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      11-18-2012, 10:38 AM   #45
JerryK73
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Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
Guess you really haven't been all over the country after all. New Jersey and Oregon both do not allow self service. And yes, it does create jobs, technically speaking, but they are jobs that the economy would not normally support, except when artificially created by Government regulation, and those "jobs" actually cost everyone in those states in higher gas prices. No telling how many jobs are lost due to lost economic activity due to pointless make-work, non-productive jobs like pumping gas.
This may be true in Oregon, as far as raising the gas prices are concerned, traditionally gas in New Jersey happens to be one of the lowest in the country.
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      11-18-2012, 11:04 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Rshane
Doesn't sound like an octane problem but, an Ethenol problem. Octane won't affect your mileage much however, Ethenol will. Ethenol has a much lower energy rating, meaning it takes more to make the same power.
Its an ethanol problem. I was told that ethanol was short so gas was being sent without the 10% ethanol
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      11-18-2012, 11:45 PM   #47
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I have run into this several times in the past on different cars (ethanol affecting MPG). You don't notice it as much in most "normal" cars, but the more high performance the more you notice it. Just my experience.
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      11-19-2012, 04:12 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
you insult the OP by using the term 'bust your nuts'
Preceded by "I don't mean to"

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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
disparagingly dismiss his 'premium sports coupe.
Disparaging? Really? Not a subtle emphasis of the point of my post which was "perspective"?

Last edited by ndj; 11-19-2012 at 04:21 AM.
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      11-19-2012, 05:53 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JerryK73 View Post
This may be true in Oregon, as far as raising the gas prices are concerned, traditionally gas in New Jersey happens to be one of the lowest in the country.
So what's your point. There are a multitude of reasons for differences in gas prices from one state to another. The fact remains, gas in NJ would be cheaper to consumers if they could pump their own. That's not debatable.
The fact that 48 states manage to pump their own without any outcry to end the practice means that 2 states are doing nothing more than creating make-work, non-productive regulations that make no economic sense. That is also not debatable.
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      11-19-2012, 07:27 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
So what's your point. There are a multitude of reasons for differences in gas prices from one state to another. The fact remains, gas in NJ would be cheaper to consumers if they could pump their own. That's not debatable.
The fact that 48 states manage to pump their own without any outcry to end the practice means that 2 states are doing nothing more than creating make-work, non-productive regulations that make no economic sense. That is also not debatable.
I have to disagree that it makes no economic sense. Yes, the government may be creating menial jobs however look at the unemployment rates for both Oregon (37th) and New Jersey (48th) and while that may not be the sole contributing factor to their rankings it definitely eases the burden of the cost of welfare in those states.
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      11-19-2012, 08:37 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by JerryK73 View Post
I have to disagree that it makes no economic sense. Yes, the government may be creating menial jobs however look at the unemployment rates for both Oregon (37th) and New Jersey (48th) and while that may not be the sole contributing factor to their rankings it definitely eases the burden of the cost of welfare in those states.
There are unintended and somewhat unmeasurable consequences. But just because it is unmeasurable doesn't mean it isn't there. There is no telling how many jobs are lost in the economy due to the higher cost of gas that everyone has to pay. But, just like higher taxes, the economy would do better without the artificially higher gas prices. There would undoubtedly be a higher number of productive jobs overall in our society without the gas jockeys doing something that doesn't need to be done, but it's not directly measurable, so... we end up having discussions like this.
If it made economic sense, then why doesn't the government just dictate that more jobs be created. Doesn't matter if they are productive or needed, just pay people for showing up to their make-work jobs and like magic the unemployment rate goes down and the economy improves, right? Sorry, doesn't work like that.
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      11-20-2012, 03:36 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
There are unintended and somewhat unmeasurable consequences. But just because it is unmeasurable doesn't mean it isn't there. There is no telling how many jobs are lost in the economy due to the higher cost of gas that everyone has to pay. But, just like higher taxes, the economy would do better without the artificially higher gas prices. There would undoubtedly be a higher number of productive jobs overall in our society without the gas jockeys doing something that doesn't need to be done, but it's not directly measurable, so... we end up having discussions like this.
If it made economic sense, then why doesn't the government just dictate that more jobs be created. Doesn't matter if they are productive or needed, just pay people for showing up to their make-work jobs and like magic the unemployment rate goes down and the economy improves, right? Sorry, doesn't work like that.
Actually the government has done that (though not necessarily "make-work jobs" as you describe full service gas attendants). Just look at FDR's first term as President.

You've also stated in a previous post that getting rid of full service would lower the price of gas and I agree that initially it would but eventually the price of gas would just return to the same prices (assuming that there are no other outside variables to influence a raise in the price) as full service due to the distributors raising the wholesale price.
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      11-20-2012, 04:43 PM   #53
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Just an update to my original post. Yesterday I filled up with Premium from my usual Hess station and I'm currently averaging 18.2 MPG, which is right around where I usually am. Pretty much confirms that there was something definetly up with the gas from the BP.

Last edited by Ghetto2315; 11-20-2012 at 06:08 PM.
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      11-20-2012, 05:11 PM   #54
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I'm surprised you were even able to get Premium. Even up to the end of last week many stations had nothing but regular. Every gas station that I went to said no premium. The refineries were hit pretty hard by the storm.
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