whether there are test pipes, akra, oem, etc..and if he does, then he'll get a head ache from all the carbon monoxide and emmissions and in court all ill have to say is "he was confused and not in a normal state of mind" and itll get thrown out
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      01-05-2013, 10:59 PM   #34
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I wasn't trying to imply anything. I know nothing about him so to make any specific statements would be unfounded. It sounds like he does great work.

However, I'm weary when people say that "X consistently makes more than Y and Z". There is only so much you can safely extract from an NA motor, period. Race cars are frequently rebuilt, right?
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      01-05-2013, 11:55 PM   #35
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Besides headers theres dinan bored out throttle bodies and schrick cams. Those mods probably won't net too much hp but could make the difference if you're looking for a specific number while staying NA. Vishnu meth is also an option.
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      01-06-2013, 02:07 AM   #36
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I'd be curious to see a 400+whp dyno jet chart
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      01-06-2013, 03:04 AM   #37
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I'd be curious to see a 400+whp dyno jet chart
Me too! I'm hungry
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      01-06-2013, 09:23 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBoostedBMWM3 View Post
Are you the same guy that used to track a LSB e46 m3, IIRC?
If so, I didn't know that you switch to the e9x platform.


Either way, it looks like randy is doing nice work with the s65 as well.
Yup that's me!

And yes, Randy is a great guy but the big power adders are the MS intake, pullies and test pipes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
I'd be curious to see a 400+whp dyno jet chart
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Originally Posted by biglare View Post
Me too! I'm hungry
Reading the thread before posting would be a good start!
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      01-06-2013, 11:54 PM   #39
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Hey Tom, can you put up my dyno sheet with this one you posted earlier. My car had Magnaflow catback, removed secondary cats and the proceed tune/meth kit. My car is street legal since the cats are still in place.
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      01-07-2013, 01:40 PM   #40
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      01-07-2013, 01:46 PM   #41
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      01-07-2013, 04:21 PM   #42
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EAS, thanks for posting a great collection of dynos. Epic, Evolve, GIAC, ESS tunes and a various collections of the usual mods.
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      01-07-2013, 07:35 PM   #43
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EAS, thanks for posting a great collection of dynos. Epic, Evolve, GIAC, ESS tunes and a various collections of the usual mods.
Exactly the point! There's a large number of tuners out there to choose from, the key point is choosing the correct parts to achieve that maximum power.

Here's another example:

STD


SAE


Vehicle
2008 M3 6MT

Modifications
RPI Race Exhaust (no cats)
Macht Schnell Performance Underdrive Pulleys
Macht Schnell Stage 2 Intake
231E software (no flash)

Note there is no tune at all, simply an update to 231E (was previously on 080E).
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      01-07-2013, 08:07 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Exactly the point! There's a large number of tuners out there to choose from, the key point is choosing the correct parts to achieve that maximum power.

Here's another example:

STD
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8218/8...5ff9159b_o.jpg

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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8216/8...7f2c9e1e_o.jpg

Vehicle
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Modifications
RPI Race Exhaust (no cats)
Macht Schnell Performance Underdrive Pulleys
Macht Schnell Stage 2 Intake
231E software (no flash)

Note there is no tune at all, simply an update to 231E (was previously on 080E).
This is a great post Tom for a few reasons.

1) It goes to show how darn good the MSS60 DME is in responding to drastic modifications (ie. primary cat delete).
2) It also again shows how wide the spectrum is of dyno results and shows how it's rather challenging to compare car to car even though on the same dyno.

Keep up the great dyno posts Tom!
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