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      12-28-2012, 06:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy View Post
fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
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Originally Posted by CSanto
Why is it dumb? Drive a car with torque, it feels different. This is all subjective, and some people may prefer that feel. It's all opinion. Nobody is wrong.

My trucks tq is 800 I've had two 335 one modded. I know what the difference is. I still think its dumb. M3 has plenty tq for daily and in town use.
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      12-28-2012, 06:59 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy View Post
fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
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Originally Posted by Vic311
Its not really "dumb" if you consider some want to just step on the gas and have the car move..regardless of what gear they are in..

In this regard the M3 falls flat..I dont see that as being a great daily driver..a great car..yes...but requires constant driver input

Get a dct and drive in auto mode then. Lol
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      12-28-2012, 08:04 AM   #25
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torque is over rated. if you want power just rev your ///M like a vtec civic.
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      12-28-2012, 10:58 AM   #26
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As for the torque thing....I currently drive an '06 GTO Modded with gobs of torque. Just drove an m3 for the first time on Wednesday, and I was smitten. I actually get bored with the lazy, slow revving torque monster Goat, so personally can't wait to change over.

To each their own on torque . Fwiw, I thought the m3 had plenty of torque, and it revved so quickly and smoothly that it really didn't matter.
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      12-29-2012, 09:47 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optherion View Post
I missed having low end torque. Much more usable around town at low speeds. Rare in town I can even stretch the e92. Hoping the new M3 has a nice low end cause its a great DD.
totally agree. i felt like the engine / weight of the m3 was a mismatch for DD fun with the 6mt. id guess the DCT with the gearing would be a much better match, but i like rowing my own gears.

i sold my m3 and was on the hunt for a 1M which i finally found and purchased. it fixes a lot of the issues i personally found with the m3 for my purposes. in the future i definitely plan to consider the new turbo m3, but the 1M is pretty damn fun
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      12-29-2012, 09:52 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by buschy View Post
fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
this statement is so silly to me

just because YOU dont find the car down on torque doesnt mean that others may feel that it is low on torque.

drive a car like a 1M and tell me that the torque between the two cars is similar. clearly you have the benefit of the ripping redline on the m3 vs the 1M or say a 997TT, it just depends on what type of power delivery you prefer.

to each their own. but to act like the m3 isnt down on torque relative to other cars in its class is silly.
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      12-29-2012, 09:58 AM   #29
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I personally do not understand this whole m3 is "anemic" "gutless" argument, at least when equipped with dct. With 7 tightly spaced gears, you spend little to no time below 2500 rpm. Ever looked at how quickly your speedo moves when u hit the gas? At any speed in any gear? Give it a try. The car moves better than my old 997 c2s pdk that had more torque and lighter weight.

I understand the argument with a manual equipped m3 but even then it's still not that much of an issue. I'd rather have a formula one derived high revving v8 with machine gun like throttle response, than a boring 335 powered 1m with low end tq which falls flat on its ass after 5k rpm. Those turbo engines just don't feel special.

Last edited by KKM3; 12-29-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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      12-29-2012, 10:11 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I personally do not understand this whole m3 is "anemic" "gutless" argument, at least when equipped with dct. With 7 tightly spaced gears, you spend little to no time below 2500 rpm. Ever looked at how quickly your speedo moves when u hit the gas? At any speed in any gear? Give it a try. The car moves better than my old 997 c2s pdk that had more torque and lighter weight.

I understand the argument with a manual equipped m3 but even then it's still not that much of an issue. I'd rather have a formula one derived high revving v8 with machine gun like throttle response, than a boring 335 powered 1m with low end tq which falls flat on its ass after 5k rpm. Those turbo engines just don't feel special.
you driven one?

its also 400 lbs lighter than an m3 with the exact same suspension.

i do agree that the DCT is a much better match for the m3.

it just depends on what you like. and stock, even less so with an FMIC, the power does not completely die at 5000 RPM on the 1M at all. the car rips at all RPMs.

both great cars and similar in many ways, yet different in others. great to have choices
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      12-29-2012, 10:21 AM   #31
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you driven one?

its also 400 lbs lighter than an m3 with the exact same suspension.

i do agree that the DCT is a much better match for the m3.

it just depends on what you like. and stock, even less so with an FMIC, the power does not completely die at 5000 RPM on the 1M at all. the car rips at all RPMs.

both great cars and similar in many ways, yet different in others. great to have choices
I've never driven a 1m but I a 335 with the same engine and became bored with it (the engine not the car) after the first few months. And even after all the modding, all the power gains, the engine simply bored me to death.

The engine in the m3 is truly a gem. Honestly one of a kind. I have an r8 v10 and I still marvel over the v8 in my m3.
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      12-29-2012, 10:32 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I've never driven a 1m but I a 335 with the same engine and became bored with it (the engine not the car) after the first few months. And even after all the modding, all the power gains, the engine simply bored me to death.

The engine in the m3 is truly a gem. Honestly one of a kind. I have an r8 v10 and I still marvel over the v8 in my m3.
it is completely different, thats the best way i can describe it.

the new engine calibrations, intake manifold, LSD/suspension, and signficantly lighter weight makes a huge difference.

it is much more responsive

anyway, sorry to go OT

the m3 is a fantastic car though
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      12-29-2012, 10:54 AM   #33
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Having owned a pretty modified 135i, I know what torque is. The N54 certainly snaps your neck on acceleration, but you never knew when it was going to happen. Plant foot... wait... Boom! The 1M has a lot of this same latency problem from the few times I've driven those at driving events.

So, there's torgue there, but it's fairly uncivilized. The S65 feels much more precise and direct in comparison. When I first got this car, the comparable lack of torque was noticeable, but the throttle response and precision feel won my heart. I just have to shift more, which I am very okay with.

My next car will likely not be a BMW, if the M4 suffers any lag at all. I'm not sold on FI on smaller displacement engines.
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      12-29-2012, 11:07 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I've never driven a 1m but I a 335 with the same engine and became bored with it (the engine not the car) after the first few months. And even after all the modding, all the power gains, the engine simply bored me to death.

The engine in the m3 is truly a gem. Honestly one of a kind. I have an r8 v10 and I still marvel over the v8 in my m3.
That is pretty much how I feel about my LS2..."bored". It's just not that exciting. Can't wait to trade for the M3. Felt quite special.
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      12-29-2012, 11:28 AM   #35
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I've never driven a 1m but I a 335 with the same engine and became bored with it (the engine not the car) after the first few months. And even after all the modding, all the power gains, the engine simply bored me to death.

The engine in the m3 is truly a gem. Honestly one of a kind. I have an r8 v10 and I still marvel over the v8 in my m3.
That is pretty much how I feel about my LS2..."bored". It's just not that exciting. Can't wait to trade for the M3. Felt quite special.
If you had an ls3 it would be a different story. Torque down low and a great high end pull. Honestly, even my m6 is quite tiresome to drive from the lack of torque. But when I do get to open it up, its nothing short of sensational.

My favorite motor has to be the one in my boss 302. It has a flat torque curve that makes its peak power at 7500 rpm redline. This truly feels like it can rev all day long and isn't simply derived from racing but actually used in racing....
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      12-29-2012, 12:17 PM   #36
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I sold my 2011 E92 M3 Z package because I wanted something less common. In the DC area, an M3 is like a Camry, and at the end of the day, it's a 3 series coupe. Also, I really enjoyed the torque after I test drove a 510hp car w/ 470 lbs ft of torque. Got a supercharged Jag XKR. I have only come to realize all that torque only translates to wheel spin which I didn't get a lot of with my ex-M. And of course the handling of the M is undeniable.
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      12-29-2012, 12:21 PM   #37
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BTW, if I could have been able to keep the E92 n my new 2013 XKR I would as they totally different cars.
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      12-29-2012, 01:18 PM   #38
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Just wanted something different. I don't hold onto cars that long. Probably my last bimmer for a while. Not 100% sold on their direction right now. Drove the M5 recently, dare I say it is overrated. (although I could see myself picking up a beater E92 M3 in a year or two as a track car, they are getting cheap quick.)
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      12-29-2012, 02:18 PM   #39
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Quote:
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uh with that stable why would you even sell the M3. obviously you can afford to keep it around and drive one of the others if you wanted more torque

fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
1. No more garage space for 2 e92's and gas mileage. M3 was my DD and it wasnt making a whole lot of sense having a 2 door v8 for DD.

2. Power in any gear any time around town.

3. Yes the M3 has little to no torque. Easy measurement. How much gas pedal is required to push you back in the seat? M3 requires a lot of wringing out the engine and pedal to the floor high RPM. I loved that, and loved it in my GT3, however around town and 20-60mph blast with a ton of grunt is what I love. Like I said, I am used to the ZR1 Viper and GT-R. Which will let you experience a TON of low end torque (500ft lbs + at 2,500 RPM) M3 doesnt even have HALF that at 2500 RPM. It was a good daily driver through. This would be a different story if it was like the LS3 as stated. Torque down low and tons of HP up top. All around, M3 is a great car, but I think many of you haven't driven cars with 600ft lbs of torque to say "yes in my garage the m3 had the least amount of torque." For 99% of the demographics the M3 will be just fine.
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Last edited by Optherion; 12-29-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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      12-29-2012, 02:54 PM   #40
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You can have a car with a ton of torque and become bored with it in little time. I, like optherion have been fortunate enough to own and experience cars with high torque and high price tags but that doesn't mean I'm spoiled enough to not appreciate my m3 anymore. I've been in cars well over 100k and prefer the m3 to quite a few of them. Why? Mainly because of the engine and transmission. Everytime I sit in the m3, everytime I fire it up, it makes me smile. I never think about the lack of torque because the transmission is so effective at what it does that the car always feels fast to me. Obviously not as fast as my r8 but it never feels underpowered. Dct in the m3 is better than any double clutch I've experienced (manual operation). Better than any Porsche or gtr I've owned or driven and in a different league than the single clutch r-tronic in my r8.
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      12-29-2012, 04:34 PM   #41
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fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
This is a moronic statement by an obviously novice driver of performance cars. The lack of low-end torque is a major flaw of the the M3. It is designed, in case you are unaware, for high speed cruising, and tracking. It sucks as a daily driver around town.
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      12-29-2012, 04:35 PM   #42
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Its not really "dumb" if you consider some want to just step on the gas and have the car move..regardless of what gear they are in..

In this regard the M3 falls flat..I dont see that as being a great daily driver..a great car..yes...but requires constant driver input
Totally correct.
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      12-29-2012, 05:07 PM   #43
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You can have a car with a ton of torque and become bored with it in little time.
I once felt like this too, my last 8 performance cars were all high revving with low torque. None of these cars lasted very along(aside from my two M3s) and even M3s i got bored of and now that i think about it might have been due to torque. I will be honest and say i did enjoy revving these cars high but its not convenient at all if you live in any of the metropolitan areas.

I would say one would have to try out both and decide for yourself.
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      12-29-2012, 06:08 PM   #44
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I love the high revving engine =) Euro-vtech!
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