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      11-07-2012, 12:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
What about when you put both in
The mix "cams and SC'r" ?
Now that sounds like a brilliant idea!! I have heard though that the standard camshafts that Schrick offers are not ideal for boost.

m33, I think you have to inquire with Schrick to build custom cams for your beast VT2-650!! DO IT!!
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      11-07-2012, 02:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
What about when you put both in
The mix "cams and SC'r" ?
You're not going to gain much at all with mild cam changes under boost.
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      11-07-2012, 02:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonFoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
What about when you put both in
The mix "cams and SC'r" ?
You're not going to gain much at all with mild cam changes under boost.
+1
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      11-07-2012, 03:23 PM   #26
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You will gain on the top end but will lose in the low to midrange. This may not be an acceptable tradeoff to people who already feel the low to midrange is weak on these cars.

The more aggressive cams increase valve overlap, which bleeds cylinder pressure. This is most noticeable at low to mid rpm when valvetrain action is slower. On the top end, this negative effect is not felt and the more aggressive cams help breathing and exhausting. Boost leverages naturally aspirated gains -- the cams that add 10 rwhp naturally aspirated might add 15 rwhp at 7.5 psi boost.

I am not sure I would do the aggressive cams on a daily driver supercharged E90M3. I would consider more aggressive cams on my turbocharged E36M3 that makes over 500 lbs rwtq at 4000 rpm since it has midrange power to spare.
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      11-07-2012, 03:53 PM   #27
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I think cams, headers, full exhaust and a good tune on an E46 M3 will get you close the E9X M3 power. Bimmerworld did a build that got 340whp...only addition was intake and CSL airbox which according to BW did not add much.

Cams for this car are not necessarily a waste, especially for those who plan to build a race motor or a dedicated track car.
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      11-07-2012, 03:57 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I think cams, headers, full exhaust and a good tune on an E46 M3 will get you close the E9X M3 power. Bimmerworld did a build that got 340whp...only addition was intake and CSL airbox which according to BW did not add much.

Cams for this car are not necessarily a waste, especially for those who plan to build a race motor or a dedicated track car.
There is a possibility that we might find out in a few months what Schrick 288/280 12.5mm lift cams can do on an S54B32 with Stepped Headers and a street friendly quiet exhaust with a side of CF Airbox......
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      11-07-2012, 04:02 PM   #29
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PG is putting custom cams in his low comp motor made for FI
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      11-07-2012, 04:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
There is a possibility that we might find out in a few months what Schrick 288/280 12.5mm lift cams can do on an S54B32 with Stepped Headers and a street friendly quiet exhaust with a side of CF Airbox......
Nice!
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      11-07-2012, 04:27 PM   #31
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Exactly! These are not bolt on mods that most can relate to or understand. Art of the science.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post

Cams for this car are not necessarily a waste, especially for those who plan to build a race motor or a dedicated track car.
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      11-07-2012, 04:51 PM   #32
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Cams are always a package deal. Very rarely will you install a set of bumpsticks and gain a ton of power or reduce ET. If I did this I would also set up the rear end for a set of 4.10 gears to reduce some of the low end loss while the extended rpm (8600+) will help make up for some of the time under gear that you lose with the 4.10s. The better gear multiplication and better midrange and top end the cams give you would be a winning combo in my book. Hmm sounds like a plan..

Dave
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      11-08-2012, 12:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
There is a possibility that we might find out in a few months what Schrick 288/280 12.5mm lift cams can do on an S54B32 with Stepped Headers and a street friendly quiet exhaust with a side of CF Airbox......
I bet I get it done before you....with a side of port/polish work, VAC stainless valves/keepers, 5 angle valve job, Supertech dual valve springs, and if my wife isn't looking a set of VAC's bored TBs.


Mike

p.s. It will be very tough to re-install the JVTs with swaintech coated Stepped SSv1 headers and catted S-Pipe in the garage... but I will make my knuckles bleed again. All for the glory of delta data!
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      11-08-2012, 01:20 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD View Post
doesnt seem like that much if 2800 around exhaust prices..
Considering its a 12 hour job, and at an average shop rate of $90 per hour, its going to be a lot more than 2800.

The custom tuning will run around 1200-1800 as well depending on which tuner the person chooses.

