BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
GTB Performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-06-2012, 11:17 PM   #23
Wendall
***Major MammelToe
Wendall's Avatar
United_States
37
Rep
1,146
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 SG coupe
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (3)

why isn't there a recall for his stupid bolt?
__________________
E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.

Appreciate 0
      12-06-2012, 11:35 PM   #24
bvanderbilt
Private First Class
2
Rep
123
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
the aluminum fins on the differential cooler would be obliterated if they took a blow hard enough to shear a steel bolt.

nobody can argue with that.
Exactly what I was thinking. It was hard not to laugh when they showed me the "damage".

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjw2331 View Post
I am curious as to why the rear axle carrier, differential and fuel tank need to be replaced... is there damage to the subframe (rear axle carrier)? Is there a puncture in the fuel tank? The differential looks to be hanging but is it destroyed? Was it dragged on the road? From the pictures, you have a broken diff bolt - a common problem with 6mt e9x m3s.
As far as I know, the differential is fine and there is no damage that I know of beside the bolt. Once I saw the differential angle I immediately called roadside assistance even though the car was actually driveable. I think they are grasping at straws -- "oh we deny the claim based on that scratch on the fuel tank, well, we better put in that the entire fuel tank has to be replaced then." Does anyone know how thick the plastic of the fuel tank is? The scratch is probably less than 1/16" deep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiv View Post
Your other option -if your time is precious and you don't want to fight- is to just bring your car to the nearest reputable independent BMW repair shop and have them extract the broken bolt and install a new one. That shouldn't be more than ~a couple hours of labor.
Two reasons I am preparing to stand and fight with the dealer: 1) I was actually preparing to sell the car before this happened. I think this car is special and mine is a particularly mint example. I want to make sure the repair is conducted 100% properly so there are no issues for the next owner. 2) I feel wronged by the dealer (of which I was a loyal customer) in this case; so it's become a bit of a personal mission for me at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Anyone (you, tire shop, thieves?) jack up your rear end using the diff? Weird problem they found. I hope it works out in your favor.
As far as I know the car has never been on a jack except at this particular dealer and is always parked in a secure garage.

Last edited by bvanderbilt; 12-06-2012 at 11:40 PM.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 12:19 AM   #25
jjw2331
First Lieutenant
jjw2331's Avatar
9
Rep
322
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 JtBlk e92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (5)

hey bvanderbilt,

Like others have mentioned, I think you are being played by your dealership. The diff bolt can be fixed in less than an hour if your dealership has one available. I had mine covered under warranty. However, from the impression I get from your dealership, they probably won't cover that. Honestly, I would get your car out of there.

I wish you the best.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 03:18 AM   #26
SenorFunkyPants
Colonel
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
United Kingdom
38
Rep
2,622
Posts

 
Drives: E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Ask for someone from BMW USA to come and inspect the damage with you there.
Its BMW that stands to foot the bill not the dealer who gets paid either way.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 08:27 AM   #27
MKE_M3
Lieutenant Colonel
MKE_M3's Avatar
United_States
23
Rep
1,687
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 e90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI

iTrader: (0)

Had something similar happen to me (not a warranty claim) and my insurance *maybe* went up like $10 a month. Definitely not the end of the world if it was, indeed, a road hazard incident. Much better than paying $6k out of pocket.

At first I didn't remember "hitting" anything, and was pissed when the mechanic didn't take blame for what I thought was their error. Then I remember scraping backing out of my driveway a little too straight (steep curb) and it turned out to do about $2k worth of damage to my car, messing up some stuff in the front end and knocking my intercooler loose. This was in my 335i.

Also, Op, if you hit something odd shaped, even like a tire skin from a semi, it could do some strange damage.

Finally, if it's just a differential bold, that doesn't sound like something that would be that big of a deal to fix. If they provided a $6100 bill, perhaps they feel the other "damage" is worth/necessary fixing.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 08:47 AM   #28
bvanderbilt
Private First Class
2
Rep
123
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKE_M3 View Post
At first I didn't remember "hitting" anything, and was pissed when the mechanic didn't take blame for what I thought was their error. Then I remember scraping backing out of my driveway a little too straight (steep curb) and it turned out to do about $2k worth of damage to my car, messing up some stuff in the front end and knocking my intercooler loose. This was in my 335i.
The differential bolt failure is a known issue on the E9X M3. Very different situation.

There is no damage to the underside of the car besides what is pictured. During any other inspection it wouldn't even register as normal wear and tear. Car is super clean. Exhaust is lower; looks new, if I scraped or hit something, exhaust would be damaged.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 08:53 AM   #29
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
The differential bolt failure is a known issue on the E9X M3. Very different situation.

There is no damage to the underside of the car besides what is pictured. During any other inspection it wouldn't even register as normal wear and tear. Car is super clean. Exhaust is lower; looks new, if I scraped or hit something, exhaust would be damaged.
That broken fin on your diff is cause enough for alarm right there. Those things just don't break off. Something impacted the underside of the car, and the proximity to the failed part would leave any ration person with suspect.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 09:05 AM   #30
bvanderbilt
Private First Class
2
Rep
123
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
That broken fin on your diff is cause enough for alarm right there. Those things just don't break off. Something impacted the underside of the car, and the proximity to the failed part would leave any ration person with suspect.
Sorry, what are you talking about? Did you look at the pictures? There's no broken fin . There is slight abrasion maybe 1/8" of an inch in area to the aluminum that resembles pitting from small rocks, e.g. normal wear and tear. All the fins are intact, but you can't see them, the picture is from the side.

The diff cover is made out of soft aluminum. No rational person would conclude some abrasion to soft aluminum would be responsible for the break of a steel high-tensile strength 10.9 bolt.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 09:11 AM   #31
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
Sorry, what are you talking about? Did you look at the pictures? There's no broken fin . There is slight abrasion maybe 1/8" of an inch in area to the aluminum that resembles pitting from small rocks, e.g. normal wear and tear. All the fins are intact, but you can't see them, the picture is from the side.

The diff cover is made out of soft aluminum. No rational person would conclude some abrasion to soft aluminum would be responsible for the break of a steel high-tensile strength 10.9 bolt.
Yeah I saw it. The circled part looks like a chunk came out. Maybe it is the angle or the flash? I don't recall my diff ever having that kind of visible damage. I know it hangs awful low, but you hit something alright.

I may have missed this... why not try an insurance claim via some road hazard situation?
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 09:13 AM   #32
bvanderbilt
Private First Class
2
Rep
123
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Yeah I saw it. The circled part looks like a chunk came out. Maybe it is the angle or the flash? I don't recall my diff ever having that kind of visible damage. I know it hangs awful low, but you hit something alright.

I may have missed this... why not try an insurance claim via some road hazard situation?
Again, you could do that "damage" with a pebble. I already gave my reason for not wanting to file an insurance claim. No engineer would declare that any sort of impact that caused such minimal damage would be capable of shearing a 10.9 bolt; this would not hold up at trial for five seconds even without compounding the evidence of numerous bolt failures reported by other owners. As someone already stated an impact with the force required to shear a 10.9 bolt would basically destroy the entire differential cover. Do you work for my dealership?
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 09:20 AM   #33
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
Again, you could do that "damage" with a pebble. I already gave my reason for not wanting to file an insurance claim. No engineer would declare that any sort of impact that caused such minimal damage would be capable of shearing a 10.9 bolt; this would not hold up at trial for five seconds even without compounding the evidence of numerous bolt failures reported by other owners. As someone already stated an impact with the force required to shear a 10.9 bolt would basically destroy the entire differential cover. Do you work for my dealership?
I definitely do not work for your dealership, nor in any automotive industry.

The facts boil down to this: You hit something, and dealer is going to deny the claim. I have a feeling another dealer is going to give you the same hassle. Find the number to your insurance claims hotline and get that going. Save yourself further headache. This is what insurance is for.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 09:28 AM   #34
bvanderbilt
Private First Class
2
Rep
123
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
The facts boil down to this: You hit something, and dealer is going to deny the claim. I have a feeling another dealer is going to give you the same hassle. Find the number to your insurance claims hotline and get that going. Save yourself further headache. This is what insurance is for.
There are several hundred pages of posts on these forums about differential bolt failures. You claim I hit "something". OK, you can only prove through impact analysis when considering the material type that I hit a pebble at highway speed. Would you support the dealer denying a warranty claim on the engine for rock chips on the hood? After all, the hood hit "something."

I do suspect you work for my dealer. Considerable personal expense (insurance deductible + at fault accident on record + insurance rate increase + potential CarFax entries = significantly reduced resale) is not the first recourse of an educated consumer especially when an engineer under oath would laugh at the premise presented by the dealer. It is as easy to call my lawyer as it is to call my insurance, why would you call insurance first? I guess some people just drop their pants and say BOHICA rather than argue.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 09:31 AM   #35
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
There is simply no way that anybody can claim that a minor impact like this could have resulted in the diff mount failure - a 10.9 bolt. That's is just laughable. OP needs to get a regional BMW NA supervisor involved.
Well obviously more than one sane person at an authorized BMW service center came this conclusion.

People get put on death row for less circumstantial evidence.

There's an easy/cheap way for this to get resolved (insurance claim). Or there is headache, frustration, wasting a lot of time, for a <10% probability of reversal by BMW.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 09:38 AM   #36
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
There are several hundred pages of posts on these forums about differential bolt failures.
Yep, I'm aware of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
You claim I hit "something". OK, you can only prove through impact analysis when considering the material type that I hit a pebble at highway speed.
A pebble, or road hump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
Would you support the dealer denying a warranty claim on the engine for rock chips on the hood? After all, the hood hit "something."
If I was trying to claim "paint failure" (don't laugh, people do this), probably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
I do suspect you work for my dealer.
You got me. I actually sent an email to my boss Ludwig Willisch right after I saw your thread last night, to make sure he knows to deny any escalation for this situation that makes it up to his office.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
Considerable personal expense (insurance deductible + at fault accident on record + insurance rate increase + potential CarFax entries = significantly reduced resale) is not the first recourse of an educated consumer especially when an engineer under oath would laugh at the premise presented by the dealer. It is as easy to call a lawyer as it is to call my insurance, why would you call insurance first? Makes no sense.
Now we're getting litigation going? Best of luck to you sir.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 09:38 AM   #37
bvanderbilt
Private First Class
2
Rep
123
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
No he doesn't... don't go off on some wild conspiracy theories. I agree with you, but just because someone else doesn't, doesn't mean they work for that dealership.
You're right, he probably doesn't, largely irrelevant in any case. But his attitude bears an uncanny resemblance to that of the SA. He acted surprised I even wanted to be shown the "damage." His whole attitude was like "yeah, you know that car you had towed in? oh yeah, here's a $6000 quote, call your insurance, totally normal, it's cool bro, wait, is that a problem? You mean you actually want to see your car? I mean.. I don't know.. no one has ever asked to do that before.. Why?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS
A pebble, or road hump?
A road hump would have impacted the underside of the differential cover, not a 1/8" area only on one side. Notice the top of the abrasion is 1/4" above the bottom of the cover, something solid underneath the car could not have impacted that area without doing lower damage. And again, no exhaust damage whatsoever.

I need to stop arguing on the internet and go be productive now

Last edited by bvanderbilt; 12-07-2012 at 09:49 AM.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 10:27 AM   #38
roastbeef
Captain
roastbeef's Avatar
United_States
13
Rep
880
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Sams, the aluminum differential fins would be pealed off the pumpkin if he hit something hard enough to shear that steel bolt.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 10:30 AM   #39
Mr. ///M3 RD
Major General
Mr. ///M3 RD's Avatar
Canada
148
Rep
7,863
Posts

 
Drives: E350 & 280 SL on Weekends :)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: GTA, Ontario - Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post

Thanks for reading!
You should do the following ...

A) Contact BMW NA ... unless you have already done so.

B) As others pointed out seek the opinion of another dealership (not all dealerships are what they are pretending to be ... I speak from personal experience find my post when I drove my Z4 how BMW screwed me over)

C) Copy and past your entire post to this thread (see link below)

This link is Dealership Feedback ... For my posts go to Post 26 and 45 in the link below.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560411

Good Luck keep us informed
__________________
Cheers, Rolf-Dieter

Life will take us to some interesting places, fortunately The ///M3 will too with a many of us know this very well
---> Click here for some good stuff I found

Last edited by Mr. ///M3 RD; 12-07-2012 at 10:52 AM.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 10:43 AM   #40
bvanderbilt
Private First Class
2
Rep
123
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3RD View Post
You should do the following ...
Thanks for the advice. I have lurked here a long time. Your threads are stuff of legend.. especially the ED compilation threads. I read all of them before my last ED. Thanks for all the hard work you put in.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 11:00 AM   #41
nbennettksu
Major
32
Rep
1,234
Posts

 
Drives: AYF80/PYE46
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chmura View Post
The last time I was under my M which was last week I noticed the bottom of the fuel tank was plastic!

If you ran over something, you would of ruptured the fuel tank first not just scratch it!

I say take to another dealership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by passing View Post
go to another dealer.
if Field Service Eng. has been envolved, youv vin is already flagged. No matter where you take it, as soon as they read your key, you're toast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontrelli View Post
They can deny for road hazard..you will have to escalate this to BMW N/A
FSE is involved means BMW NA already knows. OP is done for.

Dealers get paid by BMW or by the customer, they don't care who pays.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBasham View Post
Caddy ATS . . . finally, a decent rental car option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kchu221 View Post
the wheels make me mad...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhabs View Post
It's one thing for some buffoon to put an M badge on something that doesn't deserve it...it's another for a multi-billion dollar corporation to do the exact same thing and keep a straight face.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 11:01 AM   #42
FogCityM3
Lieutenant Colonel
FogCityM3's Avatar
36
Rep
1,744
Posts

 
Drives: M3 (E90)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Probably not the most urgent thing to do at this point, but would also report this to the NHTSA recall website. This was something actually recommended by to me by BMW NA. My understanding is that the number of complaints about a specific issue is a significant factor in the NHTSA coming down on a manufacturer to issue a recall.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 11:14 AM   #43
bvanderbilt
Private First Class
2
Rep
123
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbennettksu View Post
if Field Service Eng. has been envolved, youv vin is already flagged. No matter where you take it, as soon as they read your key, you're toast.

FSE is involved means BMW NA already knows. OP is done for.

Dealers get paid by BMW or by the customer, they don't care who pays.
From what I understand, VIN flagging is done in cases of modifications or (maybe?) abuse, both of which the dealer concedes are not the case here. And they are only denying this specific claim; my warranty is intact. Correct me if I'm wrong.. will definitely look into it.

There are numerous stories on here of people having positive resolutions for this issue even after FSE involvement.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2012, 11:16 AM   #44
Mr. ///M3 RD
Major General
Mr. ///M3 RD's Avatar
Canada
148
Rep
7,863
Posts

 
Drives: E350 & 280 SL on Weekends :)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: GTA, Ontario - Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by bvanderbilt View Post
Thanks for the advice. I have lurked here a long time. Your threads are stuff of legend.. especially the ED compilation threads. I read all of them before my last ED. Thanks for all the hard work you put in.
My pleasure ... I like to share good things with others

Hope you resolve your issue ... keep us informed!

PS. In my case a BMW Factory Rep so called Field Engineer looked at my wheel (a young grass hopper I might add, the kind of engineer I would never have hired in my business) he totally ignored the fact that 2 sloppy tire shop fellows used two tire irons to pry the run-flat tire from my Z4. I just gave up and gave my wheel a permanent resting place on my garage wall.
__________________
Cheers, Rolf-Dieter

Life will take us to some interesting places, fortunately The ///M3 will too with a many of us know this very well
---> Click here for some good stuff I found
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST