Dealer denies warranty claim for differential bolt failure - $6100 bill

[mhabs]

Probably not the most urgent thing to do at this point, but would also report this to the NHTSA recall website. This was something actually recommended by to me by BMW NA. My understanding is that the number of complaints about a specific issue is a significant factor in the NHTSA coming down on a manufacturer to issue a recall.

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by nbennettksu

if Field Service Eng. has been envolved, youv vin is already flagged. No matter where you take it, as soon as they read your key, you're toast.

FSE is involved means BMW NA already knows. OP is done for.

Dealers get paid by BMW or by the customer, they don't care who pays.

From what I understand, VIN flagging is done in cases of modifications or (maybe?) abuse, both of which the dealer concedes are not the case here. And they are only denying this specific claim; my warranty is intact. Correct me if I'm wrong.. will definitely look into it.

There are numerous stories on here of people having positive resolutions for this issue even after FSE involvement.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

Thanks for the advice. I have lurked here a long time. Your threads are stuff of legend.. especially the ED compilation threads. I read all of them before my last ED. Thanks for all the hard work you put in.

My pleasure ... I like to share good things with others

Hope you resolve your issue ... keep us informed!

PS. In my case a BMW Factory Rep so called Field Engineer looked at my wheel (a young grass hopper I might add, the kind of engineer I would never have hired in my business) he totally ignored the fact that 2 sloppy tire shop fellows used two tire irons to pry the run-flat tire from my Z4. I just gave up and gave my wheel a permanent resting place on my garage wall.

[MelvinMrBMWBey]

It sounds like you hit something and your trying to get BMW to cover your car, I see this alot, with certain customers. Its like the guy who gets a free car wash and comes back to complain about his car not being clean enough for free. Bimmers are expensive to maintain, If you can get it covered by BMW warranty more power to you.

PS. There is no such thing is a mint car, maybe a mint commic book or a mint trading card, but a car no.

[sycd]

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey

It sounds like you hit something and your trying to get BMW to cover your car, I see this alot, with certain customers. Its like the guy who gets a free car wash and comes back to complain about his car not being clean enough for free. Bimmers are expensive to maintain, If you can get it covered by BMW warranty more power to you.

PS. There is no such thing is a mint car, maybe a mint commic book or a mint trading card, but a car no.

Look at the photos, re-read his posts, and then try that again.

#readingcomprehensionfail.

[MelvinMrBMWBey]

I read all the post it sounds like a guy trying to get a repair covered, that hit something, just my opinion. Looking at the pictures is pointless to me as I am not a mechanic, I would not know what im looking at anyway. I just know customers, and in my opinion the guy hit something he's fishing for info to use to make his case. Like I said I hope he gets his way, if you cant get a repair covered by BMW warranty its great saves money, the dealer gets paid everybodies happy. To sit around thinking that thier is a conspiracy to deny his claim, cleverly orcas trated by the dealer and the claims department, is absurd. Trust me its not even worth the aggrevation to go to the dealer start a confrontation about your car, which sounds like what happened here.

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey

... To sit around thinking that thier is a conspiracy to deny his claim, cleverly orcas trated by the dealer and the claims department, is absurd.

I did not claim any killer whales were involved. I am not sure where you got that impression.

Are you representing your employer when you post on this forum during business hours? Facebook says you work at BMW dealership near me.

[Reedomn]

My only question is if the driver did not run over anything?....how did the damage happen??....not fanning the fire just curious?....valet?...someone else drove it?.....prior to purchasing it?....

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by Reedomn

My only question is if the driver did not run over anything?....how did the damage happen??....not fanning the fire just curious?....valet?...someone else drove it?.....prior to purchasing it?....

That minor damage could have happened at any time during driving, especially in NJ where the roads are shit. Again, any impact that would have caused damage to the bolt would have ripped the shit out of the undercarriage.

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by Reedomn

My only question is if the driver did not run over anything?....how did the damage happen??....not fanning the fire just curious?....valet?...someone else drove it?.....prior to purchasing it?....

The point of this thread is that BMW and/or the dealership is categorizing normal wear and tear as damage to deny the warranty claim. There is no damage to the underside of the car consistent with running over something and the damage BMW is claiming could easily have been caused by small rocks kicked up on the highway.

