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      10-16-2012, 01:24 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
...I'm curious what the RANGE of camber adjustment is. For example, if I installed these plates, set them to their minimum setting, and got an alignment for -2 degrees, what would my camber be after switching them to max camber? And how much does toe change from minimum to maximum?
I can't tell you exactly what camber you will end up with at the extremes of the camber plate, as it always depends on other factors. But on the 1M tester (yes, it's not an M3, but the front suspension is almost identical) we worked with we made no changes to the car except add camber plates and measured a minimum camber of 1.3 and maximum camber of 2.8 degrees. That is a 1.5 degree sweep in the camber plate.

I can make recommendations for alignment, but they are baselines. One of the reasons you use a camber plate (other than more camber) is the ease of adjustability. Depending on the tires you use, the way you drive, the conditions of your bushings and other factors, you might want a little more or little less camber or toe. Experience will tell you how you want the car to feel on the track and street. Do you want it more nervous and quick acting or more stable and slower to react? Learning how to use the adjustability allows you to make changes and fine tune your alignment for your exact situation.
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      10-16-2012, 04:52 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
It was the black sedan that had the vorshlag plates. I saw a blue M3 in the red group but never saw where you parked...was that you?
Ah yes, I remember talking to that person, just didn't notice the plates. I was in Blue Group so that wasn't me; I got moved to Yellow for TWS CCW but had never run CW, and from the experience, Blue was definitely the right place for me my first time in that direction. I was parked just beside the road leading out to the slalom course next to a Boss 302S.

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Originally Posted by modernbeat View Post
I can't tell you exactly what camber you will end up with at the extremes of the camber plate, as it always depends on other factors. But on the 1M tester (yes, it's not an M3, but the front suspension is almost identical) we worked with we made no changes to the car except add camber plates and measured a minimum camber of 1.3 and maximum camber of 2.8 degrees. That is a 1.5 degree sweep in the camber plate.

I can make recommendations for alignment, but they are baselines. One of the reasons you use a camber plate (other than more camber) is the ease of adjustability. Depending on the tires you use, the way you drive, the conditions of your bushings and other factors, you might want a little more or little less camber or toe. Experience will tell you how you want the car to feel on the track and street. Do you want it more nervous and quick acting or more stable and slower to react? Learning how to use the adjustability allows you to make changes and fine tune your alignment for your exact situation.
Thanks, that info helps quite a bit! Adjustability is exactly what I'm going for because I want more grip on the track but still would rather not drive a track car on the road. I suspect these plates plus a square setup (which will require a set of dedicated track tires since the front-size 220Ms don't seem to fit 265s very well) will be in my near future. Thanks again!
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      10-16-2012, 10:24 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
If you go to the track frequently then excessive wear from street driving is a non issue. Unless you're running on rock wheels fred flinstone style, you'll wear out the tires from track use. If you run a lot of camber on the street, the insides wear. But on the track, most of your wear comes on the outside shoulder. A square setup will extend tire life significantly. I try to stick to this rotation with directional tires:

Swap front to rear
Flip all 4 tires/same corner
Swap front to rear

...then I haven't gotten past that.

If you run assymetrical tires (like PSS)...I'd just rotate the best tire to the corner which will see the most wear and then the worst tire to the corner that will see the least amount of wear. But I'm not an expert on that.

This is what my E46 tires looked like after 50 sessions + 2 wet days + 6k street miles. I didn't even flip them...probably could have gotten a couple more sessions.

so are you saying i will be okay with those intended settings? mileage on the street will not wear my tires nearly as much as track as you said. i guess im trying to balance inside wear (street use) ,and outside wear (track use) so my tires wear relatively evenly. max fun on the track and minimum negative impact.
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      10-17-2012, 10:29 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
so are you saying i will be okay with those intended settings? mileage on the street will not wear my tires nearly as much as track as you said. i guess im trying to balance inside wear (street use) ,and outside wear (track use) so my tires wear relatively evenly. max fun on the track and minimum negative impact.
My point was that street wear is normally a neglible consideration for a car that sees frequent track time (a weekend every 1-2 months). If you are putting a ton of highway miles on the tires between every event then you might want to look into less aggressive camber or having a street and track setting. If you are just driving around town, then I would just focus on the track settings.

Just my opinion. I do drive about 1500 miles per month on the street plus about 3 days at the track/mo. I drive my E46 with -3.0 camber up front. Above is what the tires looked like using my rotation schedule sans the tire flip.
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      10-17-2012, 02:36 PM   #71
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More plates are coming guys!
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      10-20-2012, 10:02 PM   #72
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Vorshlag plates worked great!

Update: Vorshlag camber plates worked well at TWS PDS. The increased front/rear camber allowed me to lower my best lap time (CCW) by nearly 2 seconds. I set a new PB of 1:59.6 and averaged 2:01-2:02 most of the day. Tire temps across the thread was much better and only varied 5 degrees. Tire pressures (Hankook R-S3's) were 32 degrees cold and 37 degrees hot. I will be increasing the front camber to -2.5 before the next track day in search of a little more front grip.
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      10-20-2012, 10:04 PM   #73
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With your plates, its even more satisfying when I catch you! Haha.

Seriously, nice driving today. It took me the whole session!
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      10-20-2012, 10:19 PM   #74
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Thanks! It was a lot of fun! Glad you decided to ditch MSR and do TWS instead. I just registered for November.
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      10-21-2012, 12:05 PM   #75
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First time attaching vid. Hope this works!

This is a video showing neutral handling using Vorshlag camber plates and -2.1 degrees front camber. Rear was set at -2.0 degrees, with front and rear toe set at .05 degrees per side. Tire temps did not vary more than 5 degrees from inner to outer. I will try increasing front camber to -2.5 next track day.

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      10-22-2012, 01:18 AM   #76
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HPA is the largest Vorshlag BMW camber plate stocking dealer! Nearly all strut profile and spring perch sizes are all in stock. Including the hard to find JRZ and Ohlins.
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      10-24-2012, 12:37 AM   #77
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Just a couple sets of these plates left!
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      10-30-2012, 05:11 PM   #78
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Plates went in today. Set front to negative 2.5 and rear to 2.0 with a neutral toe up front and slight toe in out back if I remember right. Track test sunday but will probably be fairly wet.
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      10-31-2012, 11:01 AM   #79
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How many more sessions can I expect on these RS3's?

I have 24 sessions on a set of Hankook RS3's and I wanted to know if they have enough thread left for another weekend (12 sessions)? All four tires are in the same condition, and have been recently flipped on the rim to prevent cording outer edge (right side is new outer edge). I have already purchased a new set of tires, but do not have the space to take to the track with me.
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      10-31-2012, 03:22 PM   #80
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You're about halfway...maybe. Definitely good for another weekend.
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      10-31-2012, 05:39 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
You're about halfway...maybe. Definitely good for another weekend.
Thanks! Have fun at MSRH this weekend!
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      10-31-2012, 06:33 PM   #82
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Just monitor the inside edge throughout the weekend.
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      10-31-2012, 09:10 PM   #83
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Just monitor the inside edge throughout the weekend.
Yes, the now inside edge is most worn. Camber plates sooner would have given me more even wear. Thanks!
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      11-05-2012, 01:35 AM   #84
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positive results for me today at Pacific Raceways. Had slightly damp track for most of the day and still managed 2 consecutive laps both of which were PRs. Camber plates and alignment made it a little more tricky to drive in the wet but made me feel like superman once it dried out some.
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      11-28-2012, 11:30 PM   #85
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Plates are in stock and ready to ship!
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      11-28-2012, 11:39 PM   #86
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and they work. one of my best mods, along with track pads and tune.
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      11-30-2012, 10:40 PM   #87
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+1
I increased front camber with Vorshlag plates to -2.5 deg. I think the handling is now spot on. The car now rotates much easier in tight corners by modulating throttle. The characteristic push of the stock setup is now gone. I did manage to set a new personal best. TWS (CCW) 1:58:95 on worn RS3's. I will be switching to NT01's for the next HPDE. I will post impressions of NT01's with Vorshlag plates.

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      12-13-2012, 11:28 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ortho281 View Post
First time attaching vid. Hope this works!

This is a video showing neutral handling using Vorshlag camber plates and -2.1 degrees front camber. Rear was set at -2.0 degrees, with front and rear toe set at .05 degrees per side. Tire temps did not vary more than 5 degrees from inner to outer. I will try increasing front camber to -2.5 next track day.

nice pass of the porsche!
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