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      12-14-2012, 11:01 PM   #45
MiddleAgedAl
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When I was that age, and I left for school each morning, my mom was pretty safe in the assumption that the worst episode of fear or panic that I was likely going to experience that day would be caused by a pop quiz or something.

The kind of conversations that parents have to have with their kids today involves things that no parent should have to concern themselves with. Thankfully, I never had a "this is what you should do Al if a shooter appears at school" lecture.

When I was a kid, I used to roll my eyes at the adults who went on about the "good old days". Now I really understand it.
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      12-14-2012, 11:17 PM   #46
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I grew up just a town away from Newtown (in Ridgefield) and am shocked by this. My coworkers girlfriend is a teacher at Sandy Hook and at around 10am he got a call and ran out of the office. We have not heard much but she is ok. Several of her coworkers were not as lucky.
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      12-14-2012, 11:25 PM   #47
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I would also add that the many of the stats I've seen posted on here are very misleading. Major gun violence makes the headlines when things like this happen, however these instances are incredibly rare. What is not rare is inner city violence. Those are the instances that drive up the "per 100k" figures. For most of the country, gun violence is extremely rare.
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      12-15-2012, 12:12 AM   #48
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funny thing is that the second week of my son being in K this year, they had an emergency "stranger danger" drill while i was picking him up early.

i signed him out at the principal's office and walked about 20 feet to his classroom.

i closed the door and made Carlitos tell all of his friends bye - we took less than 20 paces and heard the bell go off 3 times.

i personally didn't know what was happening, but then a teacher's aid came out of the office and told me "this is a drill, take him back into the classroom and secure ya'llselves in there with the teacher".

so i rushed him about 20 feet back through his teacher's door.

Mrs Lee had all the kids lined up against the wall, in a corner of the room where none of the kids could be seen from the window of the door.

some of the kids were nervous but only 1 girl started crying because she was scared.

she explained to them what was happening and what they should do in an event that "someone was outside the classroom wanting to hurt them".

teacher's and counselors looked legit in the way they were conducting this drill - i was very impressed with how structured they were - and how well they communicated.

never paid that much attention to it until i heard what happened this afternoon.......
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      12-15-2012, 12:17 AM   #49
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funny thing is that the second week of my son being in K this year, they had an emergency "stranger danger" drill while i was picking him up early.

i signed him out at the principal's office and walked about 20 feet to his classroom.

i closed the door and made Carlitos tell all of his friends bye - we took less than 20 paces and heard the bell go off 3 times.

i personally didn't know what was happening, but then a teacher's aid came out of the office and told me "this is a drill, take him back into the classroom and secure ya'llselves in there with the teacher".

so i rushed him about 20 feet back through his teacher's door.

Mrs Lee had all the kids lined up against the wall, in a corner of the room where none of the kids could be seen from the window of the door.

some of the kids were nervous but only 1 girl started crying because she was scared.

she explained to them what was happening and what they should do in an event that "someone was outside the classroom wanting to hurt them".

teacher's and counselors looked legit in the way they were conducting this drill - i was very impressed with how structured they were - and how well they communicated.

never paid that much attention to it until i heard what happened this afternoon.......
We need this stuff here. But then again, some schools here have CCTV and armed gaurds at the front gate... not so much the public schools.

RIP the lost souls and condolences to the family and friends.
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      12-15-2012, 01:05 AM   #50
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The issue of mental health and treatment options should be the focal point, not responsible gun ownership.

If this assailant had used a bomb made of diesel fuel and fertilizer, would we then say let’s ban the sale of diesel and fertilizer? Of course not, because the method used is incidental..not the underlying cause. That cause is the mentally ill or unstable, who go unrecognized without proper treatment options
Somewhat like logical arguments on this board....

But your right. Kids these days are under a tremendous amount of pressure to "fit in" with ever lessening guidance and affection from parents. Couple that with the amount of dramatic violence for entertainment kids get these days and instead of getting a suicide note and an overdose you get a mass shooting and gunshot to the head.

It's easy for everyone to say that these things wouldn't happen if there were no guns. But in reality no one knows that to be true. It could cause much worse things to happen such as diesel and fertilizer bombs, etc...

We can't make a perfect society where murders don't happen and people don't snap and go crazy. As nice as that sounds, there will always be people who want to watch the world burn.

Something widely overlooked in these discussions is the lack of serious consequences for the perps who don't off themselves like a coward. The Aurora punk is still waiting trial. WTF for. I hate to say it but if they take people like that out back and put them in front of the firing squad it may effect the willingness of others to commit the same crime. And before someone says that wouldn't deter people, then what makes you think stricter gun laws would deter them?
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Last edited by Mr Tonka; 12-15-2012 at 01:11 AM.
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      12-15-2012, 01:05 AM   #51
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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." Plato

Seriously more restrictions/banning won't do a damn thing to stop someone hell bent on causing havoc and terror for society. What's to stop someone from going to a gas station making a dozen Molotov cocktails and using that to attack a school, mall, movie cinema, ect . . .
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      12-15-2012, 01:18 AM   #52
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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." Plato

Seriously more restrictions/banning won't do a damn thing to stop someone hell bent on causing havoc and terror for society. What's to stop someone from going to a gas station making a dozen Molotov cocktails and using that to attack a school, mall, movie cinema, ect . . .
Can you imagine how much worse things would have been if the kid in Aurora put a bike lock on the theater doors and started throwing homemade incendiary devices....
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      12-15-2012, 01:20 AM   #53
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Somewhat like logical arguments on this board....

But your right. Kids these days are under a tremendous amount of pressure to "fit in" with ever lessening guidance and affection from parents. Couple that with the amount of dramatic violence for entertainment kids get these days and instead of getting a suicide note and an overdose you get a mass shooting and gunshot to the head.

It's easy for everyone to say that these things wouldn't happen if there were no guns. But in reality no one knows that to be true. It could cause much worse things to happen such as diesel and fertilizer bombs, etc...

We can't make a perfect society where murders don't happen and people don't snap and go crazy. As nice as that sounds, there will always be people who want to watch the world burn.

Something widely overlooked in these discussions is the lack of serious consequences for the perps who don't off themselves like a coward. The Aurora punk is still waiting trial. WTF for. I hate to say it but if they take people like that out back and put them in front of the firing squad it may effect the willingness of others to commit the same crime. And before someone says that wouldn't deter people, then what makes you think stricter gun laws would deter them?
Agree ..automatic death penalty,.thats the deterent thats needed. But with the legal process the way it is they spend years going from a court to a jail cell before even serving time
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      12-15-2012, 01:22 AM   #54
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now that would be terrible
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      12-15-2012, 01:22 AM   #55
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Can you imagine how much worse things would have been if the kid in Aurora put a bike lock on the theater doors and started throwing homemade incendiary devices....
Exactly and from what I remember didn't he have his whole apartment set up with pipe bomb traps. As much as it hurts for me to say this I'm happy the idiot stuck to his AR & glocks because a pipe bomb set off in a packed movie like that would have been dozens dead and injured.
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      12-15-2012, 01:28 AM   #56
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what the gov't (federal, state and local) needs to do is have secure entry and exit points, with armed guards/officers and metal detectors at EACH AND EVERY school..period..Just like the courts

How many school shootings have to happen before the politicians realize this?
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The issue of mental health and treatment options should be the focal point, not responsible gun ownership.
That's how you solve that problem.. not arming teachers in classrooms
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      12-15-2012, 01:30 AM   #57
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Agree ..automatic death penalty,.thats the deterent thats needed. But with the legal process the way it is they spend years going from a court to a jail cell before even serving time
yet people like Martha stewart and mike vick are indicted, tried and sentenced in a fraction of the time. WTF!?!?
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      12-15-2012, 01:39 AM   #58
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You think the death penalty will deter these kinds of people? The dude just killed 20 children and blew his own brains out immediately afterward.
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      12-15-2012, 06:21 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by philthy84 View Post
Seriously more restrictions/banning won't do a damn thing to stop someone hell bent on causing havoc and terror for society. What's to stop someone from going to a gas station making a dozen Molotov cocktails and using that to attack a school, mall, movie cinema, ect . . .
You rather some crazy dude come at you with a molotov cocktail or a fucking ak47?

You gun nuts have had your heads in your asses for way too long. How many more massacres is it going to take for you to wake the damn up. It's time to put a ban on this bullshit.

You really think mental therapy with Dr. Joe Blow for 30 minutes a week is going to fix these psychopaths? Give me a break. Metal detectors? Harsher penalties? Gosh.
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      12-15-2012, 08:37 AM   #60
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You rather some crazy dude come at you with a molotov cocktail or a fucking ak47?

You gun nuts have had your heads in your asses for way too long. How many more massacres is it going to take for you to wake the damn up. It's time to put a ban on this bullshit.

You really think mental therapy with Dr. Joe Blow for 30 minutes a week is going to fix these psychopaths? Give me a break. Metal detectors? Harsher penalties? Gosh.
So what do you suggest? Bad all guns? You know meth, cocaine, etc are illegal and people don't seem to have a problem getting their hands on it. Maybe let's just ban schools instead so there will be no more school shootings.

Also, it appears that this kid was using pistols and not an ak47. A common 9mm handgun will kill someone just the same as an assault rifle...

Sorry to turn this into a gun debate thread I just had to comment on this rash and ignorant post. I agree with others saying we need to do more to identify these people as potential threats and for mental illness. Seems like there are always warning signs that close friends and family members notice before someone does something like this.

Terrible terrible tragedy. I can't fathom how someone could do something like this.
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      12-15-2012, 08:41 AM   #61
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I'm beginning to wonder about our mental health "professionals" and the system that identifies and deals with these individuals.

A quick review of the past tragedies at VT, Tuscon, and Aurora reveals that the individuals were deranged and no one said anything about it to the proper authorities, or dealt with them in an appropriate way. The VT shooter had mental issues since high school or before, and had been evaluated by doctors but it was never put into the system, had it been he would have been denied the right to purchase the gun. Same with the Tuscon shooting, he was deranged, kicked out of college and teachers feared him, but no one reported it, just wanted to get rid of him. He was to go through a mental evaluation prior to returning to school.
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      12-15-2012, 09:15 AM   #62
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^ right on. I dont know exactly what the answer is but people need to be more cognizant of the warning signs and proper action needs to be taken to monitor these individuals and potentially prevent them from carrying out these atrocities.
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      12-15-2012, 11:27 AM   #63
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Everyone is trying to blame this to one single thing and looking for a single solution. Pro-gun people are so fixed on defending gun they are failing to see that part of the problem is gun. Anti-gun people are so quick to blame this on guns that they don’t see that there are other problems. Part of the problem is gun, part of the problem is mental health system, part of the problem is school and security, part of the problem is justice system…. There is no single solution to this. Sometimes there is no solution. Maybe this is best we could do. People need to put their egos, agendas, and politics aside and review each and every single element that might have contributed to this. This is too much of a tragedy to let partiality keep us from finding a fix.
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      12-15-2012, 01:26 PM   #64
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The reality is that it is fucking simple to fix. It is way too easy for anybody with mental health problems (or not) to buy guns and assault rifles.

To say that teachers should be armed is so stupid it blows my mind! Yeah, let's give elementary school teachers handguns to stop a crazy fuck with an assault rifle. How do we train them? A couple of hours of safety courses on the gun range?

I'm a trained soldier and let me tell you there is a big fucking difference between firing a gun in a controlled environment, and shooting under enormous stress... even with intensive training. Anybody who suggests that has no clue. This only works if you have trained extensively that you start doing things automatically.

To say that there is no simple solution is living in a fantasy land. The solution is gun control. Will it solve everything? No. But it is a start. You can do far more damage with an assault rifle than with some home made weapon. And give me one good reason why anybody outside the military or law enforcement should own an assault rifle?

I'm not opposed to guns, they serve a purpose, I used them, but they have no place in untrained hands. And again, I'm not talking about a simple concealed carry course.
Why do you keep talking about assault rifles? This was done with a couple of handguns... Care to explain to me what your version of an assault rifle is?

FWIW, I'm not agreeing with arming teachers to the teeth, but disarming everyone isn't the answer either. How many guns did Timothy McVeigh use to kill 150+ people and injure almost 600?
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      12-15-2012, 02:26 PM   #65
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everyone there was defenseless. school is a gun free zone.
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      12-15-2012, 03:00 PM   #66
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The reality is that it is fucking simple to fix. It is way too easy for anybody with mental health problems (or not) to buy guns and assault rifles.

To say that teachers should be armed is so stupid it blows my mind! Yeah, let's give elementary school teachers handguns to stop a crazy fuck with an assault rifle. How do we train them? A couple of hours of safety courses on the gun range?

I'm a trained soldier and let me tell you there is a big fucking difference between firing a gun in a controlled environment, and shooting under enormous stress... even with intensive training. Anybody who suggests that has no clue. This only works if you have trained extensively that you start doing things automatically.

To say that there is no simple solution is living in a fantasy land. The solution is gun control. Will it solve everything? No. But it is a start. You can do far more damage with an assault rifle than with some home made weapon. And give me one good reason why anybody outside the military or law enforcement should own an assault rifle?

I'm not opposed to guns, they serve a purpose, I used them, but they have no place in untrained hands. And again, I'm not talking about a simple concealed carry course.
Yes, but gun control to what end?..in the case of CT, the gunman stole his mother's legally obtained guns to commit his crimes, so gun control would have done nothing to prevent this tragedy, and we are talking about CT here..with some of the strictest gun regulations in the country.
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