BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-08-2012, 11:13 PM   #375
bigjae1976
That's what she said...
bigjae1976's Avatar
82
Rep
5,611
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Funny coincidence that you ask, because I spent some time last weekend analyzing track footage to figure which line is quickest. I wasn't patient enough to wait until next season to get a data logger

So I calculated the sector times from the turn-in point of turn 14 to the start-finish line using the time stamp in the videos. I only considered "clean" sectors where I did not have to pass any cars.

I only had one video with the new tight/short/slow line with six "clean" passes in the sector with the following times: 2x 13.20", 2x 13.23" and 2x 13.27" for an average of 13.23". I was happily surprised with my consistency, with a max difference of only 7 hundredths of a second between passes .

I then checked two recent videos where I am taking the wide/long/fast line. Out of 10 "clean" sectors, I averaged 13.58" with a fastest of 13.37" and slowest of 13.98".

So I think I can safely conclude that the tight/short/slow line is the overall faster approach with my car in this specific sector at LCMT. There is an average difference of 0.35 seconds on a 13.5 second sector. To put it in perspective, 0.35 seconds at 100mph (the speed at the end of the sector) is 51 feet, plenty to pull a clean pass. From a different perspective, it would be the equivalent of more than 3 seconds on a 2 minute lap, not negligible. Further my fastest time of the wide line (13.33") is slower than my slowest time of the tight line (13.27").

On the specific session where I tried this new line, I did my best ever lap at 1:55.30 compared to my previous best of 1:55.53. So I am assuming that this new line was a important contributor .

I will post the video shorty as proof .

To your point of your car bogging down when you catch other cars in a corner, I believe it is important to adapt your line based on the traffic you are faced with. In an HPDE, where you cannot pass in a corner, there may not be a benefit in catching up under braking if it kills your exit speed. It is sometimes better to keep a distance going into the turn to allow you to maximize your exit speed; and then slingshot by on the straight (as long as the other driver is quick enough with the point by ). Folks with momentum cars need to be quite familiar with this technique, as it is the only way they can get by higher hp cars .
Good analysis. Yes, when I catch a car under braking, I probably need to take the wider line.

I think this also depends on the capabilities of the car. Most of the tighter 2nd gear corners (40-55mph) in TX are off camber on the outisde since the pavement is crowned. So it pays off to stay tighter towards the inside. As you widen the line you are fighting the off camber outer edge. Heavier, poorer handling cars can't even consider taking a tight line.

I'm kind of at a crossroads here. When I have an occasional instructor in the car, they are pushing me towards the "normal" line. But I'm catching people in certain places by turning on from the middle, early apex with heavy trail braking. Its hard to be consistent but I think its cutting my lap times. I need to start running data so I can confirm or deny this type of stuff.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2012, 12:30 PM   #376
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
324
Rep
10,614
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List


Car: 2011 E92 M3 DCT
Track/Course: Buttonwillow Raceway
Best Lap Time: 1:55.934
Brakes: AP Racing BBK, Mintex F3/F6 Pads
Tires (Size & Model): Hankook Ventus TD 295/30-18 Square
Suspension: KW Motorsport 2-Way Coilover Kit
Other Mods: VF620 Supercharger, Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2012, 08:42 PM   #377
kaiv
Major
United_States
24
Rep
1,237
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post


Car: 2011 E92 M3 DCT
Track/Course: Buttonwillow Raceway
Best Lap Time: 1:55.934
Brakes: AP Racing BBK, Mintex F3/F6 Pads
Tires (Size & Model): Hankook Ventus TD 295/30-18 Square
Suspension: KW Motorsport 2-Way Coilover Kit
Other Mods: VF620 Supercharger, Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust
295/30 square? Holy!

18x10 ET25 wheels?
Any spacers? Rubbing?

Congrats on the time and podium!
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 09:13 AM   #378
Car54
Captain
10
Rep
899
Posts

 
Drives: 1999 Z3 Mcoupe | 2008 M3/4
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lutz, FL

iTrader: (1)

Found a faster one!

Track/Course: Sebring 12hr
Best Lap Time: 2:31.2
Brakes: PFC 08 F, 01 R, ATE Typ200
Tires (Size & Model): 275/35/18 NT01
Suspension: Ground Control Sleeve Kit
Other Mods: Dinan Intake/Exhaust/Tune

__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 03:29 PM   #379
Porschefile
Major
Porschefile's Avatar
16
Rep
1,233
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tennessee

iTrader: (6)

More info on the 295 square setup please. Awesome looking car.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 06:05 PM   #380
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
324
Rep
10,614
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Derple View Post
What series do you race this in? Whats the hp and weight?
Last dyno was at ~570hp w/ 100oct, car is still in street form @ ~3700lbs without driver.



