BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > New and Preowned M3 Pricing, Ordering, Tracking / European Delivery / Dealer Reviews
 
Stick to Clutch
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-05-2013, 09:38 PM   #1
NHman
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 M3 MR ZCP DCT
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorthEast

Posts: 452
iTrader: (0)

So I tried to place an order today for an M3 coupe

I believe in working with the local companies whenever possible. While I am familiar with the forum sponsors here, I thought that if I could develop a relationship with the CA and by extension the dealership, it could help me going forward. I was up-front stating that I have a good understanding on how the buying process works. Should I decide to lease, I also know how to calculate lease payments and have access to the core information (residual, m.f., acq fee, etc). Simple, I'll treat you (the CA) with professional courtesy and provide me with the same. No games or guesswork. Just provide me with a buy price not including incentives, amount for doc fees and whether I would be paying base on the acquisition fee and money factor (should I lease). Simple or so I thought.

Per the CA's preference, I sent him a spreadsheet with my configuration on a M3 coupe. Essentially loaded with an MSRP of $74,995 and invoice of $69,045. My question, what is my buy price? Response, "MSRP that we get from the build sheet time 93% is your invoice and your price". OK, so therefore you'll sell me the car for $69,745? "Not exactly, 7% is an average mark-up and that is what we use for the price". Further, "Once the order is placed we can show you the invoice we pay and that will be your price". Say what. Why would the numbers change unless the factory puts through an increase which, IMO, is unlikely on a vehicle in the waning months of production. "Well come in and we'll work something out. We want your business". Really?? Well, just give me a real number. It shouldn't require a site visit.

Sorry for the long rant but in my mind this should be simple. Based on a set configuration the values are known. Due to the time-frame (delivery to PCD in May), factory provided incentives and lease programs can not be locked-in. I understand that. It should be today I'll sell you the M3 for X. In addition we charge Y for fees. Any available incentives will be applied to lower X. Simple.

I go through this sales process with the CA knowing that I am buying two vehicles. A M3 for me and X3 for my wife. I sometimes preach to others to remove any emotion out of the process. However, I can see how this can be difficult. End rant.

I know there are good CA's and by extension dealerships out there. From reading the forums, there are good ones associated with this site. I believe that will be my best path forward especially where both vehicles will be via PCD.
NHman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-05-2013, 09:54 PM   #2
Darth One
Former yr 1of1 owner
 
Darth One's Avatar
 
Drives: SGM E90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL

Posts: 1,109
iTrader: (0)

Is there a tl;dr version?
Darth One is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-05-2013, 10:04 PM   #3
kokopuffs405
Yup
 
kokopuffs405's Avatar
 
Drives: 14F10M5
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Maryland

Posts: 615
iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2013 BMW  [0.00]
He is just trying to be upfront with you , BMW does have an invoice that is around 7% , he even goes further by saying he will show you what bmw is charging the dealer when you place the order.

He can't control what BMW charges for invoice so he doesn't want you to be mad if something changes and its not his fault.

When a dealer builds a vehicle than it shows the true "invoice" / "wholesale" . 7% is just a estimate that dealers across the nation use
__________________
Oh hello
kokopuffs405 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-05-2013, 10:34 PM   #4
TheDeliverator
First Lieutenant
 
TheDeliverator's Avatar
 
Drives: A Singularity
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MD

Posts: 393
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 BMW M3  [0.00]
Use the configurator from bmwconfig.com

http://bmwconfig.com/BmwConfig/Config.aspx

It will help you figure out what invoice actually is, etc...

If you want a price close to invoice I recommend one of the known M salesmen\women known on the forum. PM me if you want info on my experience.
__________________

V1C / Bel STiR+ / Integrated mirror display / AD08r f255/35 r275/35
/ IND Euro Bumper / MP Splitters / MP Steering Wheel
TheDeliverator is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 12:32 AM   #5
White 13
Private First Class
 
Drives: A 2013 Alpine White E92
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: N Cal

Posts: 114
iTrader: (0)

Invoice price can to be a moving target. MSRP is not. Get price down (or up) from that. It is the price that you are willing to offer that is important.
White 13 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 12:40 AM   #6
MRSSIIM3
General
 
