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      12-11-2012, 02:42 PM   #23
Kernel Kurtz
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The Model S is really interesting. I could see myself in something like that one day, but for now internal combustion still does the trick.

I could really rock one of these

http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i8/

But I will never be able to afford one :-(
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      12-11-2012, 02:49 PM   #24
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Id be on it the moment stations become ubiquitous (which will happen when fuel gets too expensive).
I think hydrogen from renewable energy will be the future of transportation.

Not in my lifetime, though.

If it does, I could rock one of these too

http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/0_0_www_bm...eanenergy.html

Unfortunately I will not likely be able to afford that either :-(
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      12-11-2012, 03:13 PM   #25
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I saw one in August parked outside my dad and I's favorite mexican place. That car is so gorgeous.

I won't be getting one but I'm suggesting one for my dad since he drives about ~100 miles away and needs a new ride...and I might get to drive it occasionally too. I can't wait to see how automobiles have changed in 15 years when I'll have good money to put down on a nice car, everything in the world has been advancing so fast.
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      12-11-2012, 03:58 PM   #26
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my friend picked me up in a Model S last friday. have to say... i was thoroughly impressed. this was the top end model--not sure what all the gadgets were but i guess it was the 'performance model' with bucket seats and what not.

first impressions was it reminded me of the porsche pa benamera in size and shape. exterior beauty is subjective obviously, but i personally think from the front and rear, the car looks amazing. i'm not that happy with the sides tho--it might be because of the chrome trim, which i'm not very fond of.

i sat in the back, and those leather seats were pretty damn comfortable. i wasn't expecting it to be as roomy either, but it can definitely fit wider/taller people. the center piece is basically that huge ass touch screen. controls pretty much everything in the car from music/sound to temperature, etc--plus you can surf the internets without straining ur eyes! (not that you would want to do that while driving)

not sure how much power the engine was rated... im guessing 350-400hp on the higher end model? torque on tap through manhattan... pretty much overkill, but nonetheless very fun. overall i liked the car. i would definitely consider a lower end model in the future.
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      12-11-2012, 04:10 PM   #27
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Quite possibly. But I'm sure many other car companies, including BMW (as they have already started) will be creating hybrid and electric sports cars to match, or even exceed, Tesla.

I just want some exhaust/engine noise! Even it if its fake...
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      12-11-2012, 04:17 PM   #28
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I thought about a tesla before the 335is I just bought. I was at the showroom and asked how much it would cost to drive between Seattle and Portland. 420 miles round trip. Answer was just a couple of bucks. So I asked how long the charge in Portland or at 3/4 empty. Something like 12 hours at 110 volts. So the trip is not one day it's two and a night stay at $200.00 plus food the charge the battery.

So these cars are daily commuters and test beds. Fast yes! Pretty yes! Practical. Not really. However the 300 mile range had me considering the car seriously. Also that range varies depending on heating and cooling requirement in the car. The colder it is the less range due to battery inefficiencies.


The charge time just killed me though. Give me a heat engine any day right now.
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      12-11-2012, 07:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
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The charge time just killed me though. Give me a heat engine any day right now.
If they get their supercharger network up and running quickly enough it might not be so bad since they can charge in 30 minutes. I usually get rental cars for long trips so the range thing doesn't bother me too much in that sense. Unfortunately if you're living in an apartment it would be really difficult since you likely could not install their chargers and using the standard 110V outlets takes forever like you say.
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      12-11-2012, 08:26 PM   #30
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220 is easily installable in most houses, and that would halve the charge time. Pretty soon they'll have home-installable superchargers (see what I did there?) which will give a full charge in a matter of a few dozens of minutes rather than a few hours.
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      12-11-2012, 08:27 PM   #31
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And it won't be long before new battery tech is implemented.
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      12-11-2012, 08:49 PM   #32
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I don't see Tesla as a viable concern in 2-3 years, and I don't see Fisker as a viable concern in 2013. Sure, someone big could snap up the name and brand and keep them going, but they are just not in a market that provides enough cash flow for a car business.
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      12-11-2012, 09:04 PM   #33
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Today, a friend of mine took me for an hour ride in his brand new Tesla S.

Smooth, quiet and powerful. 0-60 in 4.4 seconds. And no tranny! The only sound comes from the tires. Two huge screens, which seems like an overkill. Refined. And expensive: $93K - $10K in tax credits (in CA).

After I got out of his car and back into mine, mine felt like old technology but much sportier.

If I could afford one, I'd consider it as a second car. But I'd keep my 3 series too.

Last edited by driverman; 12-11-2012 at 09:10 PM.
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      12-11-2012, 09:58 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozhdbog View Post
And it won't be long before new battery tech is implemented.
Isn't that always the case? Companies will always implement new tech in anything they make. One could just say that every year and keep on waiting or actually go out and buy something they want.
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      12-11-2012, 10:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozhdbog View Post
And it won't be long before new battery tech is implemented.
And you know this how?

Listen until gasoline, and all its synthetic substitutes are gone, the electric car is not going to be a viable alternative to the internal combustion engine. Until electric batteries reach the energy density of gasoline (which they never will) electric cars will be the vehicle of the rich and famous planet-savers and that's about it. Ion Musk thinks he can become the next Henry Ford, but it will never happen. Musk is trying to replace a technology that is cheap and plentiful with something that is expensive and not functional.

ICE car: drive 500 miles fill up with a new load of fuel in 5 minutes. Electric car: drive 230 miles and fill up with a new load of fuel in 1.5 hours (best case scenario for a full charge). Go do the math.

You need to understand this simple fact. Jet airplanes, which allow for cheap, efficient, international travel run on petroleum-based fuel. They do because the energy density is so high for jet fuel (i.e. gasoline, diesel, etc.). In other words, it is a light-weight fuel. Until the last drop (source) of light-weight, high-energy density jet fuel is about to go away, no other fuel alternative will be economically viable. This means that the industrial infrastructure that supports jet fuel will be around to make gasoline and diesel, which means ICE cars will rule the day for many lifetimes to come.

Just accept these facts and move on. Let's keep on the path of higher efficiency of burning petroleum fuel in our cars; we'll be better for it.

Rant over...
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      12-12-2012, 03:04 AM   #36
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Definitely would get its super fast. There are no more trips to gas stations. No more oil changes. Next to no maintenance.

As for the naysayers it's a rare day that your going to drive the 200+ miles in a single day. Most places you could go have a charger somewhere nearby and more being added daily. Renting a car for the once a year drive to grandmas house actually has many benefits. Currently battery technology is one of the largest area of research by both private and public funding. The government even is working on what they refer to as a modern day manhattan project for battery research.


Tesla is a breath of fresh air. Building from the ground up a car that can compete with the top brands.... And it's electric. I cannot wait to see what they do in the future if this is there starting point.
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      12-12-2012, 03:17 AM   #37
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I'd rather have a BMWi
same here
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      12-12-2012, 05:40 AM   #38
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Definitely would get its super fast. There are no more trips to gas stations. No more oil changes. Next to no maintenance.

As for the naysayers it's a rare day that your going to drive the 200+ miles in a single day. Most places you could go have a charger somewhere nearby and more being added daily. Renting a car for the once a year drive to grandmas house actually has many benefits. Currently battery technology is one of the largest area of research by both private and public funding. The government even is working on what they refer to as a modern day manhattan project for battery research.


Tesla is a breath of fresh air. Building from the ground up a car that can compete with the top brands.... And it's electric. I cannot wait to see what they do in the future if this is there starting point.
What happens if the only car you can rent is electric too? You need to view the success of the Tesla in terms as if BEVs were the prevalent vehicle type. You say charge stations are being added daily, and now that's great except there are not enough charge stations if BEVs were a higher percentage of the vehicle population. It takes too long to add BTUs back into a battery as compared to adding BTUs back into a ICE car's fuel tank; it's just chemistry.

It all comes down to cost of ownership and the benefit ratio. The Tesla S is a great achievement and could function in a lot of owner situations, but the model that provides a comfortable range of over 200 miles on a charge is around $85K. When you can buy a comparable ICE car for $50K, the extra $35K pays for the fuel for almost the vehicle's entire life time.

Almost everyone here poo-poos the Chevy Volt. Most people here laugh that it will never sell in the numbers it is projected to by GM. But as a extended range battery electric car, it's a dammed nice first try and actually fits the targeted owner profile almost perfectly, who are those people that drive about 40 miles a day. In a single car you can drive all or mostly on battery for daily driving duties, and if need be switch over to gas power generation for extended trips. I'd get a Volt way before I'd get a Tesla S if I had to make the decision today and had a commute profile that fit either car's cost-value profile (but I don't).

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 12-12-2012 at 06:07 AM.
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      12-12-2012, 05:42 AM   #39
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What happens if the only car you can rent is electric too?
Tell grandma to drive down to see you in her 1969 Oldsmobile?
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      12-12-2012, 06:09 AM   #40
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Tell grandma to drive down to see you in her 1969 Oldsmobile?
You made my point, thanks.
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      12-12-2012, 07:37 AM   #41
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Who sees a Tesla in their future?

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I'd rather have a BMWi
I'd rather drive a BMW. (Or better, a Porsche!)

Using Tesla's calculator http://www.teslamotors.com/financing and considering my driving habits (multiple vehicles, telecommute) gas would need to rise to over $60/gallon before it made any sense for me, and that's just for the operating costs.

@ $84,900 for the "performance" version -- no, I don't ever see a Tesla in my future.

Honda offers an electric Fit EV lease (only) for $389/month while GM offers the Volt for $329/mo plus $2999 (= $412).

If the cost were maybe half or one-third of that, it might be fun to have an electric Fit as a spare car.
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      12-12-2012, 07:51 AM   #42
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The Tesla S is a great achievement and could function in a lot of owner situations, but the model that provides a comfortable range of over 200 miles on a charge is around $85K. When you can buy a comparable ICE car for $50K, the extra $35K pays for the fuel for almost the vehicle's entire life time.
I'd rather pick up that tab sooner or later, thinking about the environment at the same time.

With the loss of the ability of taxing fuel I wonder where governments will make up for the loss in revenue.

My next car will be a petrol or diesel, the car after that I hope will be electric. Tesla or not, but at least 500 miles autonomy.
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      12-12-2012, 09:36 AM   #43
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Hydrogen gives us the, "drive to the pumps" experience that works so well today.
Hydrogen powered electric vehicles have tremendous potential. Unfortunately, producing it requires as much energy as you get out of it, meaning a huge investment in dedicated alternative energy power plants to produce it. Getting it to the gas stations will require another huge investment in new distribution and delivery infrastructure. And the logistics of storing it in your vehicle, either at near absolute zero in liquid form or under tremendously high pressures in a special tank, don't look too good or safe either right now.
Since our economy is built on the concept of generally doing things as cheaply as possible, this may never happen in our lifetimes. However, if we could pull this off in the next 10 - 20 years I do believe that stopping the shipment of all of our dollars overseas to quench are insatiable oil thirst will solve nearly every single problem our country has!
THINK ABOUT IT!
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      12-12-2012, 11:38 AM   #44
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The trouble with Hydorgen and Batteries is

They both require exotic materials.
The catalyst in a Fuel cell is Platinum or one or a combination of
exotic metals of which there isn't a large supply .
Of course Musk is looking at space mining.
With batteries we have Lithium which is also a somewhat rare material.
So there needs to be breakthroughs in these area's, as in find substitutes that are practical on a large scale .
It would be a nice dream to have personal Energy Independence on a large scale. Solar and Wind at your house and off the grid for the most part .
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