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      12-07-2012, 11:33 AM   #45
MelvinMrBMWBey
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It sounds like you hit something and your trying to get BMW to cover your car, I see this alot, with certain customers. Its like the guy who gets a free car wash and comes back to complain about his car not being clean enough for free. Bimmers are expensive to maintain, If you can get it covered by BMW warranty more power to you.

PS. There is no such thing is a mint car, maybe a mint commic book or a mint trading card, but a car no.
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      12-07-2012, 11:36 AM   #46
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      12-07-2012, 12:00 PM   #47
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I read all the post it sounds like a guy trying to get a repair covered, that hit something, just my opinion. Looking at the pictures is pointless to me as I am not a mechanic, I would not know what im looking at anyway. I just know customers, and in my opinion the guy hit something he's fishing for info to use to make his case. Like I said I hope he gets his way, if you cant get a repair covered by BMW warranty its great saves money, the dealer gets paid everybodies happy. To sit around thinking that thier is a conspiracy to deny his claim, cleverly orcas trated by the dealer and the claims department, is absurd. Trust me its not even worth the aggrevation to go to the dealer start a confrontation about your car, which sounds like what happened here.
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      12-07-2012, 12:08 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey View Post
... To sit around thinking that thier is a conspiracy to deny his claim, cleverly orcas trated by the dealer and the claims department, is absurd.
I did not claim any killer whales were involved. I am not sure where you got that impression.

Are you representing your employer when you post on this forum during business hours? Facebook says you work at BMW dealership near me.

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      12-07-2012, 12:19 PM   #49
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My only question is if the driver did not run over anything?....how did the damage happen??....not fanning the fire just curious?....valet?...someone else drove it?.....prior to purchasing it?....
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      12-07-2012, 12:24 PM   #50
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My only question is if the driver did not run over anything?....how did the damage happen??....not fanning the fire just curious?....valet?...someone else drove it?.....prior to purchasing it?....
The point of this thread is that BMW and/or the dealership is categorizing normal wear and tear as damage to deny the warranty claim. There is no damage to the underside of the car consistent with running over something and the damage BMW is claiming could easily have been caused by small rocks kicked up on the highway.

There are no scratches or dings on the entire car or any of the wheels. The 19" wheels have never had a single bend. The entire exhaust system is in like new condition. Besides what looks like some pebble/rock abrasion on the side of the diff and a scratch on the fuel tank, there is nothing to see.

Someone needs to explain how something which caused 1/8" abrasion on the side of the differential was able to deliver enough force to shear to a 10.9 bolt. Even a high school physics student is competent enough to provide proof that is impossible; as others have stated the impact area would be far larger and the differential cover destroyed.
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      12-07-2012, 12:48 PM   #51
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I did not claim any killer whales were involved. I am not sure where you got that impression.

Are you representing your employer when you post on this forum during business hours? Facebook says you work at BMW dealership near me.
+1; castrating killer whales is a slippery business. Is their nothing these evil dealers won't stoop to?
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      12-07-2012, 12:50 PM   #52
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Again, you could do that "damage" with a pebble. I already gave my reason for not wanting to file an insurance claim. No engineer would declare that any sort of impact that caused such minimal damage would be capable of shearing a 10.9 bolt; this would not hold up at trial for five seconds even without compounding the evidence of numerous bolt failures reported by other owners. As someone already stated an impact with the force required to shear a 10.9 bolt would basically destroy the entire differential cover. Do you work for my dealership?
A pebble is not going to stove in a part of the undercarriage like that..and it could have been just enough to get things to have enough play where the bolt sheared off..the rubber the diff bolts are housed in also contibute to the play in movement

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It sounds like you hit something and your trying to get BMW to cover your car, I see this alot, with certain customers. Its like the guy who gets a free car wash and comes back to complain about his car not being clean enough for free. Bimmers are expensive to maintain, If you can get it covered by BMW warranty more power to you.