MRSSIIM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boston

Posts: 1,195
iTrader: (5)

i just got mine from a bimmer dealer in northeast. pm me for details. or bmw norwell in massachusetts. ask for greg dolabany
__________________
Current: 2013 E92 M3, SSII, Black extended, ZCP, fully loaded
Mods: Black Hood Vents, Black Grilles, Black Side Grilles, Lux H8 v. 4.0, CF Mirrors, CF Spoiler, Black ///M Emblem, Evolve Tune, Dinan CF Intake, Dinan Pulley, Akrapovic GT4
Retired: 2011.5 E92 M3, SSII
MRSSIIM3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 01:25 AM   #7
Ghetto2315
Major
 
Drives: Like I Stole It...
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The REAL Jersey Shore

Posts: 1,242
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Really???
Ghetto2315 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 03:56 AM   #8
Bimmr7
Private
 
Drives: 13 E92 M3/11 328i
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sunny California

Posts: 80
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 BMW M3  [0.00]
2011 BMW 328  [0.00]
2010 BMW 335 M Sport  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto2315 View Post
Really???


+1
Bimmr7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 05:37 AM   #9
NHman
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 M3 MR ZCP DCT
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorthEast

Posts: 452
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeliverator View Post
Use the configurator from bmwconfig.com

http://bmwconfig.com/BmwConfig/Config.aspx

It will help you figure out what invoice actually is, etc...

If you want a price close to invoice I recommend one of the known M salesmen\women known on the forum. PM me if you want info on my experience.
I am familiar with BmwConfig and did use it with my build and creating of the spreadsheet. Thanks though for the info.
NHman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 05:48 AM   #10
NHman
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 M3 MR ZCP DCT
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorthEast

Posts: 452
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
Is there a tl;dr version?
No, I went with the unedited version.

Summary, what's my buy price? CA, 7% above invoice. Can you give me an actual number? CA, no but place an order and you'll know. Oh.
NHman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 07:05 AM   #11
Stronghammer
Lieutenant
 
Stronghammer's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: south carolina

Posts: 580
iTrader: (2)

I used to think like you, never again. I tried asking simple questions to two CA's at two dealerships. Got the same stupid answers from both. "Come in, sit down, lets talk". So I sent my specs to a bimmerfest board sponsor. Got numbers back in a few hours instead of words. I bought from him the next day. If you want to skip all the BS, PM me and I will tell you who I used. PCD was fun, really glad I did it
__________________
2011 E92 M3 MR July 11 ED Sept 11 PCD
Mods: ESS VT1, MS test pipes, 19 BBS CH-R, Eibach pro springs, Painted reflectors, carbon fiber grills, Painted side markers with dark tinted lenses, 30% tint, Arkym rear diffuser, Innotech axle back exhaust, Performance spoiler
Stronghammer is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 08:45 AM   #12
Class-of-2013
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Driver's Seat

Posts: 225
iTrader: (0)

Sent you PM.
Class-of-2013 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 10:06 AM   #13
NHman
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 M3 MR ZCP DCT
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorthEast

Posts: 452
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stronghammer View Post
I used to think like you, never again. I tried asking simple questions to two CA's at two dealerships. Got the same stupid answers from both. "Come in, sit down, lets talk". So I sent my specs to a bimmerfest board sponsor. Got numbers back in a few hours instead of words. I bought from him the next day. If you want to skip all the BS, PM me and I will tell you who I used. PCD was fun, really glad I did it
I am going to give the CA another opportunity but without the site visit. It should be simply enough, here's my configuration, what is the price.

Sorry for the long rant when I opened the tread. I was tired and rambled on a bit. But the bottom line message is the same, simply trying to get a price.

I'll provide an update later on.
NHman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 10:50 AM   #14
cSurf
Captain
 
cSurf's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New England

Posts: 848
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHman View Post
I am going to give the CA another opportunity but without the site visit. It should be simply enough, here's my configuration, what is the price.

Sorry for the long rant when I opened the tread. I was tired and rambled on a bit. But the bottom line message is the same, simply trying to get a price.

I'll provide an update later on.
I'm not sure who you went with - but I can empathize. I went to three dealers in my area (RI and MA) and the only number they were willing to discuss was the monthly payment.

Instead I've moved my business to the crew at Steve Thomas. Jimmy and Francesca have been exceptionally responsive, honest and transparent. I'd recommend that you reach out.

