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      11-29-2012, 09:28 AM   #67
Raja Ventureshield
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I have had Porsche in manual tranny as well as bmw(s) and other japanese cars in manual. Keep in mind that Porsche's clutch is very much different than bmw or honda. it's a bit more sensitive and precise, so requires a little more attention than bmws/hondas. No sweat. I just think you have to get used to the clutch pressure and you will be fine. 964 being an older porsche, i am even sure I would stall if not properly applied.
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      11-29-2012, 09:39 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I have been driving manual for 15 years exclusively... Parallel parking along steep streets and reversing uphill is part of my daily routine. The M3 is the first car I have ever owned with hill start. It is not a problem of knowledge.

If you have someone stuck 2 feet from your back bumper while going up a very steep incline with another car 2 feet from your front bumper, try starting without rolling backwards or riding the clutch hard. Plus do this about 20 times while creeping up the hill with traffic. I use the parking brake technique as well but you still ride the clutch when you start. It's really scary when it rains.. then you if you start too fast, you'll burn rubber while rolling backwards.


you my friend are BRAVE. Even I would get an automatic if i lived in San Franciso. No joke there. They have the most hilly hoads i have ever seen. Beautiful city, spent a lot of time there and would love to go there every chance i get. Jealous of city and your bravery.
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      11-29-2012, 01:47 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
If you have someone stuck 2 feet from your back bumper while going up a very steep incline with another car 2 feet from your front bumper, try starting without rolling backwards or riding the clutch hard. Plus do this about 20 times while creeping up the hill with traffic. I use the parking brake technique as well but you still ride the clutch when you start. It's really scary when it rains.. then you if you start too fast, you'll burn rubber while rolling backwards.
Yeah, there's a bit of a difference between Dallas and San Francisco.
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      11-29-2012, 01:53 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by TTSam View Post
I just missed the lack of total control in the DCT - especially with winter driving in poor conditions when the throttle and clutch are all that is needed to get going and stop in super slippery conditions, with a slight use of the brakes at the end.

DCT pretty much requires the brakes be used.
Not sure I understand why, and I've been driving MT in snowy conditions for 20+ years. The main advantage of a manual in snow is using engine compression braking, and in S mode, you can easily achieve that. DCT gives the additional advantage in snow of shifting smoother than any person, particularly in S1/S2, giving less chance for slip/skid. That's what it seems like to me, anyway.

I will admit I mostly drove my R32 on the snowy days last year, even though I had winter tires for the M3. This year, the A/S tires got replaced with summers on my R32 daily driving wheels, so the M3 will need to be a true winter DD for me. Any other DCT owning ex-manual drivers find themselves wishing for a manual in the snow?
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      11-29-2012, 01:55 PM   #71
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      11-29-2012, 02:30 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja Ventureshield View Post
you my friend are BRAVE. Even I would get an automatic if i lived in San Franciso. No joke there. They have the most hilly hoads i have ever seen. Beautiful city, spent a lot of time there and would love to go there every chance i get. Jealous of city and your bravery.
If you let off the brake for a couple of seconds on the steep streets and you'll start sliding backwards at 20-30mph... its pretty scary.

I learned that there are some roads I just avoid... or park and walk. SF is not car friendly in general. But yes, I would totally own an automatic if I had to drive everyday!
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      11-29-2012, 03:47 PM   #73
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Learned driving manual in my e92 M3 2 years ago. Stalled it several times in the first 2 months or so and then it became second nature. Now I don't change it with anything! Nothing more enjoyable than rev matching and getting it right everytime in your daily driving.
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      11-29-2012, 03:52 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
If you let off the brake for a couple of seconds on the steep streets and you'll start sliding backwards at 20-30mph... its pretty scary.

I learned that there are some roads I just avoid... or park and walk. SF is not car friendly in general. But yes, I would totally own an automatic if I had to drive everyday!
likely i'll be moving to SF in the next year. I've been scoping out the city to see if it was 6MT friendly and I agree. You basicallyjus tneed to know the roads to avoid and that's my plan. At times all it takes is driving 3 -5 blocks over and it makes all the difference in steepness of a hill.
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      11-29-2012, 03:54 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja Ventureshield View Post
I have had Porsche in manual tranny as well as bmw(s) and other japanese cars in manual. Keep in mind that Porsche's clutch is very much different than bmw or honda. it's a bit more sensitive and precise, so requires a little more attention than bmws/hondas. No sweat. I just think you have to get used to the clutch pressure and you will be fine. 964 being an older porsche, i am even sure I would stall if not properly applied.
My 997S clutch was not much different than my 2011 M3, now the shifter is a totally different story as it was like a rifle bolt in the PCar.

Dave
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      11-29-2012, 04:07 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
likely i'll be moving to SF in the next year. I've been scoping out the city to see if it was 6MT friendly and I agree. You basicallyjus tneed to know the roads to avoid and that's my plan. At times all it takes is driving 3 -5 blocks over and it makes all the difference in steepness of a hill.
I usually look on a map where some place is before going. I generally know where there is parking/garages and how far it takes to walk if I need to.

If you are living in the actual city, make sure to get a garage space! Street parking can be found in most areas but your car will look like swiss cheese after a couple of months. The term is "parking by braille" and most city residents do it.
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      11-29-2012, 04:14 PM   #77
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I drove automatics in high school and never wanted to try a 5 speed manual. I learned several years after I got out of high school. I wanted the 2000 Acura NSX or 2001 Honda S2000 and the S2000 only came in manual so I borrowed my friends 5 speed civic and beat the crap out of it in a huge parking lot for about a week then figured it out and went and bought the S2000. I still had the fear of driving at night and several late nights later I was just fine and to the day I will take a manual over any automatic, SMG, DCT, etc transmission. Just feels a lot better having been in those types of cars. I do have an automatic X5 for practicality and love it.

If you learn how to drive a 5 speed in downtown SF I would fear no other highway/road in America.
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      11-29-2012, 04:16 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
likely i'll be moving to SF in the next year. I've been scoping out the city to see if it was 6MT friendly and I agree. You basicallyjus tneed to know the roads to avoid and that's my plan. At times all it takes is driving 3 -5 blocks over and it makes all the difference in steepness of a hill.
Actually incorrect as all 2007 and newer BMW have rollback assist now so you get that 4 second delay as if you have your e-brake on, thus SF not an issue for newer cars. Having lived there for 4 years I fear no roads there. Now if those roads have ice, thats a different story.
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      11-29-2012, 07:34 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlr View Post
I've never owned a manual, but I can drive them decently well.

When I got DCT I drove maybe 25% of the time in manual mode, but now it's more like 90%.

I won't be going back to an automatic (in case it's not clear, I don't consider DCT to be an "automatic")
In what way is the DCT not an automatic. The internal mechanism may be different from older generation automatics, but is it not capable of shifting gears automatically i.e. without direct driver action?
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      11-30-2012, 12:04 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
In what way is the DCT not an automatic. The internal mechanism may be different from older generation automatics, but is it not capable of shifting gears automatically i.e. without direct driver action?


You can argue that DCT is closer to a manual transmission MECHANICALLY, but it's far closer to an automatic FUNCTIONALLY, and honestly I think function is the more important factor all things (and all customers) considered. Mercedes AMG transmissions aren't traditional automatics with slushboxes, but they're still called automatics because "automatic" pertains to function, not whether there's a torque converter. Even the Ford Fusion has a DCT these days; in the unlikely event that the subject of the transmission comes up from potential Fusion customers, do you think Ford salespeople would explain it to them as "like a manual" or "like an automatic"?

A transmission that can shift on its own is an automatic transmission, end of story. Having paddle shifters to control shifts and even having clutch plates doesn't make it a manual, any more than some hypothetical transmission with a clutch pedal and an H-pattern shifter that the car could operate autonomously would be considered a manual transmission.
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Last edited by jphughan; 11-30-2012 at 12:10 PM.
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      11-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by JBasham View Post
Yeah, there's a bit of a difference between Dallas and San Francisco.
Yeah alot less fofos..
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      11-30-2012, 12:16 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
In what way is the DCT not an automatic. The internal mechanism may be different from older generation automatics, but is it not capable of shifting gears automatically i.e. without direct driver action?
+1....the DCT is an automatic that "can" shift manually..doesnt make it a true MT by any stretch of the imagination
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      11-30-2012, 02:53 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
Most people will post here stating that they can drive a stick one way or the other.

To fully enjoy the M3 the DCT is more than sufficient.

Also, the vast majority of people interested in the M3 will have at some point in time at least tried to drive a stick.

I doubt that there will be anyone posting anything equivalent to the following: "I don't know how to drive a stick, I have never learned how to do it properly"
haha yea not one person really admitted it...strange, does it make you less macho if you dont know how??? Nope, just a victim of America! LOL
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      11-30-2012, 03:10 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
In what way is the DCT not an automatic. The internal mechanism may be different from older generation automatics, but is it not capable of shifting gears automatically i.e. without direct driver action?
Can't believe we are going back to this argument again....

DCT is not an automaic, it's an "automated manual" transmission to be exact.
I've owned a DCT and you instantly know it behaves differently from the regular conventional automatic. Ex. the clutch is disengaged when you press a brake pedal on street lights, soon as you tap a gas a little you feel it engages again, just like the manual tranny.
Also DCT doesn't shift itself to the next gear even when the rev counter is bouncing where regular automatics do shift to the next gear when it hits the rev limiter.
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      11-30-2012, 04:35 PM   #85
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^ The fact that DCT doesn't creep and doesn't shift at redline (when in manual mode) doesn't mean it doesn't work automatically. Slushbox automatics could be programmed to do both of those things and they'd still be autos because although those behaviors are true of most if not all slushboxes today, they're not what make an auto an auto.
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      12-01-2012, 12:11 AM   #86
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Got a 10 minute listen the month before my euro delivery. Learned just enough to get it going but was way nervous. I've had it for 6 months now and got really competent after about 2 months. I'm glad I finally learned
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