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      12-07-2012, 06:15 PM   #89
MelvinMrBMWBey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I definitely do not work for your dealership, nor in any automotive industry.

The facts boil down to this: You hit something, and dealer is going to deny the claim. I have a feeling another dealer is going to give you the same hassle. Find the number to your insurance claims hotline and get that going. Save yourself further headache. This is what insurance is for.
I think thats what I am trying to say...lol
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      12-07-2012, 06:25 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey View Post
Bvanderbuilt, I am not hiding or attempting to insult you. It sounds like you hit something that's all...I take care of my customers and when they need to hear the truth I just give it, because thats all they really pay me for. The truth.
I must commend you, you're like the guy who is warned three times that he is entering a mine field, but decides to walk through anyway.

Here's your original quote:

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Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey
It sounds like you hit something and your trying to get BMW to cover your car, I see this alot, with certain customers. Its like the guy who gets a free car wash and comes back to complain about his car not being clean enough for free.
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Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey
Looking at the pictures is pointless to me as I am not a mechanic, I would not know what im looking at anyway.


I can tell you with some certainty that while your strategy of telling the "truth" may have endeared you to some of your previous customers; your new foray into insulting BMW customers on the internet is probably not the best idea.

Think of it another way: If I was your customer, and this car was the 75K car you had sold me, and I was negotiating the purchase of a 2013 with you (as I said I am in the middle of trying to order a new 2013), and I came to you and described this situation, would you give me that line about the free car wash and tell me I was a liar? I highly doubt it.

You are a CA in my area, I am scratching my head at your course of action here. A smart man would have attempted to gain a customer.

Last edited by bvanderbilt; 12-07-2012 at 06:32 PM.
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      12-07-2012, 06:27 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
Someone needs to explain how something which caused 1/8" abrasion on the side of the differential was able to deliver enough force to shear to a 10.9 bolt. Even a high school physics student is competent enough to provide proof that is impossible; as others have stated the impact area would be far larger and the differential cover destroyed.
The real cause of the bolt failure can be established by a failure analysis test in a laboratory. I'm sure by now the bolt has been put into the scrap pile by BMW and it is too late. If this happens again to anyone else make sure you get the failed bolt once the repair has been done.

The failure analysis results will provide material strength test as well as what torque value was used on the original assembly. Torque wrenches have been known to be out of calibration by repeated use, the slightest movement of the adjustment barrel will change the torque value drastically.

Bottom Line; should BMW on a failure like this ever deny you warranty ask for the failed part and tell them "Fine let me have the failed parts and I will have them analyzed" If you are right fine, however, if improper workmanship was the reason for this failure I expect you to pay not only for this repair also for the failure analysis" They might change there tune ... Stand your ground fellows don't take everything for granted ...
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      12-07-2012, 06:51 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey View Post
I just know customers, and in my opinion the guy hit something he's fishing for info to use to make his case. Like I said I hope he gets his way, if you cant get a repair covered by BMW warranty its great saves money, the dealer gets paid everybodies happy. To sit around thinking that thier is a conspiracy to deny his claim, cleverly orcas trated by the dealer and the claims department, is absurd. Trust me its not even worth the aggrevation to go to the dealer start a confrontation about your car, which sounds like what happened here.
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Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey View Post
It sounds like your personal feelings about sales people are the reason your choosing to to insult me...lol I did not respond to this to insult the guy. Logical people are able to understand that everything that happens to them is not someone elses fault all the time. BMW are machines and they break like every other machine in the world. Why else would thier be a service department right next the sales department at every auto retailer on the planet? Going though all the aggrevation of trying to "fight it" calling BMW NA calling the BBB is probably not worth it. If he likes the car and see's a value in it just get it fix and move on with life, thats all I am saying. People that work at dealers arent alway "out to get you" they have a job to do the same way you do, and it sounds like the SA was just doing his and it caused the guy to go off the deep end and question the ethics of the dealer he choose to go to.
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Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey View Post
Bvanderbuilt, I am not hiding or attempting to insult you. It sounds like you hit something that's all. I did take the time to google you or send any emails about you or anything of the sort. Based on what you wrote it sounds to me meaning in my opinion that you hit something. Maybe you didnt hit it that day, maybe you did I dont know. People are entitled to thier opinions and my opinion is that it sounds like you hit something. Thats all I have to say about it. Yes I do work at a BMW store you can check out my rating, I am Certified and have a 99% percent customer satisfaction rating at BMW as well as dealerrater.com. I take care of my customers and when they need to hear the truth I just give it, because thats all they really pay me for. The truth. Hope you get it fixed under warranty some how just like I said before.
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Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey View Post
It sounds like you hit something and your trying to get BMW to cover your car, I see this alot, with certain customers. Its like the guy who gets a free car wash and comes back to complain about his car not being clean enough for free. Bimmers are expensive to maintain, If you can get it covered by BMW warranty more power to you.

