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      12-29-2012, 07:09 PM   #45
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The S65 may not be a torque monster, but it certainly has enough for day to day driving. I wouldn't mind another 100 ft. lbs. but you have to admit it does strike a perfect balance as it is.

My '03 E55 AMG was a true "lazy" driver, and all I had to do was think about passing someone and it was done. The M3 requires a different driving style, and is more involved. I look at it as the difference between flying a fixed wing vs. a helicopter.
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      12-29-2012, 07:23 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X2Board View Post
The S65 may not be a torque monster, but it certainly has enough for day to day driving. I wouldn't mind another 100 ft. lbs. but you have to admit it does strike a perfect balance as it is.

My '03 E55 AMG was a true "lazy" driver, and all I had to do was think about passing someone and it was done. The M3 requires a different driving style, and is more involved. I look at it as the difference between flying a fixed wing vs. a helicopter.
Yep. And for me, after 6 years of the GTO and the lazy torque, I'm stoked to move to a car that needs some work to move, and rewards with an amazing soundtrack :-)

Grass is always greener, I suppose
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      12-29-2012, 07:55 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by soberin View Post
This is a moronic statement by an obviously novice driver of performance cars. The lack of low-end torque is a major flaw of the the M3. It is designed, in case you are unaware, for high speed cruising, and tracking. It sucks as a daily driver around town.
This may be the most moronic statement of all. The "lack of low end torque" is not a design flaw.....it was THE design criteria for the BMW engineers. BMW likes to make their M cars in the same spirit as the F1 cars, just with the practicality of carrying 4/5 passengers. Perhaps you'd be much happier in a car designed in the same spirit as the NASCAR cars???

Just as the M3 serves dual purpose of a family sedan and a track car, the engine is a perfect match for those two distinct personalities. I like the docile nature of the engine when my family is in the car and I love the ferocious rev happy nature when I am at the track. If you can't keep the revs over 2k even when not paying close attention, an auto may be the best option.
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      12-29-2012, 08:29 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmm3333
Quote:
Originally Posted by soberin View Post
This is a moronic statement by an obviously novice driver of performance cars. The lack of low-end torque is a major flaw of the the M3. It is designed, in case you are unaware, for high speed cruising, and tracking. It sucks as a daily driver around town.
This may be the most moronic statement of all. The "lack of low end torque" is not a design flaw.....it was THE design criteria for the BMW engineers. BMW likes to make their M cars in the same spirit as the F1 cars, just with the practicality of carrying 4/5 passengers. Perhaps you'd be much happier in a car designed in the same spirit as the NASCAR cars???

Just as the M3 serves dual purpose of a family sedan and a track car, the engine is a perfect match for those two distinct personalities. I like the docile nature of the engine when my family is in the car and I love the ferocious rev happy nature when I am at the track. If you can't keep the revs over 2k even when not paying close attention, an auto may be the best option.
Apparently the new BMW design direction begs to differ.... Not disagreeing with you just stating the obvious.

Btw this discussion is parallel with 600 vs liter bikes on the bike forums. Different strokes for different folks. I prefer the 600 on a bike and monster torque in my cars only bc its easier to handle or walk away from a spin, but that's a moot point now that traction control has become so advanced in every motor sport. My s1000rr gave me the best of all worlds with rain mode and abs... And the fj200 offers crawl mode over the traditional locking front center rear diffs.

I was most impressed with my z06's competition mode which kept me from spinning my car on a new to me track , new car and first time driving an hpde event in the rain with some lakes running through!
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      12-29-2012, 09:44 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmm3333 View Post
This may be the most moronic statement of all. The "lack of low end torque" is not a design flaw.....it was THE design criteria for the BMW engineers. BMW likes to make their M cars in the same spirit as the F1 cars, just with the practicality of carrying 4/5 passengers. Perhaps you'd be much happier in a car designed in the same spirit as the NASCAR cars???

Just as the M3 serves dual purpose of a family sedan and a track car, the engine is a perfect match for those two distinct personalities. I like the docile nature of the engine when my family is in the car and I love the ferocious rev happy nature when I am at the track. If you can't keep the revs over 2k even when not paying close attention, an auto may be the best option.
I never said it was a design flaw. I did say it was a flaw, which I will qualify by saying it is a flaw as a DD for those who may not like to shift from 4th to 2nd to get around every corner in town. It is not a flaw for high speed cruising or the track.
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      12-29-2012, 09:46 PM   #50
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If I ever leave the M3, I'd also leave the M3 forums. I'm skeptical of anyone that claims to have a superior car but remains in these forums. If I had a Bugatti Veyron, I would be on the Bugatti Veyron forums. Duh.
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      12-30-2012, 12:08 AM   #51
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      12-30-2012, 12:42 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optherion View Post

3. Yes the M3 has little to no torque. Easy measurement. How much gas pedal is required to push you back in the seat?.
I don't know about you, but if I am not careful with my throttle input my M3 lose traction fairly easy. Doesn't this mean too much torque actually?

My opinion that any extra torque on M3 would be lost in silly wheel spin, and throttle control would be even more difficult.
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      12-30-2012, 02:06 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylin032 View Post
If I ever leave the M3, I'd also leave the M3 forums. I'm skeptical of anyone that claims to have a superior car but remains in these forums. If I had a Bugatti Veyron, I would be on the Bugatti Veyron forums. Duh.
Exactly, I used to be on Nagtroc when I had a GTR and if I ever switched car again I would never come back to this forum just like I never been back to evo or gtr forum since I sold the cars
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      12-30-2012, 08:35 AM   #54
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Wanted to try something different and there was a business reason too

To all of the torque comments, I think some are bothered by it more than others. I, for one, never felt that the M3 was deficient in torque for DD duties (especially the DCT which is an improvement on the 6MT due to gearing in my experience). The C63 has gobs of torque which is easy and useful but I never personally felt the M3 was lacking. I love the C63 and I also miss the M3. The C63 is faster, handles very comparably to the M3 and sounds way better but the M3 had a "feel" to it that I miss... I can't describe it better than that. I wish I could have both
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      12-30-2012, 08:45 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brava09 View Post
I don't know about you, but if I am not careful with my throttle input my M3 lose traction fairly easy. Doesn't this mean too much torque actually?

My opinion that any extra torque on M3 would be lost in silly wheel spin, and throttle control would be even more difficult.
I am with you on this one. There is a group of us that get together (about 10-12 cars usually) and go on nice spirited runs through the country and there is one thing I notice all the time on those runs.....the DCT M3 always seem to be putting down the right amount of power coming out of a slow tight turn. 2nd gear, mash the long pedal and it just hooks (I have 295 rears on my car). I had to be so overly cautious with my former C6 Vettes as the ass end would come around so damn fast. I find the torque in the DCT fitted M3's to be just fine to my liking. Not so much in the 6MT....there is a considerable difference to me in the two.
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      12-30-2012, 08:47 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylin032 View Post
If I ever leave the M3, I'd also leave the M3 forums. I'm skeptical of anyone that claims to have a superior car but remains in these forums. If I had a Bugatti Veyron, I would be on the Bugatti Veyron forums. Duh.
Whose to say those who sold/upgraded their M3 aren't also on other forums? Many here, myself included, are fans of cars... all cars... and enjoy being part of this community and others. Also, that way when we make our way back to the M3 or M4 or whatever, we are still up to date.

We will make sure to have the admins cancel your account here when you get another car someday as we now know it won't be appropriate for you to post here after that
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      12-30-2012, 08:49 AM   #57
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I just got into my E92 ///M3 from my 330ci so I have no complaints. Still have the 330 though.
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      12-30-2012, 11:29 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal
Wanted to try something different and there was a business reason too

