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      11-14-2012, 11:54 AM   #67
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Update

Had a question for all those who helped out on this before. I recently put on an Akra midpipe (love it) and while i was doing the install I noticed that the header gasket on the drivers side was totally shredded. When I pulled off the stock midpipe what was left of the gasket ring just fell off along with the fitting that the midpipe bolts up to. Gasket ring on the passenger side was fine (see pics below.) Any chance this could have contributed to the low dyno numbers? I am going to schedule another dyno run and will post up the results, although won't be directly applicable since I will be doing it with the full Evo setup.

New gasket ring v. old



Old one on passenger side still in good shape


Whats left of the old shredded gasket fused to the stock midpipe


The midpipe has never been removed - bought the car new and I've never had work done that would require removing the stock midpipe. Anybody ever seen this before?

Loving the added power and smoothness from the Akra x-pipe, such an improvement. Can only imagine how much better it will get with a tune!
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      11-14-2012, 12:09 PM   #68
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Seen it lots of times before, it's a wear part. Condition depends on a number of factors like driving habits, mileage, etc.

Glad you are happy with the Akrapovic!
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      11-14-2012, 12:13 PM   #69
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Thanks Tom. Would a gasket in that poor shape contribute to a leak / affect the dyno results?
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      11-14-2012, 02:03 PM   #70
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How badly was it leaking? If it was leaking, you would see a lot of black residue around the connection.

I am not an expert in the E90M3 ECU, but my guess is that there would be no change because the remaining exhaust gas would all have the same AFR as if none had escaped. If fresh air was being drawn in through the leak, then the AFR would lean out and the ECU would add fuel to restore it and eventually throw a code.
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      11-14-2012, 03:39 PM   #71
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Given the condition of the gasket, I was assuming it was leaking to some degree. I saw black residue on the back of that pipe, but it was also pretty dark when I finished and didn't take a pic of it (could also just have been road grime.) Never got a code so maybe no issue. Maybe hoping I found an "issue" that was solved with the swap.

BTW, thanks again for your help on the install.
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      11-15-2012, 12:48 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
Thanks Tom. Would a gasket in that poor shape contribute to a leak / affect the dyno results?
Hard to say, but likely not. Simply replace and redyno again to see if that was the culprit.
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      11-15-2012, 02:36 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
Given the condition of the gasket, I was assuming it was leaking to some degree. I saw black residue on the back of that pipe, but it was also pretty dark when I finished and didn't take a pic of it (could also just have been road grime.) Never got a code so maybe no issue. Maybe hoping I found an "issue" that was solved with the swap.

BTW, thanks again for your help on the install.
I am excited to see people DIYing!
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      12-05-2012, 07:44 PM   #74
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Another update - dyno

The saga continues... I was able to get to the dyno again and do some runs with the Akra x-pipe. Same gas (Shell 91), same-ish temps/humidity... Looks like normal gains for hp and torque that come with the Akra. Next stop, OEM software upgrade and/or tune and another run.

Run file 3: Best run of first dyno last spring (Akra rear, no other mods)
Run file 8: Best run from follow-up confirmatory run
Run file 18: Best run from last weekend (with full Akra Evo)

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      12-05-2012, 10:06 PM   #75
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Thanks for the update. Maybe I missed it, but did you changed the spark plugs yet?
Another suggestion: dyno the car after the OEM software update, and again after installing an aftermarket tune. Do not do both things together without a dyno in between.
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      12-06-2012, 12:14 AM   #76
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Subscribed. Very interesting thread.
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      12-06-2012, 12:45 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIdriver View Post
Thanks for the update. Maybe I missed it, but did you changed the spark plugs yet?
Another suggestion: dyno the car after the OEM software update, and again after installing an aftermarket tune. Do not do both things together without a dyno in between.
I did change the plugs (dealer did) a little less than 15k ago. I have another set that I will swap probably before the next dyno run just to be sure.

The plan would be to consecutively run baseline, upgraded OEM software then a tune on the same day. Just will need the files load them between runs. Not sure if that wouldn't be enough time to allow the engine to adapt, just would be nice to do iit that way to isolate as many variables as possible.
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      12-06-2012, 07:13 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Oh boy, my '08 with typical bolt-ons goes in for an Evolve tune and before and after dyno. I hope I fare better than you. I must say, my M3 doesn't feel feel like it has 100+ more HP than my old 350Z with bolt-ons. I'm kinda worried.
I used to have. 350z and my m3 feels twice as responsive.my base was 359 with xpipe and drop in filter. I miss the z sometimes.
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      12-06-2012, 03:56 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signes View Post
I did change the plugs (dealer did) a little less than 15k ago. I have another set that I will swap probably before the next dyno run just to be sure.

