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      11-06-2012, 02:54 PM   #331
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Not for nothing but my kit ran me about 15-16k and I was able to hang side by side with a alpha 9 Gtr which paid 25+k for their kit and not
To mention the car costs 100k so it's not that bad ! I think it's fairly priced...
Especially when platform A is turbo charged and platform B is NA converted to FI a lot goes into the tuning aspect. I'm sure ESS and Evolve would agree to this.

I'm personally not down with shit shiesty tuners who destroy innocent people's cars ! PERIOD
For example ..... Ah fuck it not getting into it they know who they are

But it's also good to see company's offering discounts !
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      11-06-2012, 02:55 PM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
The concept of "price elasticity" probably plays the most significant role in setting pricing.

Those of you who own a business and sell a product/service obviously know this all too well.

I think the pricing for these kits is very reasonable.
We have worked to keep pricing as low as we can to date. Last I checked our current mix offers some of the best performance value for the dollar on the market. We continue to find more cost effective ways to build the parts we make in house and negotiate pricing on the parts we do not like the blowers. When we are successful at doing this we pass the savings to our customers. We know that cars get older and cheaper and we have to always find ways to deliver a very high quality product at reasonable pricing.

The E46 M3 kits for example sells now for thousands less than it did years ago, it took time but over the years we were able to lower our production costs on it and we continue to even today.
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      11-06-2012, 03:22 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
We have worked to keep pricing as low as we can to date. Last I checked our current mix offers some of the best performance value for the dollar on the market. We continue to find more cost effective ways to build the parts we make in house and negotiate pricing on the parts we do not like the blowers. When we are successful at doing this we pass the savings to our customers. We know that cars get older and cheaper and we have to always find ways to deliver a very high quality product at reasonable pricing.

The E46 M3 kits for example sells now for thousands less than it did years ago, it took time but over the years we were able to lower our production costs on it and we continue to even today.
So when is the cost coming down on the E9X platforms?
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      11-06-2012, 03:24 PM   #334
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Roman, please understand that I have a huge respect for what ESS Tuning has accomplished over the many years, especially recently with the E9X M3 Supercharger Market. There is no denying that your product in the skilled hands of many members here today, have achieved great results in both the form of acceleration time records and reliability. You can ask any of the more active M3Post and ESS Tuning clients, I often times send them PMs, emails, or write in their threads often times congratulating and sharing how impressed I am with the data and results they share.

This post of yours is a bit disappointing though. You just stated that others shouldn't "talk down about other vendors," yet you are doing the same thing. I only quickly read through this long thread, but my understanding is that, Sal@Evolve is trying to show that the Rotrex C38-91 can flow just as well as the Vortech V3Si despite many others saying it can't. My understanding is that he is just trying to share facts based off his own research and data collection on their supercharger kit. It's a simple comparison of different setup and different blower choice, maybe not necessarily an attack against you, AA, VFE, Gintani, or GPower.

Also claiming that Evolve Automotive doesn't do their own R&D or testing is purely ludicrous! Evolve Automotive is one of the very few companies and tuners that I know of that constantly post about their own R&D. They share their data logs, many photos, CAD designs, and dynos. This is consistent not just on Bimmerpost, but on all the other big BMW forums. Time and time again, they present the type of development they do in house. They also share about the companies that they out source to for different pieces of their overhaul product.

I know that you and many automotive enthusiasts speak highly of the ESS product, but seeing unethical and poor-taste posts such as this really does not help carry a proper image of ESS Tuning. If ever, it can leave a bad taste in people's mouths. I hate to say this, but I have heard of people choosing different companies because they were not impressed with how sometimes ESS Tuning would publicly present themselves. I know these are probably only a small sample size compared to your actual client based, but it does happen. Honestly, I am sure it happens to every company in any industry in one way or another. I just assume that as being the public image of a business, it is best to practice in such a way to reduce any such unfortunate situations.

From my outside perspective, I think you may also be misunderstanding what Sal@Evolve was trying to state in Post #309. I read that post several times and I think what he is trying to say is that if someone were to change how ESS Tuning designed their kit, then the efficiency can drop! Which I think you would agree upon. I personally don't see this as an attack towards you or ESS Tuning.

------

My interpretation of this post is that Sal is saying that if someone moved the placement of the air filter from ESS originally placed it to the back of the supercharger or left it open, then the efficiency would drop. Looking at it from a different prospective, Sal is stating that ESS chose a more suitable location compared to other possibilities. I think the efficiency of the kit that Sal brings up is similar to your claims about controlling heat.

