M3 vs...NASCAR sprint cup car...

[M3Now!]

Ha! I did a "drive a NASCAR car" event yesterday, and that's a very different experience than an M3 on the track. You know how your M is precise, and balanced, and smoothly puts its power down?

Now imagine being belted into a freakin' hot, loud, aluminium sandwich, with terrible visibility and handling like a dump truck Loose steering, pulled to the left (go figure... ), barely perceptible brakes - basically like driving a water buffalo with rocket engines.

But oh what an engine - running slicks, coming out of corners at about 60, when you floor it the back tires immediately light up and the rear end starts hopping around. And that glorious monster engine sound It was great, if you're looking for a change of pace I thoroughly recommend it!

Cheers

[kawasaki00]

It is a totally different experience for sure. A current cup car, not one of the wore out ride a long cars will run a circle around any car on the road. Absolutely no comparison. We test at a lot of road courses, most places like VIR, road atlanta, etc the cup car is even faster than a superbike.

[Porschefile]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

It is a totally different experience for sure. A current cup car, not one of the wore out ride a long cars will run a circle around any car on the road. Absolutely no comparison. We test at a lot of road courses, most places like VIR, road atlanta, etc the cup car is even faster than a superbike.

That's no surprise... bikes can't go through the corners nearly as well. They haul ass on the straights, but don't have anywhere near the same cornering ability of a decent track car, even a street legal one.

But yeah, a sprint cup car would eat up a M3 on a road course in straights and corners and brake zones. I don't know how the brakes "feel" because I haven't driven a sprint cup car, but they decel way faster than a M3 can.

OP, if it felt like it "handled like a dump truck" something was wrong with the setup or the tires were frigid or something. They can pull way more g's than a M3, even a M3 on sticky tires.

[M3Now!]

Originally Posted by Porschefile

.

OP, if it felt like it "handled like a dump truck" something was wrong with the setup or the tires were frigid or something. They can pull way more g's than a M3, even a M3 on sticky tires.

I was being slightly facetious: It hauled ass and cornered hard, it just felt distant and imprecise getting there. It was definitely faster than the M on both corners and straights.

[Porschefile]

Originally Posted by M3Now!

I was being slightly facetious: It hauled ass and cornered hard, it just felt distant and imprecise getting there. It was definitely faster than the M on both corners and straights.

Cool, thanks for sharing. I'd drive one if given the chance.

[klammer]

Originally Posted by Porschefile

Cool, thanks for sharing. I'd drive one if given the chance.

So would I

[mdoughty]

check this out. they look like a pickup from the driver's seating position, but they are extremely fast and handle great as well. go watch them entering turn 1 at watkins glen if you ever get the opportunity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL_ORIAxha4

[Rshane]

Sounds like fun. I've always wanted to drive one of those. It would be tons of fun to drive a Formula 1 car on public streets...especially through the drive thru at Popeyes.

[kotik]

Originally Posted by M3Now!

Loose steering, pulled to the left (go figure... ),

OH LOOK, IT'S A LEFT TURN, TURN LEFT, LEFT AGAIN! lol

Yea, i'm sure it's fun, and I wouldn't mind driving one for fun, but in no way is nascar a race car.. sorry, special olympics to me. Compare it to LeMans cars, DTM, Formula 1(that's in a class of its own) etc, I don't think they would compare.
but fun stuff non the less!

[alms211]

Originally Posted by kotik

OH LOOK, IT'S A LEFT TURN, TURN LEFT, LEFT AGAIN! lol

Yea, i'm sure it's fun, and I wouldn't mind driving one for fun, but in no way is nascar a race car.. sorry, special olympics to me. Compare it to LeMans cars, DTM, Formula 1(that's in a class of its own) etc, I don't think they would compare.
but fun stuff non the less!

No, hell no....going 200 mph door handle to door handle isn't racing. Hell, those guys might as well be knitting a blanket...Get real man. Is it the most inventive and interesting racing, hell no... not by a long shot. But to say it isn't racing is pure bullsh!t. No, I'm no NASCAR junkie....I much prefer F1, ALMS and Rolex series racing but I live in Realville and NASCAR is indeed racing.

