Dealer denies warranty claim for differential bolt failure - $6100 bill

[biggynuts01]

why isn't there a recall for his stupid bolt?

[bvanderbilt]

Thanks for the replies.

Originally Posted by roastbeef

the aluminum fins on the differential cooler would be obliterated if they took a blow hard enough to shear a steel bolt.

nobody can argue with that.

Exactly what I was thinking. It was hard not to laugh when they showed me the "damage".

Originally Posted by jjw2331

I am curious as to why the rear axle carrier, differential and fuel tank need to be replaced... is there damage to the subframe (rear axle carrier)? Is there a puncture in the fuel tank? The differential looks to be hanging but is it destroyed? Was it dragged on the road? From the pictures, you have a broken diff bolt - a common problem with 6mt e9x m3s.

As far as I know, the differential is fine and there is no damage that I know of beside the bolt. Once I saw the differential angle I immediately called roadside assistance even though the car was actually driveable. I think they are grasping at straws -- "oh we deny the claim based on that scratch on the fuel tank, well, we better put in that the entire fuel tank has to be replaced then." Does anyone know how thick the plastic of the fuel tank is? The scratch is probably less than 1/16" deep.

Originally Posted by kaiv

Your other option -if your time is precious and you don't want to fight- is to just bring your car to the nearest reputable independent BMW repair shop and have them extract the broken bolt and install a new one. That shouldn't be more than ~a couple hours of labor.

Two reasons I am preparing to stand and fight with the dealer: 1) I was actually preparing to sell the car before this happened. I think this car is special and mine is a particularly mint example. I want to make sure the repair is conducted 100% properly so there are no issues for the next owner. 2) I feel wronged by the dealer (of which I was a loyal customer) in this case; so it's become a bit of a personal mission for me at this point.

Originally Posted by Transfer

Anyone (you, tire shop, thieves?) jack up your rear end using the diff? Weird problem they found. I hope it works out in your favor.

As far as I know the car has never been on a jack except at this particular dealer and is always parked in a secure garage.

[jjw2331]

hey bvanderbilt,

Like others have mentioned, I think you are being played by your dealership. The diff bolt can be fixed in less than an hour if your dealership has one available. I had mine covered under warranty. However, from the impression I get from your dealership, they probably won't cover that. Honestly, I would get your car out of there.

I wish you the best.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Ask for someone from BMW USA to come and inspect the damage with you there.
Its BMW that stands to foot the bill not the dealer who gets paid either way.

[MKE_M3]

Had something similar happen to me (not a warranty claim) and my insurance *maybe* went up like $10 a month. Definitely not the end of the world if it was, indeed, a road hazard incident. Much better than paying $6k out of pocket.

At first I didn't remember "hitting" anything, and was pissed when the mechanic didn't take blame for what I thought was their error. Then I remember scraping backing out of my driveway a little too straight (steep curb) and it turned out to do about $2k worth of damage to my car, messing up some stuff in the front end and knocking my intercooler loose. This was in my 335i.

Also, Op, if you hit something odd shaped, even like a tire skin from a semi, it could do some strange damage.

Finally, if it's just a differential bold, that doesn't sound like something that would be that big of a deal to fix. If they provided a $6100 bill, perhaps they feel the other "damage" is worth/necessary fixing.

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by MKE_M3

At first I didn't remember "hitting" anything, and was pissed when the mechanic didn't take blame for what I thought was their error. Then I remember scraping backing out of my driveway a little too straight (steep curb) and it turned out to do about $2k worth of damage to my car, messing up some stuff in the front end and knocking my intercooler loose. This was in my 335i.

The differential bolt failure is a known issue on the E9X M3. Very different situation.

There is no damage to the underside of the car besides what is pictured. During any other inspection it wouldn't even register as normal wear and tear. Car is super clean. Exhaust is lower; looks new, if I scraped or hit something, exhaust would be damaged.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

The differential bolt failure is a known issue on the E9X M3. Very different situation.

There is no damage to the underside of the car besides what is pictured. During any other inspection it wouldn't even register as normal wear and tear. Car is super clean. Exhaust is lower; looks new, if I scraped or hit something, exhaust would be damaged.

That broken fin on your diff is cause enough for alarm right there. Those things just don't break off. Something impacted the underside of the car, and the proximity to the failed part would leave any ration person with suspect.

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by SamS

That broken fin on your diff is cause enough for alarm right there. Those things just don't break off. Something impacted the underside of the car, and the proximity to the failed part would leave any ration person with suspect.