The plan would be to consecutively run baseline, upgraded OEM software then a tune on the same day. Just will need the files load them between runs. Not sure if that wouldn't be enough time to allow the engine to adapt, just would be nice to do iit that way to isolate as many variables as possible.
It will adapt to the conditions (being driven hard on the dyno) and make as much power as possible. Just keep running it until it makes the same or slightly lower power. It has then adapted to make the most power possible.
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      12-07-2012, 12:16 AM   #80
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Somethings going on... those numbers are low.

Don't use Shell for a couple weeks. Use Chevron. Drive the hell out of it.

Then redyno. If power doesn't come up, logging ignition timing would be helpful to see what the car is doing.

It could be a fuel pressure sensor or something.

If numbers are not up you need to log ignition timing and see what's happening.
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      12-07-2012, 01:24 AM   #81
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Thanks Mike. Will try that as well.
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      12-07-2012, 10:16 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Somethings going on... those numbers are low.

Don't use Shell for a couple weeks. Use Chevron. Drive the hell out of it.

Then redyno. If power doesn't come up, logging ignition timing would be helpful to see what the car is doing.

It could be a fuel pressure sensor or something.

If numbers are not up you need to log ignition timing and see what's happening.
Just curious. Why stop using Shell and use Chevron instead? I mostly use Shell, because where I live, they out number Chevron 8:1
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Last edited by ortho281; 12-07-2012 at 11:16 AM.
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      12-07-2012, 10:51 AM   #83
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Just another variable to change to see if that is part of the problem.
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      12-07-2012, 11:40 AM   #84
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Quote:
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Just another variable to change to see if that is part of the problem.
I see. Hope you find the problem soon! Keep us posted.
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      12-07-2012, 01:02 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ortho281 View Post
Just curious. Why stop using Shell and use Chevron instead? I mostly use Shell, because where I live, they out number Chevron 8:1
Not sure how it is in other states, but I've personally had the worst luck with Shell gas.

Shell threw my car into limp mode a few times, and that same week, a friend of mine with a 335 that filled up with shell at a different station, also went into limp mode. Both cars never saw limp mode before this fill up. After changing gas, no further problems.

It's not a conclusive determination, but I will never use their gas again. I fill up with Chevron pretty much religiously, and if not available I use 76. I definitely miss the Sunoco 94 when I lived on the east coast!

Looking at his AFR, it looks like the car is hitting the targeted AFR's for the most part. Because of how unsmooth the graph is, it looks like this is related to ignition - which could be something wrong with a plug/coil, or a gas issue, etc..

Curious if the car has any shadow codes in there..
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      12-07-2012, 03:28 PM   #86
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Would the BT tool show any shadow codes?
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      12-07-2012, 03:34 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Not sure how it is in other states, but I've personally had the worst luck with Shell gas.

Shell threw my car into limp mode a few times, and that same week, a friend of mine with a 335 that filled up with shell at a different station, also went into limp mode. Both cars never saw limp mode before this fill up. After changing gas, no further problems.

It's not a conclusive determination, but I will never use their gas again. I fill up with Chevron pretty much religiously, and if not available I use 76. I definitely miss the Sunoco 94 when I lived on the east coast!

Looking at his AFR, it looks like the car is hitting the targeted AFR's for the most part. Because of how unsmooth the graph is, it looks like this is related to ignition - which could be something wrong with a plug/coil, or a gas issue, etc..

Curious if the car has any shadow codes in there..

Sunoco 94 has been gone for several years; now just 93
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      12-07-2012, 04:21 PM   #88
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I'm pretty new to this engine, but the dyno plots that I've seen for both stock and modified cars tend to show almost a straight line for horsepower all the way to redline or close to it. On your plots, HP seems to plateau around 7000 rpm and torque drops significantly from that point to redline (which makes sense due to the relationship of HP and TQ). I would think if the car were pulling timing or it were a fueling or ignition issue, that you'd see more of a dip or spike, rather than just a leveling off... but that's sort of just speculation on my part.

I know that's not really a solution for you, just an observation.

EDIT:

Well I went back and saw that other M3s on the same dyno exhibit the same behavior, so maybe it's due to the elevation or possibly not having enough airflow in the dyno room. Your AFRs look kind of weird in some of those pulls too. They don't dip as rich compared to the other cars on the same dyno.

Last edited by wheatpaste; 12-07-2012 at 04:35 PM.
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