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      11-14-2012, 10:43 PM   #1
enron29
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Rental Property Help

So I have a situation I was hoping someone could help me with. I own a rental property where the current tenant's current lease is up on Nov. 20th. She has already moved out and has just been cleaning and patching holes and stuff.

We are trying to get a realtor out there to put a lock box to be able to put it on the MLS and be able to show it. But the current tenant says that we are not allowed to enter the premises since it is considered hers still.

Is this true, or are we allowed to show it when we can since she has vacated the premises? Please, if anyone could give me a quick answer, I would greatly appreciate it. It says on page 33 of the CA Landlord/Tenant laws that we could enter if the tenant has moved out or abandoned the unit. I know technically that she has not "abandoned" the unit, but she has moved out.
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      11-14-2012, 10:47 PM   #2
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i have a property myself, and I'm actually not even sure either. I'll ask my dad tomorrow lol.
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      11-15-2012, 01:07 AM   #3
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I don't see why you could be enter the property when they are still paying rent.
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      11-15-2012, 01:13 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Inspired View Post
I don't see why you could be enter the property when they are still paying rent.
So nobody has ever shown a place to get new tenants when a current tenant is there or not even there???
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      11-15-2012, 01:15 AM   #5
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One of my employees rents (not leases, not sure if that makes any difference), and she was constantly telling me about having to keep the place clean since the owners were showing it to sell it.

Not sure what California law has to say about it. I have several rental properties, but they're in Oregon (I do live in California, but don't have rentals here).
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      11-15-2012, 01:19 AM   #6
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She just sent a text basically saying that we are not allowed in the property until the day after the rental agreement is over. So I'm not allowed in my home to show it to prospective clients? It says in our contract that we can show it and in California law.
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      11-15-2012, 02:18 AM   #7
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So if she has vacated the property and is not living there, so showing it is not an interruption of privacy or peace, do I still have to give 24 hour notice?
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      11-15-2012, 02:30 AM   #8
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If it's listed in California law, then by all means.

Honestly, I'd be curious as to if she's hiding something, if she's so protective/secretive over the whole thing.
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      11-15-2012, 03:29 AM   #9
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Do you have a written or oral agreement with the tenant? By law, the tenant can stay there until the end of the written agreement. If you have an oral agreement, then you may be able to get your place back sooner.

Check this out. It's written by the state of California.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...k/catenant.pdf
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      11-15-2012, 07:06 AM   #10
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Typically there is a clause that says the owner can enter with 24 hour notice. It's normal to show the place when the lease is almost over.
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      11-15-2012, 08:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boymonkey View Post
Typically there is a clause that says the owner can enter with 24 hour notice. It's normal to show the place when the lease is almost over.

Fuck her, it's your property.

Here is the law for California:

Quote:
When can the landlord enter the rental unit?
California law states that a landlord can enter a rental unit only for the following reasons:
• in an emergency.
• When the tenant has moved out or has
abandoned the rental unit.
• to make necessary or agreed-upon repairs, decorations, alterations, or other improvements.
• to show the rental unit to prospective tenants, purchasers, or lenders, to provide entry to contractors or workers who are to perform work on the unit, or to conduct an initial inspection before the end of the tenancy
(see initial inspection sidebar, pages 55–58).
• if a court order permits the landlord to enter.116
• if the tenant has a waterbed, to inspect
the installation of the waterbed when
the installation has been completed, and periodically after that to assure that the installation meets the law’s requirements.117
the landlord or the landlord’s agent must give the tenant reasonable advance notice in writing before entering the unit, and can enter only during normal business hours (generally,
8 a.m. to 5 p.m. on weekdays). the notice must state the date, approximate time and purpose of entry.118 however, advance written notice is not required under any of the following circumstances:
• to respond to an emergency.
• the tenant has moved out or has abandoned the rental unit.
• the tenant is present and consents to the entry at the time of entry.
• the tenant and landlord have agreed that the landlord will make repairs or supply services, and have agreed orally that the landlord
may enter to make the repairs or supply
the services. the agreement must include the date and approximate time of entry, which must be within one week of the oral agreement.119
the landlord or agent may use any one of
the following methods to give the tenant written notice of intent to enter the unit. the landlord or agent may:

• personally deliver the notice to the tenant; or
• leave the notice at the rental unit with a person of suitable age and discretion (for example, a roommate or a teenage member of the tenant’s household); or
• leave the notice on, near or under the unit’s usual entry door in such a way that it is likely to be found; or
• Mail the notice to the tenant.120

the law considers 24 hours’ advance written notice to be reasonable in most situations. if the notice is mailed to the tenant, mailing at least six days before the intended entry is presumed to be reasonable, in most situations.121 the tenant can consent to shorter notice and to entry at times other than during normal business hours. special rules apply if the purpose of the entry is to show the rental to a purchaser. in that case, the landlord or the landlord’s agent may give the tenant notice orally, either in person or by telephone. the law considers 24 hours’ notice to be reasonable in most situations. however, before oral notice can be given, the landlord or agent must first have notified the tenant in writing that the rental is for sale and that the landlord or agent may contact the tenant orally to arrange to show it. this written notice must be given to the tenant within 120 days of the oral notice. the oral notice must state the date, approximate time and purpose of entry.122 the landlord or agent may enter only during normal business hours, unless the tenant consents to entry at a different time.123 When the landlord or agent enters the rental, he or she must leave written evidence of entry, such as a business card.124 the landlord cannot abuse the right of access allowed by these rules, or use this right of access to harass (repeatedly disturb) the tenant.125 Also, the law prohibits a landlord from significantly and intentionally violating these access rules to attempt to influence the tenant to move from the rental unit.126 if your landlord violates these access rules, talk to the landlord about your concerns. if that is not successful in stopping the landlord’s misconduct, send the landlord a formal letter asking the landlord to strictly observe the access rules stated above. if the landlord continues to violate these rules, you can talk to an attorney or a legal aid organization, or file suit in small claims court to recover damages that you have suffered due to the landlord’s misconduct. if the landlord’s violation of these rules was significant and intentional, and the landlord’s purpose was to influence you to move from the rental unit, you can sue the landlord in small claims court for a civil penalty of up to $2,000 for each violation.127
It all starts on page 33 of this document: http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...ok/index.shtml
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      11-15-2012, 08:22 AM   #12
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keep her security deposit for good measure.
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      11-15-2012, 08:36 AM   #13
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Did she sign a rental agreement with you? Usually most landlords put a clause in the agreement saying they can show the unit as long as the tenant is given notice.
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      11-15-2012, 09:37 AM   #14
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I was just about to say what Seminole posted, You are allow to show the property with proper notice to the current tenant. The tenant can not refuse your request to show the property and as someone else pointed out, you can also require them to keep the property in a show-able condition otherwise they may forfeit their security deposit. That one may depend on the contract you have with them.

I hate to say this, when you own rental property you just have to be an ruthless asshole and not care about people since they will screw you and blame you for trusting them. This is why I do not own rentals, I actually care about most people and care about what I own.
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      11-15-2012, 10:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMX328 View Post
If it's listed in California law, then by all means.

Honestly, I'd be curious as to if she's hiding something, if she's so protective/secretive over the whole thing.
I know. It's weird because I know she's already moved out. She even sent a text that she was having the carpets cleaned and hoped that didn't interfere with showing it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvergray545 View Post
Do you have a written or oral agreement with the tenant? By law, the tenant can stay there until the end of the written agreement. If you have an oral agreement, then you may be able to get your place back sooner.

Check this out. It's written by the state of California.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...k/catenant.pdf
Yes, we have a written agreement. I'm not trying to fill it with a new tenant right now. I'm trying to get a realtor in there to take pictures and put a lock box on to put it on the MLS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boymonkey View Post
Typically there is a clause that says the owner can enter with 24 hour notice. It's normal to show the place when the lease is almost over.
We have let her know that since she has moved out that we are showing the property to prospective tenants. We have always texted her to let her know, even though she is not even at the home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seminole View Post
Fuck her, it's your property.

Here is the law for California:



It all starts on page 33 of this document: http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...ok/index.shtml
Exactly what I found. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by passing View Post
keep her security deposit for good measure.
Wish I could, but I guarantee if I kept just a nickle of her deposit she would fight to the bitter end. She is so paranoid about getting her deposit like my wife and I are trying to scam her. I have her full deposit sitting in a savings account this whole time. But now she is costing me money cause the realtor doesn't want to go out there and put a lock box on if she's giving a hard time about showing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Did she sign a rental agreement with you? Usually most landlords put a clause in the agreement saying they can show the unit as long as the tenant is given notice.
Yes. We do have this in our contract. She was allowing us to show it, but now she's saying we can't enter until after she turns over the keys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
I was just about to say what Seminole posted, You are allow to show the property with proper notice to the current tenant. The tenant can not refuse your request to show the property and as someone else pointed out, you can also require them to keep the property in a show-able condition otherwise they may forfeit their security deposit. That one may depend on the contract you have with them.