Sorry, what are you talking about? Did you look at the pictures? There's no broken fin . There is slight abrasion maybe 1/8" of an inch in area to the aluminum that resembles pitting from small rocks, e.g. normal wear and tear. All the fins are intact, but you can't see them, the picture is from the side.

The diff cover is made out of soft aluminum. No rational person would conclude some abrasion to soft aluminum would be responsible for the break of a steel high-tensile strength 10.9 bolt.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

Sorry, what are you talking about? Did you look at the pictures? There's no broken fin . There is slight abrasion maybe 1/8" of an inch in area to the aluminum that resembles pitting from small rocks, e.g. normal wear and tear. All the fins are intact, but you can't see them, the picture is from the side.

The diff cover is made out of soft aluminum. No rational person would conclude some abrasion to soft aluminum would be responsible for the break of a steel high-tensile strength 10.9 bolt.

Yeah I saw it. The circled part looks like a chunk came out. Maybe it is the angle or the flash? I don't recall my diff ever having that kind of visible damage. I know it hangs awful low, but you hit something alright.

I may have missed this... why not try an insurance claim via some road hazard situation?

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by SamS

Yeah I saw it. The circled part looks like a chunk came out. Maybe it is the angle or the flash? I don't recall my diff ever having that kind of visible damage. I know it hangs awful low, but you hit something alright.

I may have missed this... why not try an insurance claim via some road hazard situation?

Again, you could do that "damage" with a pebble. I already gave my reason for not wanting to file an insurance claim. No engineer would declare that any sort of impact that caused such minimal damage would be capable of shearing a 10.9 bolt; this would not hold up at trial for five seconds even without compounding the evidence of numerous bolt failures reported by other owners. As someone already stated an impact with the force required to shear a 10.9 bolt would basically destroy the entire differential cover. Do you work for my dealership?

[SamS]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

Again, you could do that "damage" with a pebble. I already gave my reason for not wanting to file an insurance claim. No engineer would declare that any sort of impact that caused such minimal damage would be capable of shearing a 10.9 bolt; this would not hold up at trial for five seconds even without compounding the evidence of numerous bolt failures reported by other owners. As someone already stated an impact with the force required to shear a 10.9 bolt would basically destroy the entire differential cover. Do you work for my dealership?

I definitely do not work for your dealership, nor in any automotive industry.

The facts boil down to this: You hit something, and dealer is going to deny the claim. I have a feeling another dealer is going to give you the same hassle. Find the number to your insurance claims hotline and get that going. Save yourself further headache. This is what insurance is for.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by SamS

I definitely do not work for your dealership, nor in any automotive industry.

The facts boil down to this: You hit something, and dealer is going to deny the claim. I have a feeling another dealer is going to give you the same hassle. Find the number to your insurance claims hotline and get that going. Save yourself further headache. This is what insurance is for.

There is simply no way that anybody can claim that a minor impact like this could have resulted in the diff mount failure - a 10.9 bolt. That's is just laughable. OP needs to get a regional BMW NA supervisor involved.

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by SamS

The facts boil down to this: You hit something, and dealer is going to deny the claim. I have a feeling another dealer is going to give you the same hassle. Find the number to your insurance claims hotline and get that going. Save yourself further headache. This is what insurance is for.

There are several hundred pages of posts on these forums about differential bolt failures. You claim I hit "something". OK, you can only prove through impact analysis when considering the material type that I hit a pebble at highway speed. Would you support the dealer denying a warranty claim on the engine for rock chips on the hood? After all, the hood hit "something."

I do suspect you work for my dealer. Considerable personal expense (insurance deductible + at fault accident on record + insurance rate increase + potential CarFax entries = significantly reduced resale) is not the first recourse of an educated consumer especially when an engineer under oath would laugh at the premise presented by the dealer. It is as easy to call my lawyer as it is to call my insurance, why would you call insurance first? I guess some people just drop their pants and say BOHICA rather than argue.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

There is simply no way that anybody can claim that a minor impact like this could have resulted in the diff mount failure - a 10.9 bolt. That's is just laughable. OP needs to get a regional BMW NA supervisor involved.

Well obviously more than one sane person at an authorized BMW service center came this conclusion.

People get put on death row for less circumstantial evidence.