To all of the torque comments, I think some are bothered by it more than others. I, for one, never felt that the M3 was deficient in torque for DD duties (especially the DCT which is an improvement on the 6MT due to gearing in my experience). The C63 has gobs of torque which is easy and useful but I never personally felt the M3 was lacking. I love the C63 and I also miss the M3. The C63 is faster, handles very comparably to the M3 and sounds way better but the M3 had a "feel" to it that I miss... I can't describe it better than that. I wish I could have both
me too. I miss my M3 feeling n handling.
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      12-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #59
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I think those that like that feeling of torque all the time mostly drive in a straight line. Thats where torque makes a car more enjoyable to drive. The M3 is sublime coming out of corners and the power is just perfect. Lets face it. People buy great cars for the wrong purpose all the time. I'm actually in the process of removing my supercharger because all the extra power makes the car feel very unbalanced (at least that's one of the reasons).
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      12-30-2012, 03:53 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylin032 View Post
If I ever leave the M3, I'd also leave the M3 forums. I'm skeptical of anyone that claims to have a superior car but remains in these forums. If I had a Bugatti Veyron, I would be on the Bugatti Veyron forums. Duh.
LOL. If i leave the forums, its because of moronic comments from users, not based on my ownership of vehicles. I joined this forum a year before I ever purchased a M3. I owe this forum credit to every single mod I ever purchased.
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      12-30-2012, 03:55 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Whose to say those who sold/upgraded their M3 aren't also on other forums? Many here, myself included, are fans of cars... all cars... and enjoy being part of this community and others. Also, that way when we make our way back to the M3 or M4 or whatever, we are still up to date.

We will make sure to have the admins cancel your account here when you get another car someday as we now know it won't be appropriate for you to post here after that
Lol too true. I need to stay up to date when the next M3 is out because its a great car. Hope to get into the next gen M3 as the M5 serves no purpose to me. I really want boost and low end grunt.

On another note how are you loving the grunt of that c63? Seriously considering one of the 4 doors as a DD but have heard comments about the trans. Would never have a manual again after all the DCT cars ive had. 458, GT-R, M3.

This thread simply asked, why did you get rid of your M3, I wanted more low end grunt. There was nothing wrong with the car. Perfect balance. But sometimes you get sick of balance and like cars that will try to kill you Just like women. The crazy psycho ones are sometimes the hottest
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      12-30-2012, 03:58 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Whose to say those who sold/upgraded their M3 aren't also on other forums? Many here, myself included, are fans of cars... all cars... and enjoy being part of this community and others. Also, that way when we make our way back to the M3 or M4 or whatever, we are still up to date.

We will make sure to have the admins cancel your account here when you get another car someday as we now know it won't be appropriate for you to post here after that


+1
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      12-30-2012, 04:04 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I think those that like that feeling of torque all the time mostly drive in a straight line. Thats where torque makes a car more enjoyable to drive. The M3 is sublime coming out of corners and the power is just perfect. Lets face it. People buy great cars for the wrong purpose all the time. I'm actually in the process of removing my supercharger because all the extra power makes the car feel very unbalanced (at least that's one of the reasons).
OT but what are you other reasons?..I am a big proponent of not adding extra power by supercharging and rather mod by adding lightness and extracting the existing power from the engine.. hence getting better power to weight ratio and maintaining the N/A configuration

I am of the opinion that supercharging the M3 really transforms the car and not necessarily for the better. I am sure this will create a stir, but oh well..
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      12-30-2012, 06:52 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy View Post
fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soberin
This is a moronic statement by an obviously novice driver of performance cars. The lack of low-end torque is a major flaw of the the M3. It is designed, in case you are unaware, for high speed cruising, and tracking. It sucks as a daily driver around town.
Do you have an m3? Cause mine works just as good as my 335 in town and daily driving.
Maybe you drive in town different then me.
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      12-30-2012, 07:35 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I think those that like that feeling of torque all the time mostly drive in a straight line. Thats where torque makes a car more enjoyable to drive. The M3 is sublime coming out of corners and the power is just perfect. Lets face it. People buy great cars for the wrong purpose all the time. I'm actually in the process of removing my supercharger because all the extra power makes the car feel very unbalanced (at least that's one of the reasons).
do not understand this

why can a car not do both? it doesnt have to be one or the other.
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      12-30-2012, 07:37 PM   #66
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OT but what are you other reasons?..I am a big proponent of not adding extra power by supercharging and rather mod by adding lightness and extracting the existing power from the engine.. hence getting better power to weight ratio and maintaining the N/A configuration

I am of the opinion that supercharging the M3 really transforms the car and not necessarily for the better. I am sure this will create a stir, but oh well..
IDK, the cool thing about a centrifugal SC (and the weakness, depending on what you like) is that they boost in a linear fashion, building towards redline. so the powerband looks exactly like stock in its shape, just a lot more power and pulls harder near redline.

it is a weakness in that it does not really have the low end gain that a positive displacement blower has.

just depends what you like.

whether an SC is too much power for the m3 on a certain track depends on the track and the driver.
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