Has Audi overtaken BMW with performance cars?

[UCBPhD]

Originally Posted by gblansten

If my M3 were totaled right now I would get an Audi RS5.

How??? One of my biggest problems with the Audi RS cars is their weird import practices . . . How can someone even get one fixed (parts, technical experience) when there are so few of them around?

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by UCBPhD

How??? One of my biggest problems with the Audi RS cars is their weird import practices . . . How can someone even get one fixed (parts, technical experience) when there are so few of them around?

I would only have one under warranty so the dealer would have to resolve any issues. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

[disruptv]

bmw needs to address the ever increasing weight of their cars and the exorbitant prices they charge for their cars..

ie in the latest R&T comparo, the 650xi gran coupe was $30 Thousan thats right $30K more than the S7 and cls550!!!! :O YIKES!!!! It was also midpack in performance if not towards the end and weighed anywhere from 300 to 500lbs more than the Audi and Mercedes!!!

This is an absolute travesty that this is happening and causing me to lose a tremendous amount of faith in the brand...The bmw should always be the benchmark and dynamically the best car out of any group of cars that its compared to and that is no longer the case...

[Superfly_M3]

Originally Posted by SouthShoreM3

I completely agree with the reliability factor of BMW being far superior. I have come from a long line of RS, S, and AMG models. All of these cars had more issues than you could possibly imagine. Especially the 4.2 V8 platform from Audi.

The only time I have my M in the shop is for performance or cosmetic reasons!

This is why I went to BMW in 2010

I still dabble with the RS brand within Audi (owning a TTRS). I am very happy with vehicle so far. Is it perfect..no. Mostly from a technology standpoint and I wish the seats were better bolstered. But, the engine and tranny have been rock solid and it's never in the shop..knock on wood..ha!

Some great points being made here.. A lot of manufacturers are trying to compete with BMW in reliability. And like one of the posters mentioned, BMW is creating vehicles to compete and regain market share from the brands that have taken business away. As others have mentioned, EPA guidelines are strict these days it almost as though car makers are told how they are allowed to make their cars (except for a few brands like the new Viper as just one example).

One thing in the background not car related is the customer service from BMW. Last year BMW sent me this beautiful carbon fiber pen just as a thank you( I'm sure many of you got this as well). In all the years I've owned Audi and MB, all I get is a crappy magazine and a mass produced letter. BMW goes above and beyond in customer satisfaction. As a result you get loyalty from the customer. I know I will always have a BMW in my garage in one way or another.

Good points. That TTRS of yours is feels like being shot out of a canon ... at 60mph. Really nice car. Really light and agile.

Welcome back.

My personal opinion is that E9X M3s are fat. At 3720lbs without driver, I think its too much. However, I think the M3 drivers much better than S4 in terms of handling and feel.

[donovan]

You know whats funny, I love my e46 m3. I will continue to drive the shit out of it.

People rarely buy a car because of what it was built for, the M-division was created a long time ago and still serves some sort of purpose. They recently opened up a new DTM m3 car to attempt to come back.

Bavarian Motor Werk to me is trying to play catch-up but have not completely lost its people. I see plenty of people that make threads showing that they have bought a brand new 2013 m3 and such..and there are other BMWs out there that are bringing in money for BMW. They are going through a massive change right now to attempt to reengage the fire for its enthusiast, but they cant please everyone.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Endless619

Why is this even a thread? Volkswago/Audi are not on the same planet. I wouldn't look twice at a Volkswagon/Audi unless its an SUV. That said. I recall a thread where Volkswagon/Audi was being compared to Honda/Acura as they should be. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Sorry to rant but not a fan.

Really!?

[donovan]

Plenty of other cars that get me going besides the Audi r8...v10 or not...
seriously.


I would love to get my hands on a real m3 GTR

[Crypty]

You mean to tell me there are a few giant audi cars i'd never buy that are better than a few giant bmw cars i'd never buy??
R8 Is cool but it's not comparable to any BMW car. At that price point there are much more lust-worthy cars.

[TheDeliverator]

I grew up in an Audi family. My Sister has only purchased Audi's. She currently owns the last 2 generations of A6...

My parents Audi's were constantly in the shop. My Sister's Audi's can't make it a month without one of them being in the shop.

Dropped her off in the M3 at the local Audi dealership on Tuesday night to pick up her 2010 A6, where an electrical fault had been "fixed," for the 3rd time... Last week I picked her up from her local Audi independent after she dropped off her older A6 for an overheating issue... Which the car has been stuck with since it was One year old!

Kudos if you have an Audi that functions! Don't be surprised if I ask you if you've been garaging it deep inside your ancient North Korean Unicorn Lair

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Crypty

You mean to tell me there are a few giant audi cars i'd never buy that are better than a few giant bmw cars i'd never buy??
R8 Is cool but it's not comparable to any BMW car. At that price point there are much more lust-worthy cars.

Nop, just saying that Audi should not be looked down upon by BMW owners and certainly not compared more to Acura then to their germans counterparts, they produce many legits sports cars like TT-RS, S4, RS4, S5, RS5, S6, S7, S8, all kinds of R8s and hoppefully the Quattro concept soon!

[BimmFiniti]

Originally Posted by mhabs

Definitely Audi is gaining the upper hand with regard to the A4/S4, A6/S6, and A8/S8 vis a vis the new generation BMWs across several comparison tests (and vis-a-vis the consumer). So far the E9x M3 has remained untouchable, but that too will probably change with the F80. It's almost like a perfect role-reversal and a little troubling given BMW had a nearly 50 year dynasty of producing performance sedans that were beyond reproach. Audi has strived to become BMW while BMW is trying to be more like Audi. Short term that will probably work for BMW, but longer-term any company in any industry that abandons its core values or tries to be something else usually doesn't pan out well. Even in the case of Porsche, whom people give a lot of heat for SUVs, large sedans, etc, is still building performance category leaders embracing and emphasizing Porsche's core performance strengths that it built up over decades. The 911 is the epitome of this philosophy...Porsche invested in the same styling/engine setup since the early 60s and faced a ton of criticism for sticking to and reinvesting in the formula until all of a sudden, they nearly perfected the car (despite the 'suboptimal' back of the rear axle engine setup).

I agree that Porsche seems to have done a much better job of diversifying while still retaining its core values. It will be interesting to watch where BMW goes in the next few years because I'm not sure what its values are anymore.

[BimmFiniti]

Originally Posted by mdyaman

What about Audi's reliability and ease to repair (especially DIY)?

I've been reading in another forum that Audi < BMW in terms of reliability, and Audi cars break down often. Wonder if it's all subjective.

Perhaps they are, I don't know. I've never owned one. However, if I had to grade my E46 330i on reliability it would fail miserably. I have had SOOOO many problems with the car - all known E46 weakness areas - but I still have it after 11 years because I love how it drives.

I have always thought of BMW as a car you drive because you love driving with reliability and cost of ownership way down the list of importance.

[BimmFiniti]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

No, I don't think that Audi has overtaken BMW. The current M3 triumphs over the much newer RS5 in nearly every comparison test. The 1M thrashes the TT-RS. And if you want a taste of artificial steering you should drive the new S4.

I think that it's closer than ever in the large performance saloon category, specifically. The M5, Panamera, E63, S models, XFR, etc. all seem legit options.

I am very anxious to see what ///M does with the F80 M3. They seem to be on the right path with it. (EDIT: Given current restrictions.. I'd much prefer an updated S65 + 100 hp )

Agreed. There are definitely some high points in BMW's lineup. I don't mean to pan the entire lineup.

The larger cars (5, 6 & 7 series) have taken a "weird" direction over the past few years, though. Used to be, the Lexus and Mercedes big cars would triumph in lux and gadgets but BMW would win with performance and driveability. They don't seem to be significantly better in driveability or performance anymore, though.

