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      11-27-2012, 10:22 PM   #89
swamp2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urBan_dK View Post
No prob. Find out from Rogue whether their power steering pulley is the same as stock diameter (meaning it will also run at 84%) or if they make it 16% smaller in order to restore to 100% of OEM power steering speed.
Rogue said explicitly that with both of their systems, 1 and 2 pulleys, that all systems are underdriven by the same 16% figure. The point of the 2nd pulley in the 2 pulley system (included in a note in the spreadsheet) is to be able to use readily accessible belts (as pointed out also in a post just above).

Last edited by swamp2; 11-28-2012 at 12:55 AM.
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      11-28-2012, 04:14 PM   #90
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The AFE is 4.124" in diameter, according to my calculations this makes it a 84.5 of the OEM diameter or a 15.5% reduction if my calculations are correct.

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      11-28-2012, 08:16 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
The AFE is 4.124" in diameter, according to my calculations this makes it a 84.5 of the OEM diameter or a 15.5% reduction if my calculations are correct.

Dave
Great, thanks. Does this also mean you measured the OEM pulley at 124mm (4.88"). In the calculations for the AA pulley I used 122mm as the OEM size. I will use these figures for an update.
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      11-28-2012, 08:19 PM   #92
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Updated.

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      11-28-2012, 08:59 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Great, thanks. Does this also mean you measured the OEM pulley at 124mm (4.88"). In the calculations for the AA pulley I used 122mm as the OEM size. I will use these figures for an update.

Swamp I didn't know the exact size of the OEM pulley just what I saw someone else post up. I used 124mm for OEM, if its 122mm then I am off a bit.

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      11-28-2012, 09:27 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
Swamp I didn't know the exact size of the OEM pulley just what I saw someone else post up. I used 124mm for OEM, if its 122mm then I am off a bit.
Thanks for clarifying. This means the AA and AFE numbers in the table are still potentially off a percent or two. Anyone with a precise number here?
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      11-28-2012, 11:24 PM   #95
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Looking at your sheet swamp, there's a small error on a technicality. The AA pulley is shown as coming with 2 belts when it actually comes with 3. 2 for use with the new crank, and 1 extra belt for the double sided application. I'll try to get an exact measurement tomorrow on my removed stock pulley. I'll post a picture like Andrew did if I can find the time in the evening, using the same style digital caliper.
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      11-29-2012, 01:01 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw135er View Post
Looking at your sheet swamp, there's a small error on a technicality. The AA pulley is shown as coming with 2 belts when it actually comes with 3. 2 for use with the new crank, and 1 extra belt for the double sided application. I'll try to get an exact measurement tomorrow on my removed stock pulley. I'll post a picture like Andrew did if I can find the time in the evening, using the same style digital caliper.
Good to point out but isn't one of the belts just a spare though? My thought was to understand how many belts were used under the engine compartment at a given time and if one or both belts are off the shelf or special.

Thanks in advance for any measurements you can share. IMHO there is absolutely no need to post a fancy picture like that "proving" a number. If you're a contributing member here and you know how to zero and use a caliper, no one should question a simple distance measurement on a small part. Really - don't waste your time.
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      11-29-2012, 09:34 PM   #97
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Macht Schnell pulleys, dose 6 speed and DCT use the same pulleys or different?
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      11-30-2012, 12:05 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentino_RS View Post
Macht Schnell pulleys, dose 6 speed and DCT use the same pulleys or different?
After 2008 I believe they do..

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      12-02-2012, 11:26 AM   #99
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Is there any proof that the underdrive on the water pump actually has an effect in high rpm running? Many OEM pumps are on the right side of their envelope once you get within 2000 rpm of redline, underdriving the pump can actually help on-track cooling on some cars.
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      12-03-2012, 02:53 AM   #100
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I understand cooling may be diminished and depending on the pulley setup you choose the A/C system as well.

But has anyone running these pulleys noticed any power steering lag during quick corrections? I would hate to install a set and then have the power steering not react 100% while quickly correcting unanticipated oversteer, etc.

