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      12-19-2012, 03:01 PM   #1
FogCityM3
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Interesting perspective on Nurburgring times

Per e1000's suggestion from other thread, thought I'd share this interesting blog post

http://rawautos.com/2012/02/uncooked...an-be-changed/
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      12-19-2012, 03:25 PM   #2
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I agree with the guy, I recall without any evidence right now that one of the Corvettes had an outstanding time on the Ring but with slicks. Not bashing the Corvette, just saying they used slicks to help the time for a better promotion.
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      12-19-2012, 03:33 PM   #3
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Which begs the question, what would a stock DCT E92 M3, on PS2's or PSS's, do with a factory driver that knew the ring well?

Take for example according to wikipedia (i know i know)

2009 Nissan GT-R, Factory driver, optional tires = 7:26.70
2011 Nissan GT-R, Horst von Saurma = 7:34
2009 Nissan GT-R. Horst von Saurma = 7:38

Ferrari 458 Italia, Sascha Bert = 7:32.92
Ferrari 458 Italia, Horst von Saurma, Michelin PS2 = 7:38

** EDIT: I'm not trying to imply that Horst is a bad driver in any way, just want to point out that much like the article says, Nurburgring times need to be taken in context. Drivers may have vastly different times, and we all should be aware that the weather changes very quickly there. Conditions may be optimal one day and poor another. Finally, tires, suspension setups, etc etc can also play a role.

I firmly believe in the right hands a showroom stock M3 could do a sub 8 minute lap, but, why does that matter? None of us are going to pull it off! At least that's how I see it.
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      12-19-2012, 04:20 PM   #4
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very interesting and a great write up, makes you think
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      12-19-2012, 04:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e1000 View Post
Which begs the question, what would a stock DCT E92 M3, on PS2's or PSS's, do with a factory driver that knew the ring well?

Take for example according to wikipedia (i know i know)

2009 Nissan GT-R, Factory driver, optional tires = 7:26.70
2011 Nissan GT-R, Horst von Saurma = 7:34
2009 Nissan GT-R. Horst von Saurma = 7:38

Ferrari 458 Italia, Sascha Bert = 7:32.92
Ferrari 458 Italia, Horst von Saurma, Michelin PS2 = 7:38

** EDIT: I'm not trying to imply that Horst is a bad driver in any way, just want to point out that much like the article says, Nurburgring times need to be taken in context. Drivers may have vastly different times, and we all should be aware that the weather changes very quickly there. Conditions may be optimal one day and poor another. Finally, tires, suspension setups, etc etc can also play a role.

I firmly believe in the right hands a showroom stock M3 could do a sub 8 minute lap, but, why does that matter? None of us are going to pull it off! At least that's how I see it.
I think it's possible in a DCT ZCP car with Michelin PSS (or comparable extreme street tire) like you mentioned, but not with PS2. A sub 8 minute lap in a stock M3 with stock brakes is probably not going to happen with Conti's, PS2's.

(I've done hundreds of track days and have actually driven the 'Ring myself.)
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      12-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #6
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Good points..when you have more at-bats, you'll have potential for more hits...who knows how many times the factory tries to get the fastest laps. Point being that absent seeing BMW's actual lap results, it's pretty hard to conclude von Saurma's time is the fastest acheiveable vs these factory drivers, where you pretty much know that is at/near/or actually the fastest achievable by anyone.

Think I read at some point that von Saurma gets 3 laps, the first being warm up, second being the timed flying lap, and third being the cool-down (lap doesn't count because exiting the track).


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1000 View Post
Which begs the question, what would a stock DCT E92 M3, on PS2's or PSS's, do with a factory driver that knew the ring well?

Take for example according to wikipedia (i know i know)

2009 Nissan GT-R, Factory driver, optional tires = 7:26.70
2011 Nissan GT-R, Horst von Saurma = 7:34
2009 Nissan GT-R. Horst von Saurma = 7:38

Ferrari 458 Italia, Sascha Bert = 7:32.92
Ferrari 458 Italia, Horst von Saurma, Michelin PS2 = 7:38

** EDIT: I'm not trying to imply that Horst is a bad driver in any way, just want to point out that much like the article says, Nurburgring times need to be taken in context. Drivers may have vastly different times, and we all should be aware that the weather changes very quickly there. Conditions may be optimal one day and poor another. Finally, tires, suspension setups, etc etc can also play a role.

I firmly believe in the right hands a showroom stock M3 could do a sub 8 minute lap, but, why does that matter? None of us are going to pull it off! At least that's how I see it.
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      12-19-2012, 05:10 PM   #7
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Good info, but I thought this was common knowledge.
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      12-20-2012, 07:50 AM   #8
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i know i'm going to sound like a kid here, but...

i'm a huge gran turismo fan. i keep the game interesting by doing time trials in various cars around the 'ring to see the best time i can come up with, and then i try to beat that time.
i know everything is tuned, and its a video game, so the actual times i put up have no relevance, but what i have realized in my game will hold true in real life- entering a corner or exiting a corner with too much speed, angle, etc., that requires correction or provokes a lack of confidence in control will add a significant amount of time to your overall time.

i'm sure the "human error" factor alone makes all cars close in comparison randomly closer or farther from each other in performance if you are simply comparing track times of a huge track like the nurburgring.
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