There are no scratches or dings on the entire car or any of the wheels. The 19" wheels have never had a single bend. The entire exhaust system is in like new condition. Besides what looks like some pebble/rock abrasion on the side of the diff and a scratch on the fuel tank, there is nothing to see.

Someone needs to explain how something which caused 1/8" abrasion on the side of the differential was able to deliver enough force to shear to a 10.9 bolt. Even a high school physics student is competent enough to provide proof that is impossible; as others have stated the impact area would be far larger and the differential cover destroyed.

[SD-E93-11]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

I did not claim any killer whales were involved. I am not sure where you got that impression.

Are you representing your employer when you post on this forum during business hours? Facebook says you work at BMW dealership near me.

+1; castrating killer whales is a slippery business. Is their nothing these evil dealers won't stoop to?

[Pontrelli]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

Again, you could do that "damage" with a pebble. I already gave my reason for not wanting to file an insurance claim. No engineer would declare that any sort of impact that caused such minimal damage would be capable of shearing a 10.9 bolt; this would not hold up at trial for five seconds even without compounding the evidence of numerous bolt failures reported by other owners. As someone already stated an impact with the force required to shear a 10.9 bolt would basically destroy the entire differential cover. Do you work for my dealership?

A pebble is not going to stove in a part of the undercarriage like that..and it could have been just enough to get things to have enough play where the bolt sheared off..the rubber the diff bolts are housed in also contibute to the play in movement

Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey

It sounds like you hit something and your trying to get BMW to cover your car, I see this alot, with certain customers. Its like the guy who gets a free car wash and comes back to complain about his car not being clean enough for free. Bimmers are expensive to maintain, If you can get it covered by BMW warranty more power to you.

PS. There is no such thing is a mint car, maybe a mint commic book or a mint trading card, but a car no.

Agree..between those who launch abuse their cars and road hazard their cars..BMW has to sift through the legit and not legit claims..if they cover it for the OP then good for him..it should not just be carte blanche to do anything in this car then expect BMW to "cover" it

[Gfunk720]

Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey

It sounds like you hit something and your trying to get BMW to cover your car, I see this alot, with certain customers. Its like the guy who gets a free car wash and comes back to complain about his car not being clean enough for free. Bimmers are expensive to maintain, If you can get it covered by BMW warranty more power to you.

You obviously did not the read the thread, or are not a very logical or technically minded person. My guess is you likely work for a dealership.

Sucks OP, as there clearly is no substantial damage to the diff. As others have said, a hit hard enough to sheer that bolt would have damaged the diff much more signficantly as well as other things around it.

I'm surprised that the large number of failures related to this part still hasn't changed how BMW deals with these failures. Either way your dealership sounds like a bunch of clowns trying to take advantage of you. $6000 to replace a sheared bolt

[Reedomn]

One man for the job......

Originally Posted by SD-E93-11

+1; castrating killer whales is a slippery business. Is their nothing these evil dealers won't stoop to?

[WillC310]

As someone who's had to fight BMW to honor a warranty repair (and won) after a FSE had come out to "inspect" my old modded E46M3 let let me give you my $0.01.

Going to another dealership is pointless. As pointed out earlier, warranty repairs are paid for by BMW. For high priced repairs BMW will send out a FSE to make sure the dealership isn't trying to rip them off. Regardless of what caused it, the FSE (and therefore BMW NA) has placed the burden of proof on you to prove them wrong. Even if you go to another dealership and find a SA that agrees with your assesement, someone has to foot the bill. I don't think the dealership will step up to bat unless you know the owner and he owes you 6k..

In my situation I had taken the car in a few times before for the problem and they failed to repair the car. I was able to arbitrate through the BBB because BMW NA has an arbitration clause for my state. It looks like they have it for MD also so you may want to investigate it. Note: BMW will have a representative (not the FSE) take the case, and you get a 3rd party to listen to both sides. If I remember correctly, you can choose to meet in person, via phone, or do written statements. It does take time however, and if the decision is found in your favor it's legally binding to BMW. If you loose you case, you can always attempt it again in court.

http://www.auto.bbb.org/auto-line-pa...ate-Level/BMW/


Another option you may want to consider is calling BMW NA Customer relations and bitching - a lot. To be honest though, most likely the CR rep won't assist you since they are just note takers/read off a script and have no authority. If you complain enough though, you might get someone in the NJ office to call you back. They may be willing to work with you and work out a semi-goodwill repair. That's what happened with me, but once I started the arbitration process with the BBB, the BMW NA rep in NJ decided that he didn't want to deal with me.