[BimmFiniti]

Originally Posted by Endless619

Why is this even a thread? Volkswago/Audi are not on the same planet. I wouldn't look twice at a Volkswagon/Audi unless its an SUV. That said. I recall a thread where Volkswagon/Audi was being compared to Honda/Acura as they should be. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Sorry to rant but not a fan.

I've never owned one, but Audi's sure seem like legit contenders against corresponding BMW models to me. They're definitely cool looking - in and out - and seem to be getting a lot of excellent reviews with the performance magazines.

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by TheDeliverator

I grew up in an Audi family. My Sister has only purchased Audi's. She currently owns the last 2 generations of A6...

My parents Audi's were constantly in the shop. My Sister's Audi's can't make it a month without one of them being in the shop.

Dropped her off in the M3 at the local Audi dealership on Tuesday night to pick up her 2010 A6, where an electrical fault had been "fixed," for the 3rd time... Last week I picked her up from her local Audi independent after she dropped off her older A6 for an overheating issue... Which the car has been stuck with since it was One year old!

Kudos if you have an Audi that functions! Don't be surprised if I ask you if you've been garaging it deep inside your ancient North Korean Unicorn Lair

I have a 2011 r8 v10 and I haven't had a single issue.

[grendel88]

I travel to and work in China a lot, and one of the funniest things I ever heard was from a quality control clerk in Guangzhou. I asked him why are there so many more BMWS in China now compared to MB. He answered beside from the fact that BMW has a plant in China, that all of the "big bosses" drive BMWS because they all know that "BMW drives the best" and that only older bosses buy MB. Dude makes like $800 a month (middle class) and he knows that "BMW is the ultimate driving machine". The marketing department is strong at BMW.

BTW Audi is the primary car choice for government officials.

[TheDeliverator]

Originally Posted by KKM3

I have a 2011 r8 v10 and I haven't had a single issue.

Good to hear Audi can make a solid car every once and a while. Glad to read you've had a good experience. R8 is a looker for sure. Spoke with an owner of an S5 at a gas station the other day. The interior was badass.

See everyone!!! This forum is still a place where people can share experiences and discuss... stuff.





BTW, In all seriousness... You wouldn't mind sharing the location of your North Korean Unicorn Lair, would you? I've been looking for some fossilized unicorn poop to sell on the black market. I've got my M3 to finance and all...

[burakkose]

Audi isn't overtaking with effort, I think BMW is losing its statue

[Ezio]

i think its dumb to call a brand like Audi or BMW unreliable cars. of course every car maker has there bad batch. but overall, the chances are your BMW or Audi will be fine. and o ya don't forget about a warranty.

[TheDeliverator]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i think its dumb to call a brand like Audi or BMW unreliable cars. of course every car maker has there bad batch. but overall, the chances are your BMW or Audi will be fine. and o ya don't forget about a warranty.

So it's dumb to relate my experience with multiple vehicles?

[alms211]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Nop, just saying that Audi should not be looked down upon by BMW owners and certainly not compared more to Acura then to their germans counterparts, they produce many legits sports cars like TT-RS, S4, RS4, S5, RS5, S6, S7, S8, all kinds of R8s and hoppefully the Quattro concept soon!


Attachment 791436

Attachment 791437

Looks like a damn Camaro

[Cl0ud7]

Originally Posted by slicer

I like Audi's styling but I have found BMW to be much more reliable and a better balanced chassis. I used to live in MN so Audi Quattro was great for winter driving. I used to have an RS6, S4, S8 and a Q7. All of those cars had odd repair needs. S4 needed a new transmission after 12k miles, Q7 needed an engine repair that took 2 weeks (at 20k miles) and the RS6 had recurring suspension issues. The S8 had a weird electronic glitch that required a reset of the computer to fix (found this out after two shops made multiple attempts to fix over a few weeks). I think Audi is improving but I have had 0 issues with my M3 after 36k miles. Same was true for my '05 e36 M3 and '01 328i back in the day....

Ya, I agree...My brothers 2011 A8L with 15k+ on the clock has been in/out of the dealership for months because of electrical issues....Losing data/phone contact info, back up camera not working, nav screen not working...you name it...