Either way, good luck with your search.
cSurf is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 11:00 AM   #15
My E90
Captain
 
Drives: '13 E92 M3 6MT SSII
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Floorida

Posts: 757
iTrader: (2)

The best car deals I've gotten were always negotiated via email. Just did this with my M3 through David Aviles and a month ago through a semi-local dealer for my wife's X3.

I always give the local dealers a chance but it's usually more headache than it's worth because Miami dealers will NOT negotiate. Put together a reasonable offer using the online tools that we have and start emailing. First person to say, "I can do that", gets the business.

My local dealer's service department provides loaner cars regardless of where the car was purchased and I love going to the Performance Center... win-win!
__________________
'13 M3 E92 SSII | 6MT | ZCP | ZPP | EPS | NAV | MPE | ED & PCD
My E90 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2013, 11:07 AM   #16
JulieDriving
Female driving enthusiast :P
 
JulieDriving's Avatar
 
Drives: Bimmer
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 2,308
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Hey, I can sympathize. While my experience with my M3 purchase (locally) was exemplary, we are currently trying to buy another vehicle from another brand (3rd vehicle).

The experience felt like "old tactics" vs. "new reality". The new reality at least of how to deal with informed consumers - and serious customers - who have done their homework.

My BMW dealership is current with the new reality, and sealed our M3 deal over email quickly.

This other brand's dealership, following email discussions that have not succeeded, wants us to come in......... So we can do what? Sit and wait outside the "manager's office" while they try to move numbers around to try to get the original number they were seeking? Or worse, try to wear us down with arguments and get us to feel like we wasted our time if we came in and went away with nothing? That's old school.

It's because of the dealerships who have offered such great deals that other (not so great) dealerships offer to go lower.

I like giving local CA's/dealership a chance too. But when they don't take it, then I like to reward those dealerships who made it possible in the first place for us to have a Plan B that we can go to. A Plan B that is often fiscally advantageous to our Plan A anyways.
__________________
2013 M3 coupe (Azurite Black, Black, Piano Black)
+ miata nut (2 miatas) + Mk6 GTI 5-door hatch (our mini-SUV )
JulieDriving is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-07-2013, 06:53 AM   #17
NHman
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 M3 MR ZCP DCT
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorthEast

Posts: 452
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieDriving View Post
Hey, I can sympathize. While my experience with my M3 purchase (locally) was exemplary, we are currently trying to buy another vehicle from another brand (3rd vehicle).

The experience felt like "old tactics" vs. "new reality". The new reality at least of how to deal with informed consumers - and serious customers - who have done their homework.

My BMW dealership is current with the new reality, and sealed our M3 deal over email quickly.

This other brand's dealership, following email discussions that have not succeeded, wants us to come in......... So we can do what? Sit and wait outside the "manager's office" while they try to move numbers around to try to get the original number they were seeking? Or worse, try to wear us down with arguments and get us to feel like we wasted our time if we came in and went away with nothing? That's old school.

It's because of the dealerships who have offered such great deals that other (not so great) dealerships offer to go lower.

I like giving local CA's/dealership a chance too. But when they don't take it, then I like to reward those dealerships who made it possible in the first place for us to have a Plan B that we can go to. A Plan B that is often fiscally advantageous to our Plan A anyways.
Well stated. By pasting the specific build from the BMWconfig website, I am giving the CA one final opportunity to provide an actual number. Otherwise it will be onto plan B.
NHman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-07-2013, 08:57 AM   #18
Overlord73
Dream Came True
 
Overlord73's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston

Posts: 61
iTrader: (4)

If you are in the NorthEast why haven't you hit up David Aviles up in Maryland? He will give you a straight up price and it will probably be the lowest you will get. I'm heading out Wed for ED, even with the allocation issues he hooked me up with my E92 M3 pricing was incredible and I'm not joking.
Overlord73 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-07-2013, 10:24 AM   #19
jqsmooth
Captain
 
jqsmooth's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Jersey

Posts: 632
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord73 View Post
If you are in the NorthEast why haven't you hit up David Aviles up in Maryland? He will give you a straight up price and it will probably be the lowest you will get. I'm heading out Wed for ED, even with the allocation issues he hooked me up with my E92 M3 pricing was incredible and I'm not joking.
+1