The following quotes from your past posts I believe supports this:

Original Thread Link: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7323770


Original Thread Link: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7156766

------

Here, I think Sal is trying say that if someone were to replace the Garret core and OEM Porsche heat exchanger for an even cheaper and poorly made variation, then the efficiency of your kit would go down again. I don't see this as Sal talking poorly of ESS, but more so saying that their decisions to outsource their parts from Garret and OEM Porsche is a sound decision!

------

Overall, what I am trying to say is that the constant attacks that I see in this forum towards any company are really just unnecessary. People should just let the products speak for themselves. What I appreciate a lot about ESS Tuning and Evolve Automotive is that they all try to share factual information when they can. In this specific thread, Evolve Automotive posted very candid information on their own R&D and attempts at trying different blowers. I believe this was probably brought up because of the debate between different blower types. I like how there are many threads posted by respectable members displaying their great performance achievements and data logging! Everyone should let fact, research, and data logging take their own course of interpretation on the forum. No need to add snide comments, insults, or potentially false accusations.

The informative and factual types of posts that make visiting the forums enjoyable and educational. The posts that carry a negative tone of insulting other companies is really unnecessary, unethical, and in no way constructive. There will always be rumors, allegations, and misinformation, but I think the responsibility of Forum Sponsors and Vendors is to lead by positive example. This is the for sake of proper business practice and just pure positive enthusiasm for the car culture.

------

So, what about Albanian Women?
Well stated Alex, took the words out of my mouth

Why can't we all play nice
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      11-06-2012, 03:30 PM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
I know that if your cost is for example 3k you tag on 3times that which is 9k and totals up to 12k then you have costs like facility, tune labor , advertisement , future R&D & cars which in ESS's case they purchase to test on ( not fan boy'ing just laying out facts ) . Basically I say this in defense of all tuners " it's not easy running/operating a company " theirs a lot involved , I should know I run one !
Then ...... When you and the community recognize a good solid product you play with your price ... That nature of business !
Some work on volume some on fine and select clientele....

But nonetheless it's good to see solid competition as that drives the price Down
As much as I love getting great deals on things and for as cheap as possible, haha, I couldn't agree with you any more! It's not easy running a business, especially with one that requires A LOT of investment in product development.

I really think for the power and performance that ESS' kits provide, it is fairly priced. Especially the the ESS VT1-585!! It's near the price of some exhausts or wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriston View Post
So when is the cost coming down on the E9X platforms?
I could be wrong, but I think ESS Tuning has been doing some nice price cuts on all their kits! I think that for the kind of power you make with their product, it is fairly priced. Maybe when the F80 M3 comes out, we will see even more price cuts. As Roman@ESS mentioned, it took years for the E46 M3 kits to have their prices adjusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkPOTO View Post
Well stated Alex, took the words out of my mouth

Why can't we all play nice
Thanks man
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      11-06-2012, 03:42 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post

I could be wrong, but I think ESS Tuning has been doing some nice price cuts on all their kits! I think that for the kind of power you make with their product, it is fairly priced. Maybe when the F80 M3 comes out, we will see even more price cuts. As Roman@ESS mentioned, it took years for the E46 M3 kits to have their prices adjusted.
You are absolutely right.
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      11-06-2012, 04:25 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriston View Post
Since we know all SC manufacturers utilize third party parts. why are the costs of these kits so rediculously expensive. R&D is the only selling point as to why SC manufacturers are charging so much.
Because M3, compare to the prices of SC for a Mustang, a fraction of the price
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      11-06-2012, 04:51 PM   #338
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Everything is getting ridiculously expensive so the tuners are just keeping up with the times.

X-pipes 2k. Axle backs 3-4k. Wheels+Tires 7k.

Things are getting nuts, but the market is there.
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      11-06-2012, 05:44 PM   #339
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Everything is getting ridiculously expensive so the tuners are just keeping up with the times.

X-pipes 2k. Axle backs 3-4k. Wheels+Tires 7k.

Things are getting nuts, but the market is there.
I dunno man ....... Shits crazy these days !!
Men use love to get sex. Women use sex to get love. Me? I use coupons to get pizza.
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      11-06-2012, 05:48 PM   #340
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I dunno man ....... Shits crazy these days !!
Men use love to get sex. Women use sex to get love. Me? I use coupons to get pizza.


My favorite part about this whole thread is the random comic relief.
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      11-06-2012, 05:55 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HREM3 View Post
Everything is getting ridiculously expensive so the tuners are just keeping up with the times.

X-pipes 2k. Axle backs 3-4k. Wheels+Tires 7k.

Things are getting nuts, but the market is there.
The Cars themselves are going up in price dramatically.
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      11-06-2012, 05:55 PM   #342
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Quote:
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Good luck with your rebadged TTS kit Sal, you are a true pioneer
Great sales tactics!

Put the other company down in the worst way possible and then like a hypocrite complain others doing it.

Make a few Rumours up

Try and take away as much you can from the competition possible by literally making up what ever you can.

Look like an absolute idiot when your caught out contradicting yourself and avoid answering anything further.

Job done.

That ESS pattern has been going on for quite some years now and still continues today.

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      11-06-2012, 05:58 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Great sales tactics!

Put the other company down in the worst way possible and then like a hypocrite complain others doing it.

Make a few Rumours up

Try and take away as much you can from the competition possible by literally making up what ever you can.

Look like an absolutely idiot when your caught out contradicting yourself and avoid answering anything further.

Job done.

That ESS pattern has been going on for quite some years now and still continues today.
Sal, he's a designer an engineer and a sales man..
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      11-06-2012, 06:06 PM   #344
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I dunno man ....... Shits crazy these days !!
Men use love to get sex. Women use sex to get love. Me? I use coupons to get pizza.


I have to say - after reading some of your PM's to me and your sense of humour it would be good to meet up.
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      11-06-2012, 06:09 PM   #345
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Zim life lesson # 101: If someone throws Skittles at you and yells "taste the rainbow".. Run them over with your supercharged M3 and yell "Nationwide is on your side!"
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      11-06-2012, 06:21 PM   #346
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Zim life lesson # 101: If someone throws Skittles at you and yells "taste the rainbow".. Run them over with your supercharged M3 and yell "Nationwide is on your side!"
LMFAO
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      11-06-2012, 06:30 PM   #347
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I'm actually in a pissed off mood ( trying to lighten things up )reason being my drivers headlamp keeps fogging up so I finally get around to taking it to the dealer where I purchased my $95k individual build M3 only to be told the headlamp seals are fine and theirs nothing we can do !
even though I snapped a pic of the defective headlamp
[IMG][/IMG]

They see nothing wrong nor will they accept responsibility which is Fucked up !
So..... I have an answer for them as to why its fogging up ( I'm literally on my way to pick up my car ) ....
Theirs two lesbians showering in my headlamp !!!

[IMG][/IMG]
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      11-06-2012, 06:40 PM   #348
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I'm actually in a pissed off mood ( trying to lighten things up )reason being my drivers headlamp keeps fogging up so I finally get around to taking it to the dealer where I purchased my $95k individual build M3 only to be told the headlamp seals are fine and theirs nothing we can do !
even though I snapped a pic of the defective headlamp
[IMG][/IMG]

They see nothing wrong nor will they accept responsibility which is Fucked up !
So..... I have an answer for them as to why its fogging up ( I'm literally on my way to pick up my car ) ....
Theirs two lesbians showering in my headlamp !!!

[IMG][/IMG]
HAHAHAHAHA
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      11-06-2012, 07:17 PM   #349
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Quote:
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So..... I have an answer for them as to why its fogging up ( I'm literally on my way to pick up my car ) ....
Theirs two lesbians showering in my headlamp !!!


Mod of the Year IMO!!!



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      11-06-2012, 07:18 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
I'm actually in a pissed off mood ( trying to lighten things up )reason being my drivers headlamp keeps fogging up so I finally get around to taking it to the dealer where I purchased my $95k individual build M3 only to be told the headlamp seals are fine and theirs nothing we can do !
even though I snapped a pic of the defective headlamp
[IMG][/IMG]

They see nothing wrong nor will they accept responsibility which is Fucked up !
So..... I have an answer for them as to why its fogging up ( I'm literally on my way to pick up my car ) ....
Theirs two lesbians showering in my headlamp !!!

[IMG][/IMG]
....damn, now I know why your individually built M3 cost 95k...damn dealer rip-off primo lesbo headlight option. Nice!
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      11-06-2012, 07:34 PM   #351
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I actually picked it up for less but the sticker came our to that ..
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      11-06-2012, 07:48 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
I'm actually in a pissed off mood ( trying to lighten things up )reason being my drivers headlamp keeps fogging up so I finally get around to taking it to the dealer where I purchased my $95k individual build M3 only to be told the headlamp seals are fine and theirs nothing we can do !
even though I snapped a pic of the defective headlamp
[IMG][/IMG]

They see nothing wrong nor will they accept responsibility which is Fucked up !
So..... I have an answer for them as to why its fogging up ( I'm literally on my way to pick up my car ) ....
Theirs two lesbians showering in my headlamp !!!

[IMG][/IMG]
Funny you posted this.. My headlight just fogged up after a carwash and my headlight no longer works :/ No lesbians found

Last edited by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke; 11-06-2012 at 07:53 PM.
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