PS. There is no such thing is a mint car, maybe a mint commic book or a mint trading card, but a car no.
GREAT NEWS!!! An expert has decided to join the forum, we've been waiting for someone on the inside who knows everything about anything...
Nice entrance BTW

p.s. spellchec + grammar cheque our you're frind
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      12-07-2012, 07:21 PM   #93
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That was funny

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Originally Posted by j2m View Post
GREAT NEWS!!! An expert has decided to join the forum, we've been waiting for someone on the inside who knows everything about anything...
Nice entrance BTW

p.s. spellchec + grammar cheque our you're frind
I know I made some errors and didnt spell check, no excuses...lol I can take on the chin and admit my wrong no problem.
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      12-07-2012, 07:29 PM   #94
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I am floored at the attitudes defending BMW in this whole thread! OP, stick to your guns! This is nothing more than BMW NA doing "cost mitigation" on a warranty claim as a cost control measure. The policy is "deny" if you can come up with a scenario where you can shift blame onto the consumer.

I see this as an evolution of the "pad slap" policy (by not replacing the rotor) when doing brake jobs under the monopolistic force-bundled maintenance plan...I'm amazed that the government has not gone after BMW with an anti-trust suit relating to the "no cost" maintenance. The behavior mirrors microsoft bundling in "IE" for free during the browser wars of the 90's...or standard oil's behavior 100 years ago. Either way I digress...BMW is denying the warranty claim because it thinks it can get away with it, and BMW can afford to tarnish its image. OP, as you can see there are plenty of people defending their actions on here so obviously they still have lots of good will with people before this practice goes south on them, and hurts bottom line sales (at which point they'll do a 180). BMW has a hot selling brand and they'll continue to deny warranty claims based on dubious excuses...as the horror stories like the OP's add up & hurt sales, their attitude will shift. What they are doing to the OP (and others in similar situations) is a business decision mired in questionable ethics. Its cheaper to deny & fight then fix...nothing but a loss/gain formula.

BMW in general has gone to the extreme in reducing their back end warranty service costs in the last 4-5 years. I've owned BMW's for years and have noticed the emphasis on cost mitigation in the last 5 years...things that were covered no questions asked in the past now get a "no way, bmw won't pay for that anymore" responses from SA's. I can understand why they do this, they lost their a$$ on the last gen 7 series warranty repairs
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      12-07-2012, 07:50 PM   #95
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All I did was disagree with you and make some grammatical errors without spell checking them. I told you truth, things don't always go your way. If I could help you on the repair I would, but I cant. So the best thing I can do is tell you the truth. Though you may not think that its fair, its the truth. If you want to sell the car get it fixed, inform the customer of the repair and move on with life. Starting up a post in which people are going into how dealers are scam artist and such really just gets you more upset and won't solve the problem. To think that there is no way on earth that you could have hit something just isn't realistic. Is it really worth all the headache just to have a car you want to drive sit? I dont know its your car its my opinion. If the truth isnt what you want to hear what can I do? If BMW sent out the inspector and the inspector says they will not cover it, thats what it is. Calling headquaters is going to give you a headache. Im talking to you from guy to guy man not trying insult you or belittle you or anything of the sort. I dont want to pay $700 for a battery, or $300 for a headlight, or when my check ingine light comes on and I have to kick out $70 bucks even when it warranty but it happens. This is like going to court to fight a parking ticket, because you only there for five minutes. I'll catch you guys later its Friday night.
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      12-07-2012, 09:44 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubu View Post
I am floored at the attitudes defending BMW in this whole thread! OP, stick to your guns!
Why?..You think someone who abuses or road hazzards their car should be afforded the same warranty coverage as those who drive normally?

Again not saying if OP did road hazzard the car or not..but the evidence doesnt seem to be in his favor.

The reason why BMW has gone to extremes to cut warranty service is exactly as you describe..too many claims for services that in many cases should not be covered.
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      12-07-2012, 09:50 PM   #97
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Why?..You think someone who abuses or road hazzards their car should be afforded the same warranty coverage as those who drive normally?

Again not saying if OP did road hazzard the car or not..but the evidence doesnt seem to be in his favor.