PS. There is no such thing is a mint car, maybe a mint commic book or a mint trading card, but a car no.
Agree..between those who launch abuse their cars and road hazard their cars..BMW has to sift through the legit and not legit claims..if they cover it for the OP then good for him..it should not just be carte blanche to do anything in this car then expect BMW to "cover" it
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      12-07-2012, 12:54 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey View Post
It sounds like you hit something and your trying to get BMW to cover your car, I see this alot, with certain customers. Its like the guy who gets a free car wash and comes back to complain about his car not being clean enough for free. Bimmers are expensive to maintain, If you can get it covered by BMW warranty more power to you.
You obviously did not the read the thread, or are not a very logical or technically minded person. My guess is you likely work for a dealership.

Sucks OP, as there clearly is no substantial damage to the diff. As others have said, a hit hard enough to sheer that bolt would have damaged the diff much more signficantly as well as other things around it.

I'm surprised that the large number of failures related to this part still hasn't changed how BMW deals with these failures. Either way your dealership sounds like a bunch of clowns trying to take advantage of you. $6000 to replace a sheared bolt
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      12-07-2012, 12:59 PM   #54
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+1; castrating killer whales is a slippery business. Is their nothing these evil dealers won't stoop to?
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      12-07-2012, 01:50 PM   #55
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As someone who's had to fight BMW to honor a warranty repair (and won) after a FSE had come out to "inspect" my old modded E46M3 let let me give you my $0.01.

Going to another dealership is pointless. As pointed out earlier, warranty repairs are paid for by BMW. For high priced repairs BMW will send out a FSE to make sure the dealership isn't trying to rip them off. Regardless of what caused it, the FSE (and therefore BMW NA) has placed the burden of proof on you to prove them wrong. Even if you go to another dealership and find a SA that agrees with your assesement, someone has to foot the bill. I don't think the dealership will step up to bat unless you know the owner and he owes you 6k..

In my situation I had taken the car in a few times before for the problem and they failed to repair the car. I was able to arbitrate through the BBB because BMW NA has an arbitration clause for my state. It looks like they have it for MD also so you may want to investigate it. Note: BMW will have a representative (not the FSE) take the case, and you get a 3rd party to listen to both sides. If I remember correctly, you can choose to meet in person, via phone, or do written statements. It does take time however, and if the decision is found in your favor it's legally binding to BMW. If you loose you case, you can always attempt it again in court.

http://www.auto.bbb.org/auto-line-pa...ate-Level/BMW/


Another option you may want to consider is calling BMW NA Customer relations and bitching - a lot. To be honest though, most likely the CR rep won't assist you since they are just note takers/read off a script and have no authority. If you complain enough though, you might get someone in the NJ office to call you back. They may be willing to work with you and work out a semi-goodwill repair. That's what happened with me, but once I started the arbitration process with the BBB, the BMW NA rep in NJ decided that he didn't want to deal with me.

You could also laywer up, but since this doesn't sound like a typical lemon law case since you didn't take it in before for the problem (or it was not mentioned). It might take a few more calls to get a lawyer to take it but I suppose it's possbile.

Good luck with your situation. It totally blows and I've been in your shoes. If you have any questions about the process I went through, PM me and I can go into more detail.
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      12-07-2012, 02:01 PM   #56
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How much does it cost to repair just the bolt? I would think it would be pretty cheap. Perhaps the OP could negotiate free labor, or some other compromise. Is it a DIY job?

I assume the rest of the estimate was for the other parts that appear damaged. Since the OP doesn't think the other parts have more than normal wear and tear, he should be fine just fixing the bolt.
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      12-07-2012, 02:07 PM   #57
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You know I meant to type lol . The typo was funny and I can laugh at my own errors. Im not trying to tell you I dont hope it works out Im just saying the way it sounds to me. Yes I do work near you, and it sounds like maybe you think I have a personal feeling about your car I dont, just my opinion. Looks like you have a 6k bill thats all it happens. Again I hope buy some stroke of luck you can get it fixed under warranty, but the idea of speading the "Evil Scum Bad Guy Dealer" rhetoric is a bit much. You win some you lose some.
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      12-07-2012, 02:21 PM   #58
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You obviously did not the read the thread, or are not a very logical or technically minded person. My guess is you likely work for a dealership.

Sucks OP, as there clearly is no substantial damage to the diff. As others have said, a hit hard enough to sheer that bolt would have damaged the diff much more signficantly as well as other things around it.

