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      01-21-2011, 01:44 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by double_j View Post
People drive 6MT (me included) over DCT for the same reason that even poorly skilled home chefs like to cook. You might get a better end result by having somebody/something else do the work for you, but sometimes the real fun comes from learning and doing the work yourself.
That's totally fine. I love driving my friends cars that are manual transmission because I rarely do it. I'll never be able to shift like a pro, and at the same time as my daily driver I'd probably not want a 6MT. I was just poking fun at the guys who like to talk about how much extra car control they have with their clutch and shift lever. I think that fun factor is the most valid reason these days to get a 6MT. And it's a good reason.
Hey if I had a second car or a real sports car as a weekend ride, it'd undoubtedly be a GT3 which comes in nothing but a standard transmission.
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      01-21-2011, 02:01 PM   #90
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Let's face it. Aside from maybe 1 out of every 15 MT drivers on this entire forum, you guys can't properly drive a manual transmission to even give yourself an edge over a real slushbox steptronic.
DCT > 6MT in every way.
And all this talk about heel-toe. please, heel-toe shifting merely allows you to rev match (imperfectly I might add unless you're a professional driver) which DCT does a million times over with perfect execution, further allowing you to focus on more important things like braking, turn-in and exit.

Sorry, I just love throwing wood on the fire.
With that argument you can ask why are we all buying M3's when 99% of us probably can't drive them to their potential? There's enjoyment in practicing a skill and reward as you get closer to mastery.

It's the same reason I love shooting with my camera in full manual mode 100% of the time. Sure sometimes I miss the perfect shot while adjusting the settings and take more under/over exposed photos than someone who shoots in a auto/semi-auto setting, but I find pleasure in having full control over the camera and it's very rewarding as I get better/faster at it.
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      01-21-2011, 02:08 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
With that argument you can ask why are we all buying M3's when 99% of us probably can't drive them to their potential? There's enjoyment in practicing a skill and reward as you get closer to mastery.

It's the same reason I love shooting with my camera in full manual mode 100% of the time. Sure sometimes I miss the perfect shot while adjusting the settings and take more under/over exposed photos than someone who shoots in a auto/semi-auto setting, but I find pleasure in having full control over the camera and it's very rewarding as I get better/faster at it.
You make a great point. I am referring to those who keep drilling on about how a manual allows them to retain more car control when on the track. It simply does not if you cannot drive it properly.
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      01-21-2011, 02:10 PM   #92
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      01-21-2011, 02:11 PM   #93
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You make a great point. I am referring to those who keep drilling on about how a manual allows them to retain more car control when on the track. It simply does not if you cannot drive it properly.
Yea I wouldn't agree with that. I'm pretty sure anyone would be faster on and off the track with DCT compared to 6MT. I'd say it's a FACT that DCT improves performance. Personally, I find 6MT more fun and rewarding to drive, but this is purely subjective.
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      11-06-2012, 03:12 AM   #94
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Can I have some tips on fuel economy...Steptronic manual or auto drive option on 328i?
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      11-06-2012, 05:20 AM   #95
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I think this really depends on what you bought your M3 for in combination with your past experience. I have a 6MT. Here's why:

1. My M3 is not my DD.
2. My DD is an automatic
3. I have driven a manual for 30 years, so I am pretty damn good at it. Other than a first gear start from a standstill, DCT gives me no shifting advantage.
4. All dual clutch trannies still all do quirky things. There is no true manual mode in any of them. Total control over the gearbox can still only be had with a true manual.
5. I bought my M3 purely for pleasure. I have no actual need for it whatsoever, so I wanted the car that would simply be the most fun.
6. For seasoned manual drivers, there is just a supreme sense of satisfaction in firing off the perfect shift.

All said, however, if my M3 was my DD, and/or my only car and I did a lot of driving in traffic, I would get the DCT. It has enough pure performance advantages and versatility that nobody can criticize the choice.

Also, my choice of transmission depends a lot on the car. I have been on the M5 boards stating my preference for DCT in that car over the manual. I feel that there is just so much torque being fed to just the rear wheels that DCT really helps you get the power to the ground much better than a traditional clutch and shifter. You can also keep both hands on the steering wheel which I feel becomes more important when you are handling 500 lb-ft of torque vs. 295 lb-ft of torque.

In the end, the choice depends on the car, but most of all, on it's intended use.
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      11-06-2012, 07:29 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai
Hi!!

I know this has been discussed, but I was wondering if the people that are choosing the DCT can summarize the reason of their decision.
I have always been a MT person, and really get bored when I don't have a clutch, but if there are reasonable facts maybe I will have to go for the DCT. For example, the launch control feature is something I really would like to have.
I use to be a 6-speed or die kind of person; however, it is rather simple. Drive DCT and your life will be forever changed!
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      11-06-2012, 08:03 AM   #97
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      11-06-2012, 08:40 AM   #98
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Holy thread resurrection!

Great answer by LarThaL, kudos. I bought the DCT because the M3 IS my daily driver, because my perspective is "why not drive what you love all the time?". Also, after driving both, I both enjoy and am faster in the DCT.

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      11-06-2012, 09:41 AM   #99
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OP - sounds to me like you enjoy a manual (like many of us). The DCT will not replace the feel of a foot clutch. The feel of the car with DCT is different. You should go test drive one, that's the only way for you to know if its right for YOU. This car is great either way.

Like you, I love a foot clutch - nothing like it. I got the M3 with a DCT though so my wife could drive it too (I have another manual car) and I really like the DCT, but its not the same as a 6MT. Not better, not worse, just different.

So if you want a foot clutch get it. Don't get a DCT just for launch control- I think that would be a mistake for you - but I would recommend driving a DCT first just to satisfy your curiosity.
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      11-06-2012, 02:45 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K3N R3D View Post
For me personally its faster and more fuel efficient, I love the idea of shifting right there with my hands on the steering at all times, as well as some times that clutch can be a real bother i.e., bumper to bumper traffic. Plus F1 technology in a street car is totally amazing. The list goes on and on.
All the right points!
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      11-07-2012, 12:20 AM   #101
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I have two specific questions about the transmission question that I'd really appreciate some specific feedback on, but as a new member I can't create a thread to address it. This is the closest active thread I can find.

I've read this forum for a long time as a guest, and I've learned a ton and appreciate the collective knowledge and enthusiasm you all contribute. I've searched prior threads to get clarity on these two specific points, knowing the dead horse this topic can quickly become, but so far I don't see a clear and consistent answer to them, especially the first. I apologize if I've missed it, but at this point there's so much debate on the 6MT/DCT preference point that it's harder and harder to sift through.

So, here goes:

1. Will any of the DCT modes provide a forceful upshift approaching the level of, for example, an E60 M5 SMG upshift in one of the more aggressive shift modes?

I've driven the DCT transmission a few times in test drives, but I've yet to feel the car kick back like a hard SMG shift. This isn't something I would want all of the time, of course (hence the appeal of the DCT's flexibility), but there are times when I would want to feel the car come alive in that way.

2. Will the 6MT roll cleanly from a stop in 2nd gear? If so, does that help any of you with stop and go traffic?


Again, I'm not trying to debate the merits of either transmission from a philosophical point of view. I'm just looking for feedback on these two specific points. I'll take care of the rest the decision on my own, but I've got about two weeks before my order can't be changed and this is the last item I'm debating.

Thanks for the help...
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      11-07-2012, 12:35 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA5775 View Post
2. Will the 6MT roll cleanly from a stop in 2nd gear? If so, does that help any of you with stop
Yes, you can start in 2nd on the level and downhill, which I do occasionally. I expect it would be somewhat hard on the clutch to do this routinely, however.
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      11-07-2012, 02:52 AM   #103
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It can start in 2nd gear pretty easily. Also, in stop and go traffic, leaving foot off the gas in 1st gear allows the car to crawl without any risk of stalling (unless you hit brake and come to complete stop).


Quote:
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Yes, you can start in 2nd on the level and downhill, which I do occasionally. I expect it would be somewhat hard on the clutch to do this routinely, however.
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      11-07-2012, 03:31 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA5775 View Post
1. Will any of the DCT modes provide a forceful upshift approaching the level of, for example, an E60 M5 SMG upshift in one of the more aggressive shift modes?

I've driven the DCT transmission a few times in test drives, but I've yet to feel the car kick back like a hard SMG shift. This isn't something I would want all of the time, of course (hence the appeal of the DCT's flexibility), but there are times when I would want to feel the car come alive in that way.
Yes...full throttle high rev shifts in S5 will give you a "power shift" that is sufficiently forceful to chirp the rear tyres on occasion. At the other end S2 is virtually seamless.
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      11-07-2012, 03:32 AM   #105
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6MT = you do more work, car does less work
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      11-07-2012, 09:24 AM   #106
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Quote:
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1. Will any of