The reason why BMW has gone to extremes to cut warranty service is exactly as you describe..too many claims for services that in many cases should not be covered.
What evidence is that? I'm not trying to be offensive or be a smart ass. I'm just curious. Maybe I'm not seeing something you are.
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      12-07-2012, 09:52 PM   #98
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Again not saying if OP did road hazzard the car or not..but the evidence doesnt seem to be in his favor.
Why? The two pictures posted show a tiny scratch on the fuel tank and a 1/4" abrasion to the side of the differential. The pictures were taken with flash to try to capture the detail which was hard -- in person it is even less noticeable. I spoke to several independent shops today; the mechanics I spoke to agreed that BMW's claims were absurd and told me the so-called "damage" cited as cause was completely negligible and obviously normal wear and tear. All started laughing (at the claim the pictured damage would be responsible for a sheared 10.9 diff bolt) when I showed them the pictures. I'm not sure what you see different, but I guarantee you I could find scratches and dings on the underside of your car. Remember there is no exhaust & muffler damage whatsoever and I was told by the dealer that the car was "perfect" "not abused" and "obviously well taken care of" and more to the point the shop foreman told me "that they couldn't figure it out, never seen a broken bolt before, no signs of abuse whatsoever, but a BMW FSE happened to stop by and decided there must have been impact"

The way it looks is: dealership submitted $6K warranty claim; BMW FSE showed up; found some random scratches, and denied warranty coverage. Fair? Hope it doesn't happen to you.

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      12-07-2012, 09:55 PM   #99
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What does the particular BMW dealer have to do with this ? As several people have said, a repair like this has to be approved by BMW NA or they won't pay for it.
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      12-07-2012, 10:08 PM   #100
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What does the particular BMW dealer have to do with this ? As several people have said, a repair like this has to be approved by BMW NA or they won't pay for it.
Dealership represents BMW, I thought? I bought the car there. The dealership should be on my side if it is a BMW NA issue and work for a positive resolution for their customer.

The initial response from the dealer was more the opposite. Along the lines of "oh, yeah, your car, that claim was denied, the bill is $6000, you can come pick up the quote, we don't really have any details, supposedly you hit something, we're not really sure, call your insurance."

So basically dealership says I need to pay $500 deductible + take an at-fault on my driving record + pay more in insurance + lose 10K in equity in the car due to a CarFax record.. I ask to see the supposed evidence of "accident damage" and I am shown normal wear and tear; techs uncomfortably stare at the ground when I ask "how could this small scratch possibly be related to a component nearly a foot away?" and "if I hit something, wouldn't there be a single scratch on the exhaust, which is several inches lower and takes up half the area of the rear end?"
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      12-07-2012, 10:08 PM   #101
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What does the particular BMW dealer have to do with this ? As several people have said, a repair like this has to be approved by BMW NA or they won't pay for it.
On the customers behalf, the dealership did not contest the absurd decision not to cover his repair. Yes, I know they don't have to but that is a pathetic excuse. They are just admitting they don't give a sh** and are just as stupid as the FSE.

I had the same problem as him. My differential bolt broke. This happened as I made a simple right hand turn on my way home from the groceries. My bolt was repaired under warranty and I didn't have to face a $6100 repair bill. Like the OP, my car is stock and I do not abuse my car in any way. My dealership's techs did not see any signs of abuse or even early tire wear. When my bolt broke at 19,000 miles I had 70% tread left.
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      12-07-2012, 10:15 PM   #102
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What's the dealer supposed to do ? If BMW NA denied the claim they could beg them to change their mind but it wouldn't do any good.
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      12-07-2012, 10:15 PM   #103
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bvanderbilt,

Taking no responsibility if you choose to do this, I suggest you get your differential bolt fixed on your dime and take your car home. No claim necessary, the bolt is cheap (http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...18&hg=33&fg=05) (33176760343), and the replacement should not take more than 30 mins. You should be out less than $100 and rid of this headache. Once the differential is fixed in place, get your entire rear end checked by an indy shop.
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      12-07-2012, 10:18 PM   #104
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I am floored at the attitudes defending BMW in this whole thread!
I am actually floored by the extreme polarization. It might as well be the US presidential election . . . :s
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      12-07-2012, 10:18 PM   #105
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hahaha i was thinking the same thing....
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      12-07-2012, 10:21 PM   #106
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What's the dealer supposed to do ? If BMW NA denied the claim they could beg them to change their mind but it wouldn't do any good.
There are numerous cases on the forums of reversed BMW NA decisions.

A good dealer would stand by their customer and at least attempt to assist them with the process if that's what is required. You would think a dealer contacting BMW NA to argue on behalf of a customer would have a lot more weight than the customer on his own.

The dealer profit on the car I was attempting to buy (2013 M3) is likely greater than the quoted repair cost. Independent quotes for the same work were half the dealer quote; though I was told that the quote was "total BS" and that the only thing needed to be done was a new bolt.

Some of you (that think I am lying) seem to not understand that I am attached to the car and have treated it with care; I was looking forward to putting a very nice and desirable M3 on the market before my next ED. I take really good care of my things; this maximizes resale but I am also that type of person. I want to be sure the repair is 100% -- this car is not of much interest to non-enthusiasts; the car needs to be perfect to go to its next enthusiast owner -- there is no way in hell I am going to accept having to sell a car with an accident record on the CarFax (resale -10K) when the cause of that record is 1/4" abrasion on a differential fin. Come on!

There are a lot of things the dealer could do... besides what they have done.

Last edited by bvanderbilt; 12-07-2012 at 10:27 PM.
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      12-07-2012, 10:36 PM   #107
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There are numerous cases on the forums of reversed BMW NA decisions.

A good dealer would stand by their customer and at least attempt to assist them with the process if that's what is required. You would think a dealer contacting BMW NA to argue on behalf of a customer would have a lot more weight than the customer on his own.

The dealer profit on the car I was attempting to buy (2013 M3) is likely greater than the quoted repair cost. Independent quotes for the same work were half the dealer quote; though I was told that the quote was "total BS" and that the only thing needed to be done was a new bolt.

Some of you (that think I am lying) seem to not understand that I am attached to the car and have treated it with care; I was looking forward to putting a very nice and desirable M3 on the market before my next ED. I take really good care of my things; this maximizes resale but I am also that type of person. I want to be sure the repair is 100% -- this car is not of much interest to non-enthusiasts; the car needs to be perfect to go to its next enthusiast owner -- there is no way in hell I am going to accept having to sell a car with an accident record on the CarFax (resale -10K) when the cause of that record is 1/4" abrasion on a differential fin. Come on!

There are a lot of things the dealer could do... besides what they have done.
I don't think there is a lot the dealer can do, nothing really. You're upset because BMW NA denied your claim and I don't blame you but I don't think it's the dealers fault. They want to do the repair.
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      12-07-2012, 11:00 PM   #108
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I don't think there is a lot the dealer can do, nothing really. You're upset because BMW NA denied your claim and I don't blame you but I don't think it's the dealers fault. They want to do the repair.
I don't agree with this for two reasons. First, the dealer will make a lot more off of the OP paying 100% than if BMWNA agreed to warrantee it. If they were covering it, they would not be doing all of that other (likely unnecessary) work.

Also, I personally have had warranty work denied from one dealer, then towed it to another for fully covered work. Similarly, I've seen quite a few others that I personally know with similar experiences. Matter of fact, when asked, I suggested that a friend go to Foreign Motors West instead of Herb Chambers in Boston, where they bought the car. Well, they didn't heed my advice, were denied, and they subsequently towed the car to the other dealership for no questions asked coverage...
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      12-07-2012, 11:10 PM   #109
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What evidence is that? I'm not trying to be offensive or be a smart ass. I'm just curious. Maybe I'm not seeing something you are.
Well the way I see the picture ..the bottom of the diff has taken two direct hits here ..those are not going to be caused by pebbles like the OP claims..

my thoery based on what I see..maybe I am overestimating the severity of the impact but there are impacts directly to diff..so its not out of the universe to suggest road hazard here.

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      12-07-2012, 11:16 PM   #110
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Well the way I see the picture ..the bottom of the diff has taken two direct hits here ..those are not going to be caused by pebbles like the OP claims..

my thoery based on what I see..maybe I am overestimating the severity of the impact but there are impacts directly to diff..so its not out of the universe to suggest road hazard here.

Attachment 793191
exactly the point, part of the heat sink fins appear to be cracked. Even if it's very minute, the whole point of my replies is not to be "pro-dealer" but to say that they have the final word. And there's visible damage here from a picture, so we don't need to go back and forth ad try and prove what damaged what, the point is that there is evidence somehting hit the underside. Hell even if it was a pebble, it's all the Ammo the dealer needs to say, "Sorry, Denied". Deal w/ it. They don't have to prove anything to you; YOU need to prove to them. And in this case, yes it sucks, yes it may not even be related or possible, but you have given them the ammo (any scrapes/bruises on the underside) for denying the repairs.
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