I'm surprised that the large number of failures related to this part still hasn't changed how BMW deals with these failures. Either way your dealership sounds like a bunch of clowns trying to take advantage of you. $6000 to replace a sheared bolt
It sounds like your personal feelings about sales people are the reason your choosing to to insult me...lol I did not respond to this to insult the guy. Logical people are able to understand that everything that happens to them is not someone elses fault all the time. BMW are machines and they break like every other machine in the world. Why else would thier be a service department right next the sales department at every auto retailer on the planet? Going though all the aggrevation of trying to "fight it" calling BMW NA calling the BBB is probably not worth it. If he likes the car and see's a value in it just get it fix and move on with life, thats all I am saying. People that work at dealers arent alway "out to get you" they have a job to do the same way you do, and it sounds like the SA was just doing his and it caused the guy to go off the deep end and question the ethics of the dealer he choose to go to.
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      12-07-2012, 02:48 PM   #59
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You know I meant to type lol . The typo was funny and I can laugh at my own errors. Im not trying to tell you I dont hope it works out Im just saying the way it sounds to me. Yes I do work near you, and it sounds like maybe you think I have a personal feeling about your car I dont, just my opinion. Looks like you have a 6k bill thats all it happens. Again I hope buy some stroke of luck you can get it fixed under warranty, but the idea of speading the "Evil Scum Bad Guy Dealer" rhetoric is a bit much. You win some you lose some.
A quick Google search of your user ID tells everyone your name, job title, and which dealership you work for. You opened this conversation by accusing me of being a liar. To summarize what you said: "I don't know what the pictures mean, therefore I have no basis for the statements I am making, but I think the customer is wrong in general and he is lying" Do you think it's a good idea as a CA to come on the internet while you work and call a BMW customer a liar? You answer that for me.

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Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey
Logical people are able to understand that everything that happens to them is not someone elses fault all the time.
Logical people do not accept personal fiscal loss when claims are made against them that do not stand up to cursory scrutiny or basic physics.
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      12-07-2012, 02:53 PM   #60
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OP-I'm local. PM me which dealer this is. Maybe I can help. (Edit: Having seen previous posts-this seems to be Northwest BMW)

Sorry to hear about your troubles. There seems to a number of E9x M3s that keep have diff bolt issues (at least those that are documented on this forum)
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      12-07-2012, 02:57 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
A quick Google search of your user ID tells everyone your name, job title, and which dealership you work for. You opened this conversation by accusing me of being a liar. To summarize what you said: "I don't know what the pictures mean, therefore I have no basis for the statements I am making, but I think the customer is wrong in general and he is lying" Do you think it's a good idea as a CA to come on the internet while you work and call a BMW customer a liar? You answer that for me.



Logical people do not accept personal fiscal loss when claims are made against them that do not stand up to cursory scrutiny or basic physics.

saying it doesn't stand up to basic physics is a stretch as there is def noticeable damage (albeit hard to see) to the finned/heat sink on the diff. That being said, yes it's def plausible somehting could've impacted it under the car and other variables may have contributed to the bolt shearing. It may or may not have even happened in that order. The main thing to note is who can prove what happened. At the end of the day, the dealer is a privately owned company under the BMW NA flag, so it's your word against there and many people just suck. If it were me, to keep a customer, they should eat the repairs and push it through warranty or BMW NA. But some people again suck and think that they'll just push you away and not worry about it. But again as the other guy was saying, it's def not a 6k repair, so how much aggravation is your time and money worth?

Solution= move on, find a good indy to fix the car much cheaper and be done w/ it.
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      12-07-2012, 03:10 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
A quick Google search of your user ID tells everyone your name, job title, and which dealership you work for. You opened this conversation by accusing me of being a liar. To summarize what you said: "I don't know what the pictures mean, therefore I have no basis for the statements I am making, but I think the customer is wrong in general and he is lying" Do you think it's a good idea as a CA to come on the internet while you work and call a BMW customer a liar? You answer that for me.

Logical people do not accept personal fiscal loss when claims are made against them that do not stand up to cursory scrutiny or basic physics.
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Boom!
I love how this now turned into a BMW vs Customer thread..the pictures that are posted are spotty at best..BMW has every right to deny claims due to abuse and road hazzard..this saves us ALL money in the long run..If OP is in the right he will be cleared and have his repair covered..end of story
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      12-07-2012, 03:12 PM   #63
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saying it doesn't stand up to basic physics is a stretch as there is def noticeable damage (albeit hard to see) to the finned/heat sink on the diff...Solution= move on...
I respect your viewpoint but I honestly can't fathom how you think this way. The only damage to the differential is in the photograph. So we are talking about a 1/4" area of abrasion.