[kotik]

all is relative. Reaative to automotive racing, I think NASCAR is the simplest form of it, you go around the circle. You can't tell me that going around turns is less complicated than going around a circle. Yes, I'm sure there is science involved in NASCAR, and certainly takes a skill, but everything is in comparrison to related event. I know that some NASCAR drivers actually race in other series (like most F1 drivers do, and Leman, etc), so not saying they just suck at life, but NASCAR is entertainment for certain people. Sorry, for me NASCAR is on the bottom latter of autoracing for me.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by kotik

OH LOOK, IT'S A LEFT TURN, TURN LEFT, LEFT AGAIN! lol

Yea, i'm sure it's fun, and I wouldn't mind driving one for fun, but in no way is nascar a race car.. sorry, special olympics to me. Compare it to LeMans cars, DTM, Formula 1(that's in a class of its own) etc, I don't think they would compare.
but fun stuff non the less!

It depends. At Daytona (and other high-speed ovals), these cars are handicapped down to somewhere in the 450 hp range to keep speeds down, but at, say, Watkins Glen, they're running full out with around 800 HP or so, and DTM cars might have to run for cover.

I'm not a big NASCAR fan, but I make time to record and watch these cars run at the Glen each year.

They even sound different when compared to the sound levels on the big ovals.

Bruce

[kotik]

^ sorry, i couldn't find any results for any race cars for that track. I only see club cars. I do see nascar's fastest time of 1:10, which is prob twice as fast as most ppl. Once again, I am not saying that all nascar drivers are bad, or that nascar turns worse than a civic, or that it doesn't have power, what I am saying is that the whole series races around the circle (minus like 3 tracks, right?), and in comparison to other race series, it's not all that great. I am sure a gt le mans car would be a bit quicker

[mdoughty]

i doubt a le mans gt car would be quicker.

Bmw m3 gt2 specs are 2860#, 470 horsepower

sprint cup 2013 car is 3240#, 900 horsepower

thats a huge difference in handling on the straightaways, and would presumably offset any advantage the current gt2 would have in the corners, which i doubt would be as significant as you would think. there is a ton of money and smart ppl in the series, second only to f1 in that regard.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by mdoughty

i doubt a le mans gt car would be quicker.

Bmw m3 gt2 specs are 2860#, 470 horsepower

sprint cup 2013 car is 3240#, 900 horsepower

thats a huge difference in handling on the straightaways, and would presumably offset any advantage the current gt2 would have in the corners, which i doubt would be as significant as you would think. there is a ton of money and smart ppl in the series, second only to f1 in that regard.

Everything you stated is a fact. Further more yes F1 is more technical but to me the racing sucks. There a swarm of engineers that have left f1 to come to Nascar.
Although the gt2 cars etc are fast in the corners they are quite the dogs on the straits.
Look at it fromt his perspective too, many cup drivers have raced the rolex cars and did very well, running up front and leading alot. Lots of rolex drivers etc have stepped into a cup car and they suck. Danica Patrick thought the same thing and she struggles to stay on the lead lap.

[PKizzle]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Look at it fromt his perspective too, many cup drivers have raced the rolex cars and did very well, running up front and leading alot. Lots of rolex drivers etc have stepped into a cup car and they suck. Danica Patrick thought the same thing and she struggles to stay on the lead lap.

Well put! Also look at Montoya and Jacques Villenueve. JPM was a race winning driver in F1...even considered the next big thing in F1 at one time...and JV is a F1 WDC. If F1 driving is as superior as the other poster seems to think...then these guys should have just walked into NASCAR and demolished the good 'ol boys. JPM has had only mediocre success even after all these years and JV wasn't able to do squat.

-And this is coming from someone who has not missed an F1 race in the last 10 years and has barely even watched a full NASCAR race. But having read up a bit on NASCAR, and seeing these so called F1 greats flounder...at least I know enough to not trivialize it.

[PKizzle]

Also...I bet that the people who put down NASCAR driving as 'being left turn only'...are the ones that have never actually driven their car on any real track - road course or otherwise. I am also willing to bet that any DTM, LeMans, ALMS or any other racing series driver outside of F1 would give their left nut to get a top level drive in NASCAR...and the $$$ that it would bring.