$2800 Cams
$1080 Labor
$1200-1800 Custom Software

TOTAL: $5080 to $5680

Given all that, I am a proponent of more aggressive cams, higher revving and updated gearing to put it all together.
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      11-08-2012, 02:56 PM   #35
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Even as a DIYer who could save the labor cost, I would put the cam, tuning, and shorter diff money towards a supercharger kit. At a minimum, I would have $4k into the cams and at a minimum, I would pay $1500 for a used diff if I could find one. A stage 1 supercharger kit would offer about three times the power gains for less than 50% more money.
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      11-08-2012, 03:47 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Even as a DIYer who could save the labor cost, I would put the cam, tuning, and shorter diff money towards a supercharger kit. At a minimum, I would have $4k into the cams and at a minimum, I would pay $1500 for a used diff if I could find one. A stage 1 supercharger kit would offer about three times the power gains for less than 50% more money.
If you plan to go to the track, FI is a no go if you ask me...unless you have VERY deep pockets that you are willing to empty into your car.
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      11-08-2012, 04:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterEm View Post
I bet I get it done before you....with a side of port/polish work, VAC stainless valves/keepers, 5 angle valve job, Supertech dual valve springs, and if my wife isn't looking a set of VAC's bored TBs.


Mike

p.s. It will be very tough to re-install the JVTs with swaintech coated Stepped SSv1 headers and catted S-Pipe in the garage... but I will make my knuckles bleed again. All for the glory of delta data!
Hey now, no need to rub it in!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Even as a DIYer who could save the labor cost, I would put the cam, tuning, and shorter diff money towards a supercharger kit. At a minimum, I would have $4k into the cams and at a minimum, I would pay $1500 for a used diff if I could find one. A stage 1 supercharger kit would offer about three times the power gains for less than 50% more money.
Definitely understandable from a hp/dollar perspective and even time, sweat, blood, and tears! But there are definitely handful of loony guys who will drop this kind of cash to have fun with a NA application...unfortunately, I am one of those with the chronic addiction of Naturally Aspirated Lust

But as others have said, doing the labor and tuning is what makes this modification very expensive. I have spoken to friends who have done some very aggressive cams on their E46 M3s and none of them notice any loss in low end power. I think that is a by-product of proper VANOS/cam tuning.

I really hope someone gives these cams a shot just so we can see what the potential is! All I know is that I'd rather buy cams then spend a handful of thousand dollars on just a muffler and fancy CF bits and pieces.
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      11-08-2012, 05:16 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
Hey now, no need to rub it in!!
When in rome my friend... ain't that the pot calling the kettle black Mister Mod crazy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
I have spoken to friends who have done some very aggressive cams on their E46 M3s and none of them notice any loss in low end power. I think that is a by-product of proper VANOS/cam tuning.
Quite a dichotomy from the folks in this thread who instilled their logic on this matter indicating that "upgraded cams on my S54B32 resulted in little gains" so therefore indicating the cams would be a waste on the S65B40. Even though the lack of VANOS control in their tunes were the real culprit... What kind of logic is that? This is not the spirit of the enthusiast community where the goal is to learn, post data, share with others, and maximize potential.

How many years did we hear that the "S54 was maxxed out" for tuning, head work, and cams? Hell...almost a decade!

Only to see a DIY guy with balls (stash1 on m3forum) to blow those rumors out of the water to the tune of an additional 50+ whp for a 288/280 cammed S54 with some polish work on the head. Evolve has tuned for cams only on the S54 with gains near 40+ whp with no loss in torque.

Do folks really think that +40whp on the S54 is inconsequential for a cam upgrade? Or are we still in the it doesn't make the "$ per hp" logic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
I really hope someone gives these cams a shot just so we can see what the potential is!
I do too! With a competent tuner I would expect results on par or greater than the delta for the S54. No offense to the boosted E9X crowd, but a 450+ whp, reliable N/A S65B40 would absolutely perfect the chassis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
All I know is that I'd rather buy cams then spend a handful of thousand dollars on just a muffler and fancy CF bits and pieces.
Ah yes. The same folks that knock the price of this N/A work ($/hp theory) can spend several large on "look at me" boat anchor wheels, a fart-can muffler, and a CSL bootlid with exposed carbon with NO tangible performance benefit and do not understand the hypocrisy in their argument.

Somebody interested in an N/A build put their big boy panties on and pull the trigger and give Evolve the reigns to tune the beast.

Flame on!
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