We know the material (aluminum), a professional engineer would know the exact type, it is then simple to calculate impact velocity to cause that kind of deformation. Because the deformation is so minimal that value is low, associated with a rock or pebble. So that's X.

We know the material of the bolt (high tensile steel), an engineer can calculate exactly the force required to shear that bolt at that thickness (in non-technical terms, A LOT). That's Y.

So we know X < Y. Dealer claim is invalid. For some of you that's not good enough or for some reason you want to speak in relative terms that are not objectively true, which really confuses me, e.g. "there is some damage." Well yes, there are rock chips on the bumper too.

We can then calculate the deformation of the aluminum differential cover when impacted with Y amount of force. As lay people we speculate with some confidence that it would destroy the entire cover. An engineer would be able to tell you exactly how much, that's Z.

So we know that X < Y, this is objective. And we know that to get Y we would have needed to observe Z, but we don't observe Z, we only observe a 1/4" abrasion.

When it is so objectively cut and dry that you're in the right, why would you "move on"?
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      12-07-2012, 03:16 PM   #64
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I respect your viewpoint but I honestly can't fathom how you think this way. The only damage to the differential is in the photograph. So we are talking about a 1/4" area of abrasion.

We know the material (aluminum), a professional engineer would know the exact type, it is then simple to calculate impact velocity to cause that kind of deformation. Because the deformation is so minimal that value is low, associated with a rock or pebble. So that's X.

We know the material of the bolt (high tensile steel), an engineer can calculate exactly the force required to shear that bolt at that thickness (in non-technical terms, A LOT). That's Y.

So we know X < Y. Dealer claim is invalid. For some of you that's not good enough or for some reason you want to speak in relative terms that are not objectively true, which really confuses me, e.g. "there is some damage." Well yes, there are rock chips on the bumper too.

We can then calculate the deformation of the aluminum differential cover when impacted with Y amount of force. As lay people we speculate with some confidence that it would destroy the entire cover. An engineer would be able to tell you exactly how much, that's Z.

So we know that X < Y, this is objective. And we know that to get Y we would have needed to observe Z, but we don't observe Z, we only observe a 1/4" abrasion.

When it is so objectively cut and dry that you're in the right, why would you "move on"?


you are driving a car on public roads w/ many variables that unfortunately a simple (or drawn out as above) equation won't really hold any water. Again, you as the owner need to prove what happened to the dealer. The burden of proof always lied w/ you. You keep saying you're right, but who can prove what happened? It's already been discussed these diff bolts are def weak, but you're so admant that you're right, yet you're still on this forum proving you case to a bunch of strangers. Go tell the dealer; b/c if you're so confident in your case they would've fixed the car already. Good luck
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      12-07-2012, 03:20 PM   #65
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you are driving a car on public roads w/ many variables that unfortunately a simple (or drawn out as above) equation won't really hold any water. Again, you as the owner need to prove what happened to the dealer. The burden of proof always lied w/ you. You keep saying you're right, but who can prove what happened? It's already been discussed these diff bolts are def weak, but you're so admant that you're right, yet you're still on this forum proving you case to a bunch of strangers. Go tell the dealer; b/c if you're so confident in your case they would've fixed the car already. Good luck
I posted to get advice.

I'm collecting contrary viewpoints. Useful exercise. These threads always bring out people who just want to argue with you because they enjoy being contrary.

I have a very good relationship (at least with sales) with the dealership. I buy a new BMW from them every two years. My goal is to be as knowledgeable and prepared as possible for the process to resolution before I begin the process, and my goal is to hopefully preserve that relationship. There's nothing wrong with knowing you are in the right and knowing your options. I come from a family of litigators; there are three attorneys in my immediate family. I simply don't accept (and see no reason to) personal loss unless I am in the wrong.

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      12-07-2012, 03:22 PM   #66
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I posted to get advice.

I'm collecting contrary viewpoints to further bolster my case.

These threads always bring out people who just want to argue with you because they can. Beauty of the internet.

well then, good luck
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