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by mdoughty

check this out. they look like a pickup from the driver's seating position, but they are extremely fast and handle great as well. go watch them entering turn 1 at watkins glen if you ever get the opportunity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL_ORIAxha4

That was fun

[adc]

Saw an older one at VIR in August and he was smoking fast. Coming out of the Hogpen I think he was accelerating to over 140 by the time he passed the garages, seemed to literally slingshot as if pulled by a giant rubber band.

But as for the drivers, I see it this way - a top level F1 driver is much more likely to extract max performance out of a cup car, and get out there in front. The opposite is simply not true - if you aren't weaned on aero cars from the beginning I doubt you can maximize a F1 car the way Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel can.

I'm not saying this with any sense of superiority, I've been enough on track to know my own skills don't even register on the scale...


The same goes for WRC, which requires a very particular set of skills. Kimi did horribly in WRC, but he still has gobs of speed in F1.

[alms211]

Originally Posted by adc

Saw an older one at VIR in August and he was smoking fast. Coming out of the Hogpen I think he was accelerating to over 140 by the time he passed the garages, seemed to literally slingshot as if pulled by a giant rubber band.

But as for the drivers, I see it this way - a top level F1 driver is much more likely to extract max performance out of a cup car, and get out there in front. The opposite is simply not true - if you aren't weaned on aero cars from the beginning I doubt you can maximize a F1 car the way Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel can.

I'm not saying this with any sense of superiority, I've been enough on track to know my own skills don't even register on the scale...


The same goes for WRC, which requires a very particular set of skills. Kimi did horribly in WRC, but he still has gobs of speed in F1.

You would be dead wrong. Montoya (a damn good driver) is imperical evidence. With equal equipment he cannot best the likes of a Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Jimmy Johnson, et al.

It is just a different type of race, a different type of car with completely different driving and handling characteristics. You proved my theory in your last sentence -- re: Kimi in WRC races.

I would bet that if each series selected 5 of their best drivers within their own series and had them drive 10 ten laps in a Cup Car, 10 laps in an F1 car, 10 laps in a Daytona Prototype car and 10 laps in a GT car and record the aggregate lap times, Tony Stewart (assuming he can still fit in an F1 car) or Jeff Gordon would have the best overall time. Why? becasue they have driven open wheel cars many times (Stewart in Indy cars) and the Cup car is the most difficult to drive and is the one they drive for a living.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by M3Now!

Ha! I did a "drive a NASCAR car" event yesterday, and that's a very different experience than an M3 on the track. You know how your M is precise, and balanced, and smoothly puts its power down?

Now imagine being belted into a freakin' hot, loud, aluminium sandwich, with terrible visibility and handling like a dump truck Loose steering, pulled to the left (go figure... ), barely perceptible brakes - basically like driving a water buffalo with rocket engines.

But oh what an engine - running slicks, coming out of corners at about 60, when you floor it the back tires immediately light up and the rear end starts hopping around. And that glorious monster engine sound It was great, if you're looking for a change of pace I thoroughly recommend it!

Cheers

To bad you couldn't drive a car setup for one of the road courses like Watkins Glen or Sears Point (or whatever they call it now) completely different feel.

I bet you had a blast...

Dave

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by kotik

all is relative. Reaative to automotive racing, I think NASCAR is the simplest form of it, you go around the circle. You can't tell me that going around turns is less complicated than going around a circle. Yes, I'm sure there is science involved in NASCAR, and certainly takes a skill, but everything is in comparrison to related event. I know that some NASCAR drivers actually race in other series (like most F1 drivers do, and Leman, etc), so not saying they just suck at life, but NASCAR is entertainment for certain people. Sorry, for me NASCAR is on the bottom latter of autoracing for me.

Have you ever been to the track? or have you ever driven a nascar style track? I honestly dont think you know what you are talking about. Nascar is as hard as any other racing and its definitely not the easiest form of racing. What about drag racing, that shit is so stupid and easy. All you do is go straight!