Also, I haven't seen the charging system addressed. All of these pulleys must underdrive the alternator as well? I know the M3 charge system is already very weak.. just spent $500 on a new battery.
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      12-03-2012, 11:45 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W Cole View Post
I understand cooling may be diminished and depending on the pulley setup you choose the A/C system as well.

But has anyone running these pulleys noticed any power steering lag during quick corrections? I would hate to install a set and then have the power steering not react 100% while quickly correcting unanticipated oversteer, etc

Also, I haven't seen the charging system addressed. All of these pulleys must underdrive the alternator as well? I know the M3 charge system is already very weak.. just spent $500 on a new battery.
I've had no issues with the AA pulley. I also run two amps and a sub in the trunk with no battery drain issues.
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      12-03-2012, 02:09 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W Cole View Post
But has anyone running these pulleys noticed any power steering lag during quick corrections? I would hate to install a set and then have the power steering not react 100% while quickly correcting unanticipated oversteer, etc.
Some speculation but I would expect if there was not enough rpm/power/pressure in the PS system that the response would be a heavier feel rather than a lack of response. Due to safety the power steering is almost always a boost on what can be done purely manually.
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      12-03-2012, 08:12 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
Thanks in advance for any measurements you can share. IMHO there is absolutely no need to post a fancy picture like that "proving" a number. If you're a contributing member here and you know how to zero and use a caliper, no one should question a simple distance measurement on a small part. Really - don't waste your time.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. The jaws on my caliper didn't reach the center since they are only 2" long, so I had to measure the overall diameter and then subtract the lip on the pulley. The outer diameter is 125.17mm and using a straight edge I measured 2.2mm, X2 for each side. Based on that I measure 120.77. So one could easily say 121mm to use as a reference for calculations.
Yes you are correct that the AA kit requires 2 special belts, but it does comes with 3. In case you or anyone didn't know that, I thought I would mention it.
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      12-04-2012, 09:31 AM   #104
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Yes it comes with an extra double sided belt. Just in case You will receive 3 belts total in our pulley kit.
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      12-10-2012, 12:54 AM   #105
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No responses from the other vendors/manufacturers. Let's keep bugging them and get some real numbers!
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      12-27-2012, 05:33 PM   #106
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Here you go!

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      12-27-2012, 07:44 PM   #107
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Here you go!

Nice!!
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      12-31-2012, 06:55 AM   #108
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I've read that the e9x M cars decouple the alternator under full throttle.

Assuming this is true, the % by which the alternator pulley is underdriven is irrelevant with respect to peak hp gains.
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      12-31-2012, 04:24 PM   #109
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exactly! I always have preached underdrive pulley's no longer are worth it. The A/C and alternator are already disengaged under large throttle which means the only thing that is underdriven is power-steering and engine cooling. The two things I would never want to have heat up more than normal.

In older cars it was more worth it because you had all 4 systems sucking power but in new bimmers, you only have the water pump and power steering sucking power.

I hope with newer engines they go with electrical water pump like the N52 engine. That way it would completely eliminate the need for an underdrive pulley. Especially if they go electric steering which they will.

Actually may eliminate the need for a accessory drive if they can change how the A/C is run.

This would probably free up 15-20 hp consistently in cars and save on mileage. That is a win-win and should be the focus for bmw on m cars rather than going turbo.

Lighter cars and elimination of parastic losses and direct injection could have netted great mileage on naturally aspirated high revving cars to meet both mileage and enthusiast desires
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      01-06-2013, 08:32 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Updated.

Link to edit.
The chart above is definitely incorrect in regards to the macht schnell pulleys. I just installed them this past week and the crank pulley is smaller on both the power steering and alternator sides therefore the A/C has to be underdriven. The power steering pump pulley is definitely a different size than OEM so the power steering is being underdriven by a different amount than the A/C, but none the less both are underdriven.

Unfortunately I did not have a pair of calipers large enough to fit around the pulleys. Can anyone from EAS chime in with the measurements?
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