Dyno

Vehicle: 2011 BMW M3 Coupe (eas Project M3)
Transmission: DCT
Exhaust: Akrapovic Evolution, 100cpsi cats
Fuel: 100 Octane

This was a entered in as a last minute decision for Global Time Attack/SuperLap battle in RWD Limited Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
More info on the 295 square setup please. Awesome looking car.
Wheels are 18x10 Enkei NT03 w/ Hankook Ventus TD tires.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 10:49 PM   #381
Tuner1
Second Lieutenant
Tuner1's Avatar
Canada
12
Rep
262
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary, AB

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiv View Post
Car: E92 M3 6MT
Track: WSIR (big willow)
Best Lap Time: 1:33.657
Brakes: stock with PF01 front / stock rear
Suspension: stock with GC plates and Eibach springs
Tires (Size & Model): 265/285 R-S3
Other Mods: ~30whp worth of Macht Schnell stuff
1:33 is a very impressive lap time at WSIR, especially considering how few mods your car has. Congrats on the good driving

Do you have any future mods planned to get even closer to the magic 1:30 mark? Maybe some Hoosiers or bigger sway bars or a bunch more power?
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2012, 10:35 AM   #382
lutfy
Second Lieutenant
lutfy's Avatar
3
Rep
251
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E90 M3 DCT, 2005 997 C2S
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Washington DC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
More info on the 295 square setup please. Awesome looking car.
Tom replied: Wheels are 18x10 Enkei NT03 w/ Hankook Ventus TD tires.


Tom, I have the exact same wheels as yours. Did you make any front fender mods to stuff the 295s up front? I am currently running 275 RA1s (and they seem a bit stretched exposing the wheel lip). Would like to try 285s, 295 square would be lovely. I do run -2.5 deg camber up front (tucking in the wheel) on stock suspension. Based on the setup and running the same wheels as you, what would be the limit of front tire in this case?

Heard 275s were the bees knees and the limit up front.

Good looking car!

Cheers,

Lutfy
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2012, 01:04 PM   #383
Porschefile
Major
Porschefile's Avatar
16
Rep
1,233
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tennessee

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lutfy View Post
Tom replied: Wheels are 18x10 Enkei NT03 w/ Hankook Ventus TD tires.


Tom, I have the exact same wheels as yours. Did you make any front fender mods to stuff the 295s up front? I am currently running 275 RA1s (and they seem a bit stretched exposing the wheel lip). Would like to try 285s, 295 square would be lovely. I do run -2.5 deg camber up front (tucking in the wheel) on stock suspension. Based on the setup and running the same wheels as you, what would be the limit of front tire in this case?

Heard 275s were the bees knees and the limit up front.

Good looking car!

Cheers,

Lutfy
That's what I meant, whether there were fender mods or spacers etc.
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2012, 01:17 PM   #384
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
324
Rep
10,614
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
That's what I meant, whether there were fender mods or spacers etc.
Stock fenders, no modifications since the car is still in street form.

A 10mm spacer was used up front, with a ton of camber. Wheels are +25 offset.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-15-2012, 03:25 PM   #385
Porschefile
Major
Porschefile's Avatar
16
Rep
1,233
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tennessee

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Stock fenders, no modifications since the car is still in street form.

A 10mm spacer was used up front, with a ton of camber. Wheels are +25 offset.
Awesome, thanks! Very sweet racecar.
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2012, 07:15 AM   #386
bigjae1976
That's what she said...
bigjae1976's Avatar
82
Rep
5,611
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
That's what I meant, whether there were fender mods or spacers etc.
Stock fenders, no modifications since the car is still in street form.

A 10mm spacer was used up front, with a ton of camber. Wheels are +25 offset.
Nice. How much camber are we talking about?
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2012, 01:22 AM   #387
Minicorsa
Private
United_States
0
Rep
59
Posts

 
Drives: 09 E90 DCT M3, 04 MCS, 76 2002
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NOHO, Ca

iTrader: (1)

Car: E90 M3 DCT
Track/Course: Auto Club Speedway
Best Lap Time: 1:52.5
Brakes: OEM w/ hawk ht-10 F DTC 70 R
Tires (Size & Model): RS3's 265/285-18
Suspension: stock edc w/ H&R race springs and vorshlag camber plates
Other Mods: Gintani full cat-less exhaust
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2012, 01:49 AM   #388
xchosun1x
FNG
xchosun1x's Avatar
United_States
50
Rep
2,148
Posts

 
Drives: JZB 2008 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (9)

Kaiv!

nice time at Big Willow!
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2012, 06:27 PM   #389
kaiv
Major
United_States
24
Rep
1,237
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuner1 View Post
1:33 is a very impressive lap time at WSIR, especially considering how few mods your car has. Congrats on the good driving

Do you have any future mods planned to get even closer to the magic 1:30 mark? Maybe some Hoosiers or bigger sway bars or a bunch more power?
Thanks for the compliment!

I do not have any big mods planned. Well nothing that I think would so dramatically lower my lap times ahah.

Hoping to do a tune soon to tie in all my bolt ons and coilovers next year!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
Kaiv!

nice time at Big Willow!
Thanks James!

