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      12-14-2012, 06:03 PM   #23
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      12-14-2012, 06:07 PM   #24
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More guns is not the solution to a friggin gun problem. No elementary school teacher armed with a handgun can take down a guy with an assault rifle.
This is not a gun problem. The problem is that a person that was not mentally stable had access to guns. Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

I guarantee that if somebody wanted to shoot up a school but then realized that there are 30+ armed teachers in that school, they would think twice about it.

Teachers have no way of protecting themselves. Let's leave a grown adult defenseless against a person with a gun. THAT'S SMART. Maybe they have a strong arm and can throw pencils and chalk at the shooter. Or maybe the shooter will run into the pencil sharpener on the wall and hurt his arm so he can't shoot anybody. That will keep children safe.

EDIT: P.S. The shooter used two 9mm pistols. Correct me if I'm wrong, assault rifles are banned in CT. Just as much damage can be dealt with two handguns compared to an assault rifle.
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      12-14-2012, 06:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Pontrelli View Post
I do as well..but in this case..a teacher (mother) who has to shoot her own son (assailant)?..I cant even begin to imagine that.
This an extreme case, I would say. But if other teachers were armed, they wouldn't care who he was if their lives are in jeopardy.
Exactly. Most of these cowards wear masks etc.. You wouldn't consider who was behind the gun. A trained person would find cover and shoot back.
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      12-14-2012, 06:09 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat View Post
Most gun related injuries and deaths are due to accidental discharges. You would really be more comfortable with teachers all across the country being armed, leaving literally hundreds of thousands of guns just lying around schools? What on Earth could possibly be going through your head to reach that conclusion.
well the ideal situation wouldnt just be handing out loaded pistols to every teacher and having them stuff it in their desk with everything else. If you actually sat down and thought logically about it you could create a very reasonable system to arm teachers. The more important thing is teaching them how to handle the weapons, but proper training for something like that with people like that would take a lot of time.

Just typing this I thought about a system where the teachers could have an electronic lock box under their desk where the principal would have to remotely unlock them for the teachers to use. This would prevent accidental discharged and mis-handling issues. It wouldn't be too hard to create a system like this with today's technology either. Schools are getting so sophisticated with security technology now something like this would just be an add on.
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      12-14-2012, 06:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvergray545 View Post
This is not a gun problem. The problem is that a person that was not mentally stable had access to guns. Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

I guarantee that if somebody wanted to shoot up a school but then realized that there are 30+ armed teachers in that school, they would think twice about it.

Teachers have no way of protecting themselves. Let's leave a grown adult defenseless against a person with a gun. THAT'S SMART. Maybe they have a strong arm and can throw pencils and chalk at the shooter. Or maybe the shooter will run into the pencil sharpener on the wall and hurt his arm so he can shoot anybody. That will keep children safe.
I agree with some of your points..especially the right to bear arms..which I staunchly support.. However the gunmen in these scenarios already have a death wish and most often commit these heinous acts with the intention of dying (either by their hand or someone else's) So not sure how much good arming teachers would be, what the gov't (federal, state and local) needs to do is have secure entry and exit points, with armed guards/officers and metal detectors at EACH AND EVERY school..period..Just like the courts

How many school shootings have to happen before the politicians realize this?
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      12-14-2012, 06:26 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Pontrelli View Post
I agree with some of your points..especially the right to bear arms..which I staunchly support.. However the gunmen in these scenarios already have a death wish and most often commit these heinous acts with the intention of dying (either by their hand or someone else's) So not sure how much good arming teachers would be, what the gov't (federal, state and local) needs to do is have secure entry and exit points, with armed guards/officers and metal detectors at EACH AND EVERY school..period..Just like the courts

How many school shootings have to happen before the politicians realize this?
This should have been done a long time ago.

I'm not disagreeing with your post. But, it is now not safe to send your children to school. The only way to get some sort of defense into a school is to call the police. By the time the police get to the school, 27 people are killed and 20 are injured. And the gunman had time to take his own life. Too late.
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      12-14-2012, 06:30 PM   #29
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what the gov't (federal, state and local) needs to do is have secure entry and exit points, with armed guards/officers and metal detectors at EACH AND EVERY school..period..Just like the courts
This idea sounds good to me..

People who teach grade 1 students tend to have a certain disposition in order to be good at that. It seems intuitively implausible that someone who is gifted at communicating with 8 year olds would be well suited to remain calm while accurately returning gunfire with an assailant. Just like how a trained, armed badass at the locked door, who could fall back on his training and coldly take down a shooter at the school would also not likely be naturally gifted in the area of teaching poetry to sensitive young girl.

Put people in the roles they are best at, or have been trained for, rather than arming the teachers.
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      12-14-2012, 06:35 PM   #30
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This is disgusting. It seems as it's getting worse and worse. Almost as if they are trying to one up previous massacre....

We really need to find a realistic solution to this. I don't think there is one single solution that will solve this. There needs to be solutions at macro and micro level.
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      12-14-2012, 06:40 PM   #31
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Hell must be getting awfully full these days. People make me sick. Prayers to all those affected, no one should know that type of pain.
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      12-14-2012, 06:52 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontrelli View Post
I agree with some of your points..especially the right to bear arms..which I staunchly support.. However the gunmen in these scenarios already have a death wish and most often commit these heinous acts with the intention of dying (either by their hand or someone else's) So not sure how much good arming teachers would be, what the gov't (federal, state and local) needs to do is have secure entry and exit points, with armed guards/officers and metal detectors at EACH AND EVERY school..period..Just like the courts

How many school shootings have to happen before the politicians realize this?
I can't disagree that this would drastically if not totally fix the school shooting problem. But the logistics are daunting at best.

Most people grossly underestimate the number of public schools in this country. There are 109 public schools in my county. Each school has multiple entry points since the lions share of them are not fenced in. (only about 35 are fenced in) It's a logistical nightmare and a tremendous financial burden. I do work in these schools and i can tell you right now there almost no way to make this happen. Each county has a different school board, with different ways of doing things and different budgets, etc.... The school boards where i am don't even have a 10th of the budget that would be necessary to even procure the tangible materials needed to make this happen let alone the annual salary of the security personnel.

Don't get me wrong, i like the idea, but it's got an ice cubes chance in hell of happening.

Quote:
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This idea sounds good to me..

People who teach grade 1 students tend to have a certain disposition in order to be good at that. It seems intuitively implausible that someone who is gifted at communicating with 8 year olds would be well suited to remain calm while accurately returning gunfire with an assailant. Just like how a trained, armed badass at the locked door, who could fall back on his training and coldly take down a shooter at the school would also not likely be naturally gifted in the area of teaching poetry to sensitive young girl.

Put people in the roles they are best at, or have been trained for, rather than arming the teachers.
Agree, ideally all teachers would be retired special opps personnel but that's about as likely as the scenario above.
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      12-14-2012, 07:36 PM   #33
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here's your shooter. check out the date for born in the bottom and the inscription on his wrist "I would die 4 u". creepy!
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      12-14-2012, 07:37 PM   #34
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More guns is not the solution to a friggin gun problem. No elementary school teacher armed with a handgun can take down a guy with an assault rifle.
but she can sure stop him from killing 20 kids....

all you have to do is deter the suspect...
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      12-14-2012, 07:41 PM   #35
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in a perfect world, all of our teachers would be former Marines with Masters Degrees and minimum of 10 years in weapons handeling.

they would start off making $100K a year or something rediculous......

anyways, that was just me being fasicious (sp).

i won't get on my "parent high horse", but i can relate the panic and emotional distress that these parents were feeling when they first recieved a call that there was a shooter killing people at their child's school.....
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      12-14-2012, 10:14 PM   #36
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I am sitting next to a bathtub right now that has my 2 1/2 year old in it. I can not imagine what the parents of those kids are going through right now. My thoughts and prayers are with them tonight.
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      12-14-2012, 10:23 PM   #37
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Here in CA, Senator Lee is reinstating the bullet button ban on rifles. I thought the gun man used a Glock and Sig.
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      12-14-2012, 10:32 PM   #38
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Here in CA, Senator Lee is reinstating the bullet button ban on rifles. I thought the gun man used a Glock and Sig.
it was 'pulled'
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      12-14-2012, 10:40 PM   #39
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In the wake of this unspeakable tragedy, I would respectfully request that this thread not degrade into the exchanging of personal attacks and insults.

I don't ask for much (if anything) around here guys but please, honor this one request.

Thank you.
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      12-14-2012, 10:42 PM   #40
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Here in CA, Senator Lee is reinstating the bullet button ban on rifles. I thought the gun man used a Glock and Sig.
Edit: 2 Handguns, the Rifle was found inside the shooter's car

Last edited by benzy89; 12-14-2012 at 11:09 PM.
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      12-14-2012, 10:45 PM   #41
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it's sad that influential people use tradgities to push their political agenda rather then talk about the only thing that will help in this country, recognizing mental illness and giving people (families and loved ones) tools that they can use to prevent these kinds of things.

There is always someone who is 'not surprised' that an individual did something horrific, but until a crime is committed there is very little that anyone can do.

Furthermore, this crime was committed (as I understand it) in a state with very strict gun laws, and he was from a state with very strict gun laws. He was not of legal age to purchase a handgun or handgun ammunition. It is my opinion that gun laws do very little prevent these tradgities.
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      12-14-2012, 10:49 PM   #42
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One thing that is disturbing to me is the culture of violence we live in today.

Our parents grew up with "Leave it to Beaver" and "Father Knows Best" and now our children are growing up with "Dexter" et al.
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      12-14-2012, 10:55 PM   #43
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One thing that is disturbing to me is the culture of violence we live in today.

Our parents grew up with "Leave it to Beaver" and "Father Knows Best" and now our children are growing up with "Dexter" et al.
and back then you could get a gun in the mail, or at any auto supply or hardware store
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      12-14-2012, 10:59 PM   #44
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1 Rifle & 2 Handguns
The crime/death rate of firearm related crimes are highest in this country where firearms are specifically outlawed -- Washington DC & Chicago.

You also realize that by taking firearms away from people who follow the laws & use them to defend themselves, you leave these people completely defenseless. Meanwhile, the people that look to take these weapons & commit heinous crimes obtain them illegally.

Gun Rights have existed for over 200 years, the real problem is this society's refusal to deal with the real problem -- People's mental health. There is no incident that all the shooters of these recent firearm attacks (Rep. Giffords, the Aurora Shootings & the Newton CT) were far from mentally "healthy"


The issue of mental health and treatment options should be the focal point, not responsible gun ownership.

If this assailant had used a bomb made of diesel fuel and fertilizer, would we then say let’s ban the sale of diesel and fertilizer? Of course not, because the method used is incidental..not the underlying cause. That cause is the mentally ill or unstable, who go unrecognized without proper treatment options
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