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      12-31-2012, 01:40 PM   #23
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+ 1 yes, the car can act silly after a spin out that messes with the car goind off axis. This is more part of a collision saftety feature. Example, like if you're ever in a crash, the batt cable pops and the doors unlock; if you have a vert that goes off it's horizontal axis plane it will trip the rear headrests to pop thinking its a rollover.

It may not be limp mode, but it's not out of ordinary for the car to have issues after being spun around and rolled backwards violently. If this was a stick, that's your first problem, as you ALWAYS push the clutch in when the car gets out of control to prevent stalling out.

To answer your post question; this is def a NEWB issue, and to all others saying never turn DSC off, you all need lessons as well. Most of my other cars never had TC and all made lots of power and could be "steered by throttle". People who rely on the DSC need fundamental driving skills. This topic seems to be pretty common here every few months. This car will snap oversteer I find as the amount of grip needed to "lose it" is pretty high, so you really need to be moving not to mention the car really only makes the power upstairs, so High RPM + higher speed= OP spinning in circles
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      12-31-2012, 02:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advans View Post
did you press DSC off, if so, it would be DSC limited, unless u hold on to the DSC button for like 2-3 seconds, then it would fully turn off.
Surprised you have an m car. There is no DSC limited or DTC as in other bmws. Pressing DSC quickly does nothing. Holding it turns it off. There is no in between setting but rather the MDM setting is the "in between" setting.
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      12-31-2012, 02:08 PM   #25
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What happens after a couple of key cycles ? does the DSC msg stays on ?
Also,you should check your alignment cause that could be a reason why the car spun out aggressively.
I drive my car with DSC off 90% of the time even in the rain and never spun out !
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      12-31-2012, 04:00 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3an View Post
+ 1 yes, the car can act silly after a spin out that messes with the car goind off axis. This is more part of a collision saftety feature. Example, like if you're ever in a crash, the batt cable pops and the doors unlock; if you have a vert that goes off it's horizontal axis plane it will trip the rear headrests to pop thinking its a rollover.

It may not be limp mode, but it's not out of ordinary for the car to have issues after being spun around and rolled backwards violently. If this was a stick, that's your first problem, as you ALWAYS push the clutch in when the car gets out of control to prevent stalling out.

To answer your post question; this is def a NEWB issue, and to all others saying never turn DSC off, you all need lessons as well. Most of my other cars never had TC and all made lots of power and could be "steered by throttle". People who rely on the DSC need fundamental driving skills. This topic seems to be pretty common here every few months. This car will snap oversteer I find as the amount of grip needed to "lose it" is pretty high, so you really need to be moving not to mention the car really only makes the power upstairs, so High RPM + higher speed= OP spinning in circles
South Florida is a whole different story than Boston in late December on wet pavement with or w/o winter tires. I have no doubt that YOU have difficulty breaking loose in year round summer temps. However, winter temps dictate more conservative driving and DSC 100% of the time.

Hopefully the OP learned what he needed to in relative safety.
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      12-31-2012, 05:35 PM   #27
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South Florida is a whole different story than Boston in late December on wet pavement with or w/o winter tires. I have no doubt that YOU have difficulty breaking loose in year round summer temps. However, winter temps dictate more conservative driving and DSC 100% of the time.

Hopefully the OP learned what he needed to in relative safety.

I'm from NY and have driven an e46 m3 through winters up there. I just moved to FL so I am def familiar with cold weather driving. Why do you think I moved?? lol
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      12-31-2012, 05:36 PM   #28
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M3's stored for Winter, but in snow I take all the nanny controls off the 335d. I gotta get speed up which means it's gonna go sideways & don't need the intervention.
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      12-31-2012, 05:41 PM   #29
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I'm from NY and have driven an e46 m3 through winters up there. I just moved to FL so I am def familiar with cold weather driving. Why do you think I moved?? lol
Fair enough!
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      12-31-2012, 05:53 PM   #30
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I doubt alignments, tires, stupidity, and every other reason here comes to close to explaining why it spun so quickly.

Your other cars probably didn't have a limited slip diff. If they did, I doubt that they can lock up the wheels together like the E9X M3 diff can. So the rear end on the M3 WILL come around on you and will rotate very quickly. The key is throttle control and some countersteering. This car rewards skill but will also quickly punish ineptitude when you turn DSC off. Unlike the E46...this car is tail happy.

But what do I do? YES, I TURN DSC OFF! I TURN IT OFF! I LOVE TURNING IT OFF! Why? Because I can.

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Doesn't matter what you do when you spin out, car should still not go into limp mode.

Limp mode should NEVER happen. Period.
Was your M5 a manual or SMG? If he spun a manual car and stalled it (sounds like he did)...then he could have spun the engine backwards. Not good.

I don't think you can spin the engine backwards in a DCT car. I've spun a couple of times and it has never stalled. Its so IDIOT proof! Not sure if the SMG is the same way...I would guess that it is.
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      12-31-2012, 08:21 PM   #31
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Rack it up as lesson learned. You got on it too hard, try MDM. DSC is way too invasive for me. I drive in MDM mode most of the time. On dry warm roads I love DSC off, the chassis is just so composed, I love it!
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      12-31-2012, 09:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Surprised you have an m car. There is no DSC limited or DTC as in other bmws. Pressing DSC quickly does nothing. Holding it turns it off. There is no in between setting but rather the MDM setting is the "in between" setting.
really, I need to check haha I only turned it off a handful of times. I drive a e60 550 as a DD and take the M3 out maybe 2-3 times a month.
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      12-31-2012, 10:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
Car can and does go into limp mode if you spin out and stall it while in gear..I suppose the ECU goes through some internal checks, (you would know more about this) but it generally clears itself while driving or through a few on/off power cycles of the engine
No it does not. It's not a designed feature and it's not supposed to do that.

You can stall it and it won't go into limp mode. You can spin out and it shouldn't go into limp mode. DSC malfunction I've seen a few times caused by sensors getting freaked out - not engine malfunction and limp mode. This should ONLY happen with a malfunctioning sensor or something else awry.

The ECU does not perform its standard internal checks while driving. Most checks are performed when the ignition is powered on. There are other checks that the DME performs while driving but they are not related in any respect to this particular situation and do not apply.

Restarting the car will usually clear something like this if it's not a persistent fault and is an environmental 'glitch'.

+1 to what M3an other than these malfunctions potentially being a safety feature. The DSC faults (+ start off assistance inactive/ DBC malfunction / CBC malfunction) can be caused if the car gets confused due to an extreme circumstance.
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      12-31-2012, 10:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
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No it does not. It's not a designed feature and it's not supposed to do that.

You can stall it and it won't go into limp mode. You can spin out and it shouldn't go into limp mode. DSC malfunction I've seen a few times caused by sensors getting freaked out - not engine malfunction and limp mode. This should ONLY happen with a malfunctioning sensor or something else awry.

The ECU does not perform its standard internal checks while driving. Most checks are performed when the ignition is powered on. There are other checks that the DME performs while driving but they are not related in any respect to this particular situation and do not apply.

Restarting the car will usually clear something like this if it's not a persistent fault and is an environmental 'glitch'.
Ok so seems m3an had it correct that its a DSC type fault as opposed to engine..but it will through that fault code
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      12-31-2012, 10:15 PM   #35
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Not sure what code you are referring to when you say "that fault code"

A DSC related code, possible. An engine related code, possible - but should not happen as a result of a spin out.
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      12-31-2012, 10:20 PM   #36
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Not sure what code you are referring to when you say "that fault code"

A DSC related code, possible. An engine related code, possible - but should not happen as a result of a spin out.
Error code ..fault code???..when you scan for codes through the OBDII port..

The OP had "a" code he just never posted what it was, he referred to have the rev limiter reduced which indicated possible limp home mode
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      12-31-2012, 10:44 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
Error code ..fault code???..when you scan for codes through the OBDII port..

The OP had "a" code he just never posted what it was, he referred to have the rev limiter reduced which indicated possible limp home mode
You posted "Ok so seems m3an had it correct that its a DSC type fault as opposed to engine..but it will through that fault code"

And I was just saying that I was unsure if you were referring to an engine fault code or DSC fault code with your use of 'that'.

Semantics at this point. It's not that it will throw a code if you spin out. It might and theoretically should not without extreme circumstances.

Codes scanned through the OBDII Port will be OBD II generic and will normally not show ANY DSC faults, unless you are using a specific tool designed for BMW bus systems and control units.
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      12-31-2012, 10:48 PM   #38
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good discussion, now that the emo has eased a bit.

again... experiment was done in a safe place - no children were ever at risk.

i don't have a scanner so am not sure what error code was tripped, but i can confirm i am a relatively new driver to 6mt and did not push in clutch with brake. so best guess is stall induced engine fault as one of the posters suggested. lesson now learned - thank you.

the code has now cleared after a few power on/off cycles, so car seems fine.

a note to those of you who ride high horses. it is always a bit easier to receive coaching from someone who at least comes across as sympathetic. think of all the noobs who want to learn but are afraid of getting flamed by someone with a bit more knowledge and a lot more attitude - is that how we want to develop the community?!?
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      12-31-2012, 10:56 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartman314 View Post
again... experiment was done in a safe place - no children were ever at risk.

i don't have a scanner so am not sure what error code was tripped, but i can confirm i am a relatively new driver to 6mt and did not push in clutch with brake. so best guess is stall induced engine fault as one of the posters suggested. lesson now learned - thank you.

the code has now cleared after a few power on/off cycles, so car seems fine.

a note to those of you who ride high horses. it is always a bit easier to receive coaching from someone who at least comes across as sympathetic. think of all the noobs who want to learn but are afraid of getting flamed by someone with a bit more knowledge and a lot more attitude - is that how we want to develop the community?!?
The only thing I have is respect for you for doing this away from a public place! All good in my book! We all live and learn, although being a racecar driver prepped at birth would be nice.

If you find someone with a BMW scanner, the faults that were thrown will likely still be in there with the mileage they occurred. So you have a long time to find out
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      01-01-2013, 01:03 AM   #40
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Every guy here has learned some hard lessons in one way or another. You went to where you could do no harm and learned yourself. Its all good.

I'm old and grew up on bias ply tires, drum brakes, and so on in a time when product liability wasn't even a lawyers wet dream. lol Hell, my mom could drive a stick and countersteer when the rear end came around. Nowdays you have all the fancy new hardware and well sorted handling, nannies, all that fun stuff. I think where I'm going is a hpde might not be a bad idea if you want to hang that ass out. Not throwing stones at you, I think I learned as many hard lessons as anyone. HPDEs are a lot of fun and what you will learn will serve you well in many an ass hanging out session in the future. This does not have to be brutally expensive, car clubs and such often have track days that you can join in for fairly cheap. Hell, I went to a P car event in my corvette. Thought I would get grief from them but they didn't care, a car guy is a car guy and it was all about having some fun.

Dont discount getting yourself some learning just because of some holier than thous, you will have a good time and learn a lot. I know I did.
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      01-01-2013, 12:48 PM   #41
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good advice.

i have an hpde on my to do list. :-)
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      01-01-2013, 02:12 PM   #42
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i had snow tires on and the pavement was wet.
I also run winter tires here in the Northeast, and they certainly have better traction than summer tires at low temperatures, even in the dry. But I've been surprised by just how slick the roads can be when running proper winter tires in wet conditions and 35-40 degrees F. Not ice or black ice, but just wet. Especially with this relatively neutral/tail-happy car.

Quote:
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Was your M5 a manual or SMG? If he spun a manual car and stalled it (sounds like he did)...then he could have spun the engine backwards. Not good.

I don't think you can spin the engine backwards in a DCT car. I've spun a couple of times and it has never stalled. Its so IDIOT proof! Not sure if the SMG is the same way...I would guess that it is.
I think you're right, Jae. At least that was my impression when I spun last summer on track in my DCT car and slid backwards for a bit on pavement. The car kept running, didn't stall, and didn't throw any error codes. Here's proof. The action happens around 1:06:



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i have an hpde on my to do list. :-)
Excellent. You'll love it. Very fun and educational, and very worthwhile.
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      01-01-2013, 02:17 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabman View Post
Every guy here has learned some hard lessons in one way or another. You went to where you could do no harm and learned yourself. Its all good.

I'm old and grew up on bias ply tires, drum brakes, and so on in a time when product liability wasn't even a lawyers wet dream. lol Hell, my mom could drive a stick and countersteer when the rear end came around. Nowdays you have all the fancy new hardware and well sorted handling, nannies, all that fun stuff. I think where I'm going is a hpde might not be a bad idea if you want to hang that ass out. Not throwing stones at you, I think I learned as many hard lessons as anyone. HPDEs are a lot of fun and what you will learn will serve you well in many an ass hanging out session in the future. This does not have to be brutally expensive, car clubs and such often have track days that you can join in for fairly cheap. Hell, I went to a P car event in my corvette. Thought I would get grief from them but they didn't care, a car guy is a car guy and it was all about having some fun.

Dont discount getting yourself some learning just because of some holier than thous, you will have a good time and learn a lot. I know I did.
+1
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      01-01-2013, 02:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
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I think you're right, Jae. At least that was my impression when I spun last summer on track in my DCT car and slid backwards for a bit on pavement. The car kept running, didn't stall, and didn't throw any error codes. Here's proof. The action happens around 1:06:
I've spun my car a couple of times attempting to drift at a drift practice, never stalled. I think it just disengages the clutch.
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