When are we tracking together?!
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2012, 06:39 PM   #390
kaiv
Major
United_States
24
Rep
1,237
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (15)

Car: E92 M3 6MT
Track: ACS (Auto Club Speedway)
Best Lap Time: 1:52.9
Brakes: stock with PF01 pads front / Stoptech street pads rear
Suspension: stock with GC plates and Eibach springs
Tires (Size & Model): 275 R-S3
Other Mods: MS intake, MS pullies, MS track pipes

Video:



I almost hit 160 (speedo) before slowing down for the turn!
My E90 would only hit 15x, perhaps 155 on its best day. I remember shifting into 5th right at/before the start/finish. Now I upshift a good bit before that.
And for reference my E46 would hit 145.
I'm wanna say the extra ~30whp I got from my bolt-ons are definitely putting in work!!

Last edited by kaiv; 11-19-2012 at 06:47 PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2012, 08:00 PM   #391
OC3
Havin' a blast!
OC3's Avatar
United_States
53
Rep
4,819
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

^ Good going!
__________________

BRP CW13 1:56 | CVR CW 2:01 | CVR CCW 2:02 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
2013 E92 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP | JRZ RS Pro | Brembo | Endless | Volk TE37 18x10.5 squared | NT01/TD/ContiGrandAm | no other mods, nor weight shavings
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2012, 08:49 PM   #392
Minicorsa
Private
United_States
0
Rep
59
Posts

 
Drives: 09 E90 DCT M3, 04 MCS, 76 2002
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NOHO, Ca

iTrader: (1)

NICE time didn't get a chance to meet you but nice to see someone else going out there and showing what our cars can do with very little to no modds from factory. Your speeds sound about right i usually get on the oval a touch under 100 hit 140 by the start finish and 160 climbing the "hill" to enter t1 holding 145 through t1 and t2.
I'll be going to button with speed district on the 1st and big willow on the 8th with speed ventures hope to see you guys there.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2012, 08:58 PM   #393
kaiv
Major
United_States
24
Rep
1,237
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minicorsa View Post
NICE time didn't get a chance to meet you but nice to see someone else going out there and showing what our cars can do with very little to no modds from factory. Your speeds sound about right i usually get on the oval a touch under 100 hit 140 by the start finish and 160 climbing the "hill" to enter t1 holding 145 through t1 and t2.
I'll be going to button with speed district on the 1st and big willow on the 8th with speed ventures hope to see you guys there.
We did meet Danny ahah, I'm kevin with the white coupe/red wheels. We chatted how we both are still on stock dampers and what not. I think you got me beat by like .4 or something? FAST!! See you soon at the next track day
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2012, 10:06 PM   #394
Minicorsa
Private
United_States
0
Rep
59
Posts

 
Drives: 09 E90 DCT M3, 04 MCS, 76 2002
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NOHO, Ca

iTrader: (1)

lol shit i thought you were the guy with the e46 too many meetings in one day def see you on the next one.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2012, 10:09 PM   #395
ortho281
Captain
ortho281's Avatar
United_States
11
Rep
681
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Katy, TX

iTrader: (0)

Track/Course: Texas World Speedway (CCW)
Date: November 18, 2012
Best Lap Time: 1:58:95
Brake Pads: StopTech Street Performance
Tires: 275/35-18 Hankook R-S3's
Suspension: Eibach springs, Vorshlag camber plates (f-2.5/r-2.0)
Other Mods: Akra Evo, MS stage 2, MS UDP, VF Tune, Schroth Rallye 3,
BMW performance CF splitters and rear spoiler



__________________

Akra Evo / MS stage 2 / MS UDP / VF Tune / KW Clubsports Coilovers / Vorshlag plates / TMS Delrin Bushings / ST 380/355 BBK / ST SR34 pads / Apex Arc-8 / Nitto NT01 / APR splitter and wing / Cantrell Motorsports half cage / Recaro Profi / Schroth Profi II-6 / BMW Performance Alcantera wheel / Aim Solo DL

Last edited by ortho281; 11-21-2012 at 09:34 AM.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2012, 12:37 AM   #396
Sleeper519
Captain
Sleeper519's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
768
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Car: 2008 E92 M3 DCT
Track: Road Atlanta
Best Lap Time: 1:41.96
Brakes: StopTech ST-60/40; Pagid RS29s
Suspension: stock with GC camber plates, -2.6 F
Tires (Size & Model): Nitto NT-01 275/35/18 square on Apex Arc-8s
Other Mods: MS filter

__________________

2008 M3 Coupe / DCT // StopTech BBK 380/355 / Pagid RS29 / Motul / Apex Arc-8 / BFG R1S / Ground Control / MS filter / Performance spoiler / BPM tune // Road Atlanta 1:39.80 / VIR Full 2:10.87 / Barber 1:42.20

Last edited by Sleeper519; 11-20-2012 at 02:48 PM. Reason: video URL troubleshoot
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:44 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST