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      08-18-2007, 12:09 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by kishg View Post
+10 on the cayman s handling and drive. btw, cayman s can be had for significant discounts under msrp so i'm not sure it is overpriced. it's a great car. btw, lsd swap into a cayman s is quite a common mod. look on www.caymanclub.net for more details.
Kishg,
I believe I have seen your posts over at the Cayman Club. It's good to see you put in a good word for the vaunted M. It gets some respect there but not nearly enough. I believe the Cayman can get away without an LSD better than any other car because of it's other world chassis. However, it's shame it isn't included, considering the steep price. I am waiting for DFI and the facelift before making any final decisions. Interestingly, the only car that looks like it will be able to compete with the Vette in regards to dollar to performance ratio is the Skyline GTR.
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      08-18-2007, 12:34 PM   #90
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Lucid
I am telling you, and this is coming from a hardcore M fan, I was susprised at how much the Cayman S raises bar in regards to the total driving experience. Sitting in the cockpit is like wearing a fine italian glove. No car will make you look like a professional driver more than this car. With the mid engine design and weighing in at a feather weight 2976 lbs it doesn't take a MIT Grad to see the handling limits are crazy high. IMO, It is probably the easiest car on the planet to to drive really fast. And you rarely hear Cayman enthusiasts cry out for DCT tranny. The 6 MT in the car is so good I would never consider it with any other transmission. This is one car where you want all the driving involvement you can get. That being said, PAG makes BMW look like a charity organization. Everything is a cost option including Bi-Xenon. The problem with the Cayman, at this point, is they are over priced, take a big depreciation hit, and are egregiously underpowered, especially considering the world class chassis it rides on. The M is a fat pig but is going to be a bargain by comparison and it comes with a Ferrari like motor as a no cost option. Now if they will just base price it in the mid 50s. Anything higher and the Cayman S may be too addictive to stay away from.
Yep, the Cayman is really light. It actually turns out the Cayman S is not all that underpowered (see below for curb weight/hp numbers). If the price difference between a similarly equipped M3 and Cayman S is more than $15k, the Cayman S starts making sense. Otherwise, I'd most likely still go with the M3, but gotta drive both first!

CaymanS 10.01
911 9.74
911S 9.06
E46 M3 10.26
E92 M3 8.70 (based on a 3600lbs curb weight estimate)
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      08-18-2007, 12:51 PM   #91
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Hmmm...Interesting. What exactly do you mean by "significant"?
Check out the used Caymans on eBay. A lot of them have only 5k miles or so and are selling for 15-20k under MSRP.

This is a great deal and worth it if you dont need a backseat.
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      08-18-2007, 01:03 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Yep, the Cayman is really light. It actually turns out the Cayman S is not all that underpowered (see below for curb weight/hp numbers). If the price difference between a similarly equipped M3 and Cayman S is more than $15k, the Cayman S starts making sense. Otherwise, I'd most likely still go with the M3, but gotta drive both first!

CaymanS 10.01
911 9.74
911S 9.06
E46 M3 10.26
E92 M3 8.70 (based on a 3600lbs curb weight estimate)
The frustrating thing is the Cayman Chassis could easily handle the 3.6 litre from the GT3 rated at 415 hp and 115.3 horses per litre. Problem is the Cayman chassis is so good it has to by hampererd by PAG by giving it a significantly inferior motor and no LSD to prevent the iconic rear engined Carrera from becoming a distant memory.
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      08-18-2007, 01:08 PM   #93
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I am also a huge fan of the Cayman S's driving experience. The bang for the buck factor isn't there though. If only Porsche would build an RS model.... THAT, I'd pay good money for. But no, they come out with some Design Edition with a big racing stripe and badges for 2008!

I really would LOVE to have a Cayman S but I just can't justify it.

It is a really sweet car to drive though, and I do look over with envy every time I see one on the road.....
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      08-18-2007, 01:17 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by ruff View Post
The frustrating thing is the Cayman Chassis could easily handle the 3.6 litre from the GT3 rated at 415 hp and 115.3 horses per litre. Problem is the Cayman chassis is so good it has to by hampererd by PAG by giving it a significantly inferior motor and no LSD to prevent the iconic rear engined Carrera from becoming a distant memory.
Just to be picky (and without having driven the thing), but here are the 3 things that would make me definetely consider a Cayman S.