I had a rather unpleasant experience with a local CA. Then, I contacted David. A couple of e-mails and a 10 min phone call, it was done. It just doesn't get any easier than that.
__________________
2011 E92 l SSII l Fox Red l ZP2 l ZCW l ZCV l 19" l 6MT l DDC l EPS
2012 Toyota Prius C(my new daily).
2002 Nissan Pathfinder - 301.6K and Junked.
2000 Mitsubishi Montero Sport - Rolled & Totalled.
1995 Cadillac Fleetwood - RIP.
jqsmooth is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-07-2013, 02:19 PM   #20
Crisp
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Crisp's Avatar
 
Drives: E60 M5 6 Speed
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC

Posts: 1,523
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stronghammer View Post
I used to think like you, never again. I tried asking simple questions to two CA's at two dealerships. Got the same stupid answers from both. "Come in, sit down, lets talk". So I sent my specs to a bimmerfest board sponsor. Got numbers back in a few hours instead of words. I bought from him the next day. If you want to skip all the BS, PM me and I will tell you who I used. PCD was fun, really glad I did it
Right, because they don't work the same way. You have to understand the politics behind it.

If you call a local dealer in the North East, 99.9% of the time, he will not give you the bottom line price nor close to it because he doesn't want you taking that number and shopping around with it.

If you e-mail a dealer in, hmm, let's say California, he will give you a much better price because he knows for sure that you're going to shop around with that price locally. Therefor, it's in his best interest to beat all local deals and have you buy the car from him.
It's a win-win because the out-of-town dealer takes a smaller profit per car but sells more cars. The local dealer usually only sells to locals, unless he is also doing the same thing by trying to sell more for less.

However, your local dealer should be able to beat any price (as long as it's realistic) of non-local dealers because it does not look good on them if local customers are buying their cars in different states.

Moral of the story: you have to invest some time and shop around for the best deal. You can't just expect to call a local dealer and get the best number, unless you really know what you're doing or you have done business with that dealership before.
__________________
Past BMWs: 2009 E93 335i -2010 E60 535i -2008 E60 M5 - 2013 M3
Current BMWs:2008 E64 M6 - 2014 F30 320i
Crisp is offline   Albania
0
Reply With Quote
      01-08-2013, 09:19 AM   #21
BMWDavid
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
BMWDavid's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 ZCP Fire Orange
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: All of USA! Every BMW! Steve Thomas BMW

Posts: 679
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3 Sedan  [0.00]
2005(sold but not f ...  [5.00]
2006 X3  [0.00]
1984 633csi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by My E90 View Post
The best car deals I've gotten were always negotiated via email. Just did this with my M3 through David Aviles and a month ago through a semi-local dealer for my wife's X3.

I always give the local dealers a chance but it's usually more headache than it's worth because Miami dealers will NOT negotiate. Put together a reasonable offer using the online tools that we have and start emailing. First person to say, "I can do that", gets the business.

My local dealer's service department provides loaner cars regardless of where the car was purchased and I love going to the Performance Center... win-win!
Thank you very much! It makes so much more sense to save people time as well as money.
__________________
David ///M Aviles
Steve Thomas BMW
European Delivery | Performance Center | BMW Individual
Save Time and $ on ANY BMW anywhere in the USA. 202-262-2900

Get your Ultimate Quote here! -->www.bimmerdavid.com
BMWDavid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-08-2013, 09:23 AM   #22
BMWDavid
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
BMWDavid's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 ZCP Fire Orange
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: All of USA! Every BMW! Steve Thomas BMW

Posts: 679
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3 Sedan  [0.00]
2005(sold but not f ...  [5.00]
2006 X3  [0.00]
1984 633csi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord73 View Post
If you are in the NorthEast why haven't you hit up David Aviles up in Maryland? He will give you a straight up price and it will probably be the lowest you will get. I'm heading out Wed for ED, even with the allocation issues he hooked me up with my E92 M3 pricing was incredible and I'm not joking.
Thanks Overlord! I'm thrilled for you. The wait is over this week! Enjoy Munich and your new M3
__________________
David ///M Aviles
Steve Thomas BMW
European Delivery | Performance Center | BMW Individual
Save Time and $ on ANY BMW anywhere in the USA. 202-262-2900

Get your Ultimate Quote here! -->www.bimmerdavid.com
BMWDavid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:08 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST