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      12-30-2012, 10:36 PM   #67
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Never had a problem with the torque of the m3 with dct. As someone said its hard enough to keep traction as it is. I do a lot of city driving and never had a problem, and I don't feel like I have to rev the hell out of it to get it moving.

I had a 335i and that engine was falling on its face very quickly and wasnt much fun to drive.
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      12-30-2012, 10:46 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
IDK, the cool thing about a centrifugal SC (and the weakness, depending on what you like) is that they boost in a linear fashion, building towards redline. so the powerband looks exactly like stock in its shape, just a lot more power and pulls harder near redline.

it is a weakness in that it does not really have the low end gain that a positive displacement blower has.

just depends what you like.

whether an SC is too much power for the m3 on a certain track depends on the track and the driver.
That's what they sell you but it's not really true. Sounds like you never had a supercharged e92 m3 and haven't taken one to the track.
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      12-30-2012, 10:53 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
That's what they sell you but it's not really true. Sounds like you never had a supercharged e92 m3 and haven't taken one to the track.
I had a supercharged e46 m3. Same type of kit, same concept.
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      12-31-2012, 12:02 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I had a supercharged e46 m3. Same type of kit, same concept.
Well you must have not have tracked it that much. That's where you really feel the drawbacks of a supercharger.
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      12-31-2012, 12:18 PM   #71
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Just like women. The crazy psycho ones are sometimes the hottest
Haha so true; can't stand them but can't let them go either

Interesting points of view here, with torque really seeming to be the one major (while polarizing) issue. Great discussion so far!
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      12-31-2012, 01:26 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullbussa View Post
So BMW engineers decided to use F1 power delivery in a 5 seater, daily driver car? The M3 is not a sports car, it is confusing that BMW engineers supposedly had the intention of replicating the powerband of a pure track car on a car that will spend 99.99% of its life on public streets.

I reject the notion this was BMW's intention. If so, why replace it with a turbo engine in the next M3? Remember, this next engine will make roughly the same horsepower - the difference is that it will make over 100+ more ft.lbs of torque. Clearly BMW is correcting what they consider to be a mistake.
I think most people on this forum would agree that the decision to go with turbocharging of future M cars is the result of meeting new regulations and improved gas mileage - NOT to correct a "mistake".
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      12-31-2012, 02:37 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keno View Post
I think most people on this forum would agree that the decision to go with turbocharging of future M cars is the result of meeting new regulations and improved gas mileage - NOT to correct a "mistake".
Indeed. The M3 V8 engine has won several engine of the year titles, not only is not a mistake, it's a masterpiece.

I'm pretty sure the next M3 turbo engine will not live to the standards set already by the existing V8.
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      12-31-2012, 02:38 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by keno View Post
I think most people on this forum would agree that the decision to go with turbocharging of future M cars is the result of meeting new regulations and improved gas mileage - NOT to correct a "mistake".
+1

Watch, the following generation will have a hybrid powertrain (Mi3/4...).
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      12-31-2012, 02:39 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullbussa View Post
So BMW engineers decided to use F1 power delivery in a 5 seater, daily driver car? The M3 is not a sports car, it is confusing that BMW engineers supposedly had the intention of replicating the powerband of a pure track car on a car that will spend 99.99% of its life on public streets.

I reject the notion this was BMW's intention. If so, why replace it with a turbo engine in the next M3? Remember, this next engine will make roughly the same horsepower - the difference is that it will make over 100+ more ft.lbs of torque. Clearly BMW is correcting what they consider to be a mistake.
Or they are on this forum and BMW is responding to what we tell them was a mistake.
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      12-31-2012, 03:10 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by brava09 View Post
Indeed. The M3 V8 engine has won several engine of the year titles, not only is not a mistake, it's a masterpiece.

I'm pretty sure the next M3 turbo engine will not live to the standards set already by the existing V8.
Yes exactly. The current engine is a gem, something very special. The upcoming line of m cars with have the run of the mill 4, 6, and 8 cylinder FI engines with few revisions and a more boost. Nothing special about low revving FI motors.
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      12-31-2012, 03:17 PM   #77
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If they really wanted to keep the "gem" they could've saved a lot of money by just adding direct injection. Exactly what gm is doing with there ls3....
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      12-31-2012, 04:17 PM   #78
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a bunch of sensitive people here
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      12-31-2012, 04:32 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullbussa View Post
So BMW engineers decided to use F1 power delivery in a 5 seater, daily driver car? The M3 is not a sports car, it is confusing that BMW engineers supposedly had the intention of replicating the powerband of a pure track car on a car that will spend 99.99% of its life on public streets.

I reject the notion this was BMW's intention. If so, why replace it with a turbo engine in the next M3? Remember, this next engine will make roughly the same horsepower - the difference is that it will make over 100+ more ft.lbs of torque. Clearly BMW is correcting what they consider to be a mistake.
Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to the new CAFE requirements.....BMW is doing the turbo primarily for gas mileage while maintaining/improving performance. Without that requirement, I would think the progression would be a larger V8, then perhaps an even higher revving V8, then maybe even a V10 ( while M5/6 goes V12). BMW M division chief has been quoted that the new turbo M engines will have a "higher" redline in keeping with the M traditions.

It's not about what BMW engineers can or cannot do.....it's about what they WANT to do for the M brand. And for the M brand, they want to have high revving linear engines.

I do agree with you on one thing - M3 is not a sports car.....it's a sports sedan/coupe with many of the fantastic characteristics of a single seat, open wheel, formula race car. Look at the history of the M cars and you'll see that BMW has not strayed much from their original intention.
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      12-31-2012, 05:20 PM   #80
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I left the m3 because every topic on the m3 post goes Off topic.
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      12-31-2012, 08:36 PM   #81
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I left the m3 because every topic on the m3 post goes Off topic.
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      01-01-2013, 12:14 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
Well you must have not have tracked it that much. That's where you really feel the drawbacks of a supercharger.
So all of a sudden we must track the car to enjoy it fully??? I dont get this at all..... If I am buying a performance car... I want it to perform at a stop light as well. C63 and E63 do smoke the crap out of our cars in conditions that most people drive them at 97% of the time.
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      01-01-2013, 01:06 AM   #83
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So all of a sudden we must track the car to enjoy it fully??? I dont get this at all..... If I am buying a performance car... I want it to perform at a stop light as well. C63 and E63 do smoke the crap out of our cars in conditions that most people drive them at 97% of the time.
I never said that. If you want straight line speed the C63 is the better car. Seems like you should have gotten one of those if you want to be fast in 97% of your driving conditions. The m3 shines in the corners because it's so balanced.

I was talking about the downside of superchargers at the track before to make a point that more power isn't always a good thing if it isn't done the right way.
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      01-01-2013, 02:51 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullbussa View Post

Why on Earth is this forum fixated on the idea that turbo engines are low-class workhorse engines meant for the masses?
You nailed it mate, indeed the turbo engines are low-class workhorse engines

I had the N54, nothing to write home about. It was enough one test drive of the S65 and I couldn't dump faster the N54
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      01-01-2013, 03:23 AM   #85
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Seriously though ..all this speculation..on a platform that hasn't even been released yet..

The M3 has never disappointed..no need to presume they would start now..
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      01-01-2013, 06:16 AM   #86
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Seriously though ..all this speculation..on a platform that hasn't even been released yet..

The M3 has never disappointed..no need to presume they would start now..
Well if its going in the same direction as the f10 m5 then expect a bigger car with FI and fake engine noise through the speakers.

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      01-01-2013, 01:21 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I never said that. If you want straight line speed the C63 is the better car. Seems like you should have gotten one of those if you want to be fast in 97% of your driving conditions. The m3 shines in the corners because it's so balanced.

I was talking about the downside of superchargers at the track before to make a point that more power isn't always a good thing if it isn't done the right way.
Agreed, and rarely do the S/C's make people that much faster around the track. If only built motors weren't so damn expensive.
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      01-01-2013, 05:18 PM   #88
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I left the m3 because every topic on the m3 post goes Off topic.

are you sure, not bc M3 is THE BEST car ever, 99.9% of m owner think so.
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