1. Base 911 engine (although the GT3 engine would be nice, but realistically speaking).
2. LSD
3. Reworking of the rear lights/end. I sometimes think that it actually kind looks like the front of the car. (Looks great from just about any other angle)
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      08-18-2007, 01:22 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
I am also a huge fan of the Cayman S's driving experience. The bang for the buck factor isn't there though. If only Porsche would build an RS model.... THAT, I'd pay good money for. But no, they come out with some Design Edition with a big racing stripe and badges for 2008!

I really would LOVE to have a Cayman S but I just can't justify it.

It is a really sweet car to drive though, and I do look over with envy every time I see one on the road.....
Hans,
You are exactly right and that is why it is going to be critical that the facelift, (best estimates are fall of 08) at the very least bumps up horsepower and MPG with DFI without a significant price increase.
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      08-18-2007, 01:47 PM   #96
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Hans,
You are exactly right and that is why it is going to be critical that the facelift, (best estimates are fall of 08) at the very least bumps up horsepower and MPG with DFI without a significant price increase.

If they increase HP for 2008... I am going to be tempted as well! Even with all the negatives I know about Porsche ownership, a well set-up Cayman will still drive like nothing else... and for a car nut, you can't really put a price on that.
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      08-18-2007, 01:54 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Just to be picky (and without having driven the thing), but here are the 3 things that would make me definetely consider a Cayman S.

1. Base 911 engine (although the GT3 engine would be nice, but realistically speaking).
2. LSD
3. Reworking of the rear lights/end. I sometimes think that it actually kind looks like the front of the car. (Looks great from just about any other angle)
Lucid,
If PAG would do the first two things you requested, the choice for me and many other enthusiast would be way to easy. In addition, the Cayman would kill the Carrera and the Carrera would be no more. The Carrera has a great Chassis but IMO the Cayman has best Chassis on the planet, minus the motor. PAG will never put the base 997 engine in the Cayman. It would be like BMW putting the V10 in the M3, meaning the end of the M5. I have stated elsewhere the Cayman is so good it doesn't need an LSD near as bad as say the 335/M3. There are spy shots of the upcoming facelift on the web for reference. From my stand point, the Cayman is such a great a drivers car that with the expected DFI to bump up power and mileage this may easily outweigh the bargain of the M3. The Cayman has also shown to be reliable. I know you are weary of independent tests but as an FYI, J.D. Power rated the Cayman S highest in it's class for initial quality. As they say, you just have to drive one to really appreciate it's driving prowess and virtues.
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      08-18-2007, 04:30 PM   #98
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If I can't get the M3 because of money, I want a 1984 SAAB Turbo with 12" Daytons...
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      08-18-2007, 05:13 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
Lucid,
If PAG would do the first two things you requested, the choice for me and many other enthusiast would be way to easy. In addition, the Cayman would kill the Carrera and the Carrera would be no more. The Carrera has a great Chassis but IMO the Cayman has best Chassis on the planet, minus the motor. PAG will never put the base 997 engine in the Cayman. It would be like BMW putting the V10 in the M3, meaning the end of the M5. I have stated elsewhere the Cayman is so good it doesn't need an LSD near as bad as say the 335/M3. There are spy shots of the upcoming facelift on the web for reference. From my stand point, the Cayman is such a great a drivers car that with the expected DFI to bump up power and mileage this may easily outweigh the bargain of the M3. The Cayman has also shown to be reliable. I know you are weary of independent tests but as an FYI, J.D. Power rated the Cayman S highest in it's class for initial quality. As they say, you just have to drive one to really appreciate it's driving prowess and virtues.
I don't really have any mistrust agains the JD surveys because they are simply low level surveys reflecting the views of the owners who respond. There isn't a whole lot of science involved apart from the sampling issues. I have had friends with nightmare early-boxter issues though that cost them thousands to fix. Are you saying that is not the case for the Cayman? That would be good.
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      08-18-2007, 08:06 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
If they increase HP for 2008... I am going to be tempted as well! Even with all the negatives I know about Porsche ownership, a well set-up Cayman will still drive like nothing else... and for a car nut, you can't really put a price on that.
While waiting for the m3 i've driven quite a few of the alternatives i'd consider, Audi RS4, Carrera S, 335 etc and none comes close to the cayman s handling and fun factor. The drive is simply amazing.. if they increase HP with DFI then the cayman s will be almost impossible to resist. esp if the M3 comes in with over 60k base.
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