There's an easy/cheap way for this to get resolved (insurance claim). Or there is headache, frustration, wasting a lot of time, for a <10% probability of reversal by BMW.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

There are several hundred pages of posts on these forums about differential bolt failures. You claim I hit "something". OK, you can only prove through impact analysis when considering the material type that I hit a pebble at highway speed. Would you support the dealer denying a warranty claim on the engine for rock chips on the hood? After all, the hood hit "something."

I do suspect you work for my dealer. Considerable personal expense (insurance deductible + at fault accident on record + insurance rate increase + potential CarFax entries = significantly reduced resale) is not the first recourse of an educated consumer especially when an engineer under oath would laugh at the premise presented by the dealer.

No he doesn't... don't go off on some wild conspiracy theories. I agree with you, but just because someone else doesn't, doesn't mean they work for that dealership.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by SamS

Well obviously more than one sane person at an authorized BMW service center came this conclusion.

People get put on death row for less circumstantial evidence.

There's an easy/cheap way for this to get resolved (insurance claim). Or there is headache, frustration, wasting a lot of time, for a <10% probability of reversal by BMW.

Tech are often wrong... I see this ALL the time. In this case I think the OP needs to involve somebody "higher" up.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

There are several hundred pages of posts on these forums about differential bolt failures.

Yep, I'm aware of them.

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

You claim I hit "something". OK, you can only prove through impact analysis when considering the material type that I hit a pebble at highway speed.

A pebble, or road hump?

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

Would you support the dealer denying a warranty claim on the engine for rock chips on the hood? After all, the hood hit "something."

If I was trying to claim "paint failure" (don't laugh, people do this), probably.

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

I do suspect you work for my dealer.

You got me. I actually sent an email to my boss Ludwig Willisch right after I saw your thread last night, to make sure he knows to deny any escalation for this situation that makes it up to his office.

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

Considerable personal expense (insurance deductible + at fault accident on record + insurance rate increase + potential CarFax entries = significantly reduced resale) is not the first recourse of an educated consumer especially when an engineer under oath would laugh at the premise presented by the dealer. It is as easy to call a lawyer as it is to call my insurance, why would you call insurance first? Makes no sense.

Now we're getting litigation going? Best of luck to you sir.

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

No he doesn't... don't go off on some wild conspiracy theories. I agree with you, but just because someone else doesn't, doesn't mean they work for that dealership.

You're right, he probably doesn't, largely irrelevant in any case. But his attitude bears an uncanny resemblance to that of the SA. He acted surprised I even wanted to be shown the "damage." His whole attitude was like "yeah, you know that car you had towed in? oh yeah, here's a $6000 quote, call your insurance, totally normal, it's cool bro, wait, is that a problem? You mean you actually want to see your car? I mean.. I don't know.. no one has ever asked to do that before.. Why?"

Originally Posted by SamS

A pebble, or road hump?

A road hump would have impacted the underside of the differential cover, not a 1/8" area only on one side. Notice the top of the abrasion is 1/4" above the bottom of the cover, something solid underneath the car could not have impacted that area without doing lower damage. And again, no exhaust damage whatsoever.

I need to stop arguing on the internet and go be productive now

[roastbeef]

Sams, the aluminum differential fins would be pealed off the pumpkin if he hit something hard enough to shear that steel bolt.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

Thanks for reading!

You should do the following ...

A) Contact BMW NA ... unless you have already done so.

B) As others pointed out seek the opinion of another dealership (not all dealerships are what they are pretending to be ... I speak from personal experience find my post when I drove my Z4 how BMW screwed me over)

C) Copy and past your entire post to this thread (see link below)

This link is Dealership Feedback ... For my posts go to Post 26 and 45 in the link below.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560411

Good Luck keep us informed

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by M3RD

You should do the following ...

Thanks for the advice. I have lurked here a long time. Your threads are stuff of legend.. especially the ED compilation threads. I read all of them before my last ED. Thanks for all the hard work you put in.

[nbennettksu]

Originally Posted by chmura

The last time I was under my M which was last week I noticed the bottom of the fuel tank was plastic!

If you ran over something, you would of ruptured the fuel tank first not just scratch it!

I say take to another dealership.

Originally Posted by passing

go to another dealer.

if Field Service Eng. has been envolved, youv vin is already flagged. No matter where you take it, as soon as they read your key, you're toast.

Originally Posted by Pontrelli

They can deny for road hazard..you will have to escalate this to BMW N/A

FSE is involved means BMW NA already knows. OP is done for.

Dealers get paid by BMW or by the customer, they don't care who pays.