You could also laywer up, but since this doesn't sound like a typical lemon law case since you didn't take it in before for the problem (or it was not mentioned). It might take a few more calls to get a lawyer to take it but I suppose it's possbile.

Good luck with your situation. It totally blows and I've been in your shoes. If you have any questions about the process I went through, PM me and I can go into more detail.

[MKE_M3]

How much does it cost to repair just the bolt? I would think it would be pretty cheap. Perhaps the OP could negotiate free labor, or some other compromise. Is it a DIY job?

I assume the rest of the estimate was for the other parts that appear damaged. Since the OP doesn't think the other parts have more than normal wear and tear, he should be fine just fixing the bolt.

[MelvinMrBMWBey]

You know I meant to type lol . The typo was funny and I can laugh at my own errors. Im not trying to tell you I dont hope it works out Im just saying the way it sounds to me. Yes I do work near you, and it sounds like maybe you think I have a personal feeling about your car I dont, just my opinion. Looks like you have a 6k bill thats all it happens. Again I hope buy some stroke of luck you can get it fixed under warranty, but the idea of speading the "Evil Scum Bad Guy Dealer" rhetoric is a bit much. You win some you lose some.

[MelvinMrBMWBey]

Originally Posted by Gfunk720

You obviously did not the read the thread, or are not a very logical or technically minded person. My guess is you likely work for a dealership.

Sucks OP, as there clearly is no substantial damage to the diff. As others have said, a hit hard enough to sheer that bolt would have damaged the diff much more signficantly as well as other things around it.

I'm surprised that the large number of failures related to this part still hasn't changed how BMW deals with these failures. Either way your dealership sounds like a bunch of clowns trying to take advantage of you. $6000 to replace a sheared bolt

It sounds like your personal feelings about sales people are the reason your choosing to to insult me...lol I did not respond to this to insult the guy. Logical people are able to understand that everything that happens to them is not someone elses fault all the time. BMW are machines and they break like every other machine in the world. Why else would thier be a service department right next the sales department at every auto retailer on the planet? Going though all the aggrevation of trying to "fight it" calling BMW NA calling the BBB is probably not worth it. If he likes the car and see's a value in it just get it fix and move on with life, thats all I am saying. People that work at dealers arent alway "out to get you" they have a job to do the same way you do, and it sounds like the SA was just doing his and it caused the guy to go off the deep end and question the ethics of the dealer he choose to go to.

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey

You know I meant to type lol . The typo was funny and I can laugh at my own errors. Im not trying to tell you I dont hope it works out Im just saying the way it sounds to me. Yes I do work near you, and it sounds like maybe you think I have a personal feeling about your car I dont, just my opinion. Looks like you have a 6k bill thats all it happens. Again I hope buy some stroke of luck you can get it fixed under warranty, but the idea of speading the "Evil Scum Bad Guy Dealer" rhetoric is a bit much. You win some you lose some.

A quick Google search of your user ID tells everyone your name, job title, and which dealership you work for. You opened this conversation by accusing me of being a liar. To summarize what you said: "I don't know what the pictures mean, therefore I have no basis for the statements I am making, but I think the customer is wrong in general and he is lying" Do you think it's a good idea as a CA to come on the internet while you work and call a BMW customer a liar? You answer that for me.

Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey

Logical people are able to understand that everything that happens to them is not someone elses fault all the time.

Logical people do not accept personal fiscal loss when claims are made against them that do not stand up to cursory scrutiny or basic physics.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

A quick Google search of your user ID tells everyone your name, job title, and which dealership you work for. You opened this conversation by accusing me of being a liar. To summarize what you said: "I don't know what the pictures mean, therefore I have no basis for the statements I am making, but I think the customer is wrong in general and he is lying" Do you think it's a good idea as a CA to come on the internet while you work and call a BMW customer a liar? You answer that for me.

Logical people do not accept personal fiscal loss when claims are made against them that do not stand up to cursory scrutiny or basic physics.

Boom!

[checkmate]

OP-I'm local. PM me which dealer this is. Maybe I can help. (Edit: Having seen previous posts-this seems to be Northwest BMW)

Sorry to hear about your troubles. There seems to a number of E9x M3s that keep have diff bolt issues (at least those that are documented on this forum)