I hate to say this, when you own rental property you just have to be an ruthless asshole and not care about people since they will screw you and blame you for trusting them. This is why I do not own rentals, I actually care about most people and care about what I own.
I'm over being the nice guy. But I don't really have legal fees set up or time if she tries to pull something. I don't understand what the hell she would get. She has moved out and there is only 5 days left on the contract. I am just trying to get a realtor in there to start showing the place. But now she said, and I quote this, "you are welcome to enter the property at anytime beginning November 21st", which is the day after the lease agreement ends.
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      11-15-2012, 11:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enron29 View Post
I know. It's weird because I know she's already moved out. She even sent a text that she was having the carpets cleaned and hoped that didn't interfere with showing it...



Yes, we have a written agreement. I'm not trying to fill it with a new tenant right now. I'm trying to get a realtor in there to take pictures and put a lock box on to put it on the MLS.



We have let her know that since she has moved out that we are showing the property to prospective tenants. We have always texted her to let her know, even though she is not even at the home.



Exactly what I found. Thanks.



Wish I could, but I guarantee if I kept just a nickle of her deposit she would fight to the bitter end. She is so paranoid about getting her deposit like my wife and I are trying to scam her. I have her full deposit sitting in a savings account this whole time. But now she is costing me money cause the realtor doesn't want to go out there and put a lock box on if she's giving a hard time about showing it.



Yes. We do have this in our contract. She was allowing us to show it, but now she's saying we can't enter until after she turns over the keys.



I'm over being the nice guy. But I don't really have legal fees set up or time if she tries to pull something. I don't understand what the hell she would get. She has moved out and there is only 5 days left on the contract. I am just trying to get a realtor in there to start showing the place. But now she said, and I quote this, "you are welcome to enter the property at anytime beginning November 21st", which is the day after the lease agreement ends.
Written 24 hour notice is all you need. Write the letter, CC an attorney and get the realtor in there 24 hours after you place the letter on the front door. Send her an email of the letter as well.

Be cordial in the letter, explain that you are bringing in your realtor to take pictures for listing purposes. Explain that Cali law requires 24 hour notice prior to you entering the property. And that this time tomorrow you and your realtor will be there. Thank you for your cooperation. include a copy of the Cali laws and your lease agreement if you really want to CYA.
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      11-15-2012, 11:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enron29 View Post
I'm over being the nice guy. But I don't really have legal fees set up or time if she tries to pull something. I don't understand what the hell she would get. She has moved out and there is only 5 days left on the contract. I am just trying to get a realtor in there to start showing the place. But now she said, and I quote this, "you are welcome to enter the property at anytime beginning November 21st", which is the day after the lease agreement ends.
Just send her a message back along the lines of, "California law permits entry into a rented apartment in order to show the unit to prospective tenants. As required under California law I am hereby giving you 24 hours notice of my intent to enter the property to show it to prospective tenants. Please refer to California Civil Code Section 1954(d)(2) for any questions you may have."

Don't forget to do everything the law requires, which is state the approximate date and time of entry as well as leave proof that you have entered the premise (a business card or letter.)

Every day you wait to get the realtor in there to post pictures is another day you could lose a future tenant because they don't see your property.
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      11-15-2012, 11:31 AM   #18
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We have 3 rental units, all lease agrrements state explicitly that we may neter the property to show the porperty after a 30 day notice is given with 24 hours notice. Had a couple move out on Nov 3rd, their lease expired in Aug but went month to month because they said thet're moving to TX which turned out to be BS. Anyhow after they gave notice we listed it, she complianed and threatened to call Sheriffs if a realtor showed the property, I said go ahead call them referrred her to the clause in the contract and told her they will give you 24 hours notice and you will abide. No issues.

As far as withholding the dpeosit as someone suggested don't even try in Cali. Law is very specific on what you can and cannot withhold for and that's not even close.

Net of it all make sure you have in your lease/rental aggreement exactly what you expect it will save you in the long run trust me. That and a property manager that's an SOB to deal with the issues.
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Last edited by Bobble; 11-15-2012 at 12:15 PM.
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      11-15-2012, 04:33 PM   #19
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and this is why i tend to have family stay in properties.... then again, if things ever go bad... it can make things pretty sour.
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      11-16-2012, 11:51 AM   #20
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Honestly I pay 10% of the lease value to a property manager. He's a royal jack hole, has never put a tenant in that did not pay the rent and won't put up with anything. Best money ever spent but 2 of the 3 are full profit properties so it's not like it creates negative cash flow.
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      11-16-2012, 12:30 PM   #21
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What's she hiding anyway? Whorehouse?
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      11-16-2012, 02:35 PM   #22
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Yea, let us all know what drugs she is hiding in there, lol...
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