Update on fixed calipers for oem discs

[mlhj83]

For The Tech: Any update on this? Cheers.

[bigjae1976]

What kind of fixed calipers?

From my experience on my E46, there is a significant difference between the OE euro floating rotor and the Stoptech Aero Rotor. The ST rotor just lasts a lot longer. The OE floaters wore pretty well but I had to replace because of heat cracking after 2 sets of pads.

[Vic311]

Ever heard of PM?

But since you created a thread..what is this about?

[THE TECH]

Sorry about the delay on this project. I had to move it the back burner since I moved across the country. TO answer your question though, the calipers are ready but we have to do some testing before they can be released.

[Vic311]

Informative thread

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

What kind of fixed calipers?

From my experience on my E46, there is a significant difference between the OE euro floating rotor and the Stoptech Aero Rotor. The ST rotor just lasts a lot longer. The OE floaters wore pretty well but I had to replace because of heat cracking after 2 sets of pads.

A full fledge BBK definitely performs better, but there are some practical advantages in upgrading just the calipers.

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Sorry about the delay on this project. I had to move it the back burner since I moved across the country. TO answer your question though, the calipers are ready but we have to do some testing before they can be released.

Thanks, looking forward to hearing more about it.

Originally Posted by Vic311

Informative thread

This project has been ongoing for sometime and it's well known by those who have been following the threads. There are quite a few who are interested, therefore, I started a thread for the benefit of the others who are interested as well, instead of using PM.

[r53s65e90]

This has been around for a while. Caliper uses wrx shape pads, which are small and comparable to our stock pads. I dont't know if they match the swept area by the stock pads, as I didn't research further. If they don't, effective radius will be bigger, which means brake torque forward is increased and so brake balance is affected. I think it is generally difficult to create a fixed piston caliper for the stock rotors because of pad choice.

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by r53s65e90

This has been around for a while. Caliper uses wrx shape pads, which are small and comparable to our stock pads. I dont't know if they match the swept area by the stock pads, as I didn't research further. If they don't, effective radius will be bigger, which means brake torque forward is increased and so brake balance is affected. I think it is generally difficult to create a fixed piston caliper for the stock rotors because of pad choice.

As far as I know the caliper being developed by TECH and his team isn't an existing caliper with adaptations to fit, but rather a custom solution from a reputable manufacturer specifically engineered for our cars. I may be wrong, but this is what I remember reading.

[Vic311]

So what exactly is lacking with the stock caliper?

I agree with Bigjae..might aswell do it right and go BBK..otherwise if staying OEM..pad upgraded is all thats really called for.

[kchu221]

is this kind of like the spoon calipers for the honda s2k?? i belive the spoon calipers for those cars use the existing stock rotors and just change the calipers to spoon...

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by Vic311

So what exactly is lacking with the stock caliper?

I agree with Bigjae..might aswell do it right and go BBK..otherwise if staying OEM..pad upgraded is all thats really called for.

I will only change the caliper if it:
-uses a common shaped pad
-has a larger friction surface area than OEM
-has taken brake torque, balance and heat into account

I have a lot of practical reasons to not want a BBK that I shan't bore you with, but neither am I looking to upgrade the caliper just for cosmetic purposes. I'm happy with the performance of track pads with the OEM setup and don't need the additional thermal capacity of a BBK as I don't tend to do more than 10-15mins of hard driving each time I go out on track. But I do like the benefits of a properly engineered fixed caliper over a sliding one.

[Vic311]

Originally Posted by mlhj83

I will only change the caliper if it:
-uses a common shaped pad
-has a larger friction surface area than OEM
-has taken brake torque, balance and heat into account

I have a lot of practical reasons to not want a BBK that I shan't bore you with, but neither am I looking to upgrade the caliper just for cosmetic purposes. I'm happy with the performance of track pads with the OEM setup and don't need the additional thermal capacity of a BBK as I don't tend to do more than 10-15mins of hard driving each time I go out on track. But I do like the benefits of a properly engineered fixed caliper over a sliding one.

I can appreciate that. I am at a bit of a disadvantage not being in the loop on the original thread and what the benefits are between a fixed and this sliding caliper.

[jonasaurus]

Originally Posted by mlhj83

I will only change the caliper if it:
-uses a common shaped pad
-has a larger friction surface area than OEM
-has taken brake torque, balance and heat into account

I have a lot of practical reasons to not want a BBK that I shan't bore you with, but neither am I looking to upgrade the caliper just for cosmetic purposes. I'm happy with the performance of track pads with the OEM setup and don't need the additional thermal capacity of a BBK as I don't tend to do more than 10-15mins of hard driving each time I go out on track. But I do like the benefits of a properly engineered fixed caliper over a sliding one.

As we talked about last time, been looking at BBK options over Xmas, APs still look like the go (as far as fitting under the OEM 18s) but this also seems like an interesting option if it were to work out

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by jonasaurus

As we talked about last time, been looking at BBK options over Xmas, APs still look like the go (as far as fitting under the OEM 18s) but this also seems like an interesting option if it were to work out

I would love APs too, especially since I have had experience of both floating bobbins and AP's strap drive on my previous car. Floating bobbins can seize and wear out which can give both lateral and radial runout, the amount of salt and grime our roads tend to have just doesn't bode well for floating systems that use bobbins, thus my reluctance for Brembos. AP's still the most ideal system for us, but I just don't want spacers. If you do go for the 368mm kit, would love to see whether there's any clearance at all with our 219Ms. Go for it

[jonasaurus]

Originally Posted by mlhj83

I would love APs too, especially since I have had experience of both floating bobbins and AP's strap drive on my previous car. Floating bobbins can seize and wear out which can give both lateral and radial runout, the amount of salt and grime our roads tend to have just doesn't bode well for floating systems that use bobbins, thus my reluctance for Brembos. AP's still the most ideal system for us, but I just don't want spacers. If you do go for the 368mm kit, would love to see whether there's any clearance at all with our 219Ms. Go for it

haha Well before summer next year I will probably go down that route and see if re-positioning the weights will allow them to work with the 219Ms. If not then I'll have to run spacers! Wonder if I ran a square rear 219M setup if it would then fit without spacers on the front...

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by jonasaurus

haha Well before summer next year I will probably go down that route and see if re-positioning the weights will allow them to work with the 219Ms. If not then I'll have to run spacers! Wonder if I ran a square rear 219M setup if it would then fit without spacers on the front...

Running the rear 219 upfront will clear the AP 368 without the need for spacers, but obviously, it's additional weight and handling changes.

[osteome]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

I had to move it the back burner since I moved across the country.

Welcome to Kansas....bored yet?

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by mlhj83

I will only change the caliper if it:
-uses a common shaped pad
-has a larger friction surface area than OEM
-has taken brake torque, balance and heat into account

I have a lot of practical reasons to not want a BBK that I shan't bore you with, but neither am I looking to upgrade the caliper just for cosmetic purposes. I'm happy with the performance of track pads with the OEM setup and don't need the additional thermal capacity of a BBK as I don't tend to do more than 10-15mins of hard driving each time I go out on track. But I do like the benefits of a properly engineered fixed caliper over a sliding one.

I had an experience with a similar system. I originally had a UUC/Wilwood BBK on my E46 which used a pretty common pad shape and the OE E46 M3 rotor. It was an improvement over stock. The biggest issue (cosmetic mostly) was that the caliper didn't cover the entire rotor disc area. So it left a ring of untouched rotor around the hub as you can see in the pic below. It worked fine. It wasn't pretty and maybe it wore the pads down a little faster.

I think a system utilizing the OEM rotor can work but I'm not sure what improvements you get. Most pads for fixed calipers are more expensive. Just some food for thought.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by mlhj83

As far as I know the caliper being developed by TECH and his team isn't an existing caliper with adaptations to fit, but rather a custom solution from a reputable manufacturer specifically engineered for our cars. I may be wrong, but this is what I remember reading.

Correct. We are not adapting parts to fit.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by osteome

Welcome to Kansas....bored yet?

HAHA. Hate the weather already. Feel like I'm forced to be inside all the time.

[M3PO]

I just went to the track for the first time and I ran full track pads and race fluid. Granted I am a noob so I am hard on the brakes but this track (Big Willow) is easy on the brakes and I was still overheating the rotors. So I think that upgrading the rotors is a necessity performance wise. I do think that this could be a good cosmetic mod because our brakes are very ugly.

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by M3PO

I just went to the track for the first time and I ran full track pads and race fluid. Granted I am a noob so I am hard on the brakes but this track (Big Willow) is easy on the brakes and I was still overheating the rotors. So I think that upgrading the rotors is a necessity performance wise. I do think that this could be a good cosmetic mod because our brakes are very ugly.

Granted BBKs will perform better than OEM, but as stated in other threads, the OEM discs can take plenty of abuse with the right pads. Also, discs don't have a problem with getting too hot, unless it's to a temperature where they start becoming soft (which is very high!), but discs can get too hot for the pads and the rest of the brake system to work properly.

I've done about 26k miles and 5 track days (search mlhj83 on youtube) with my current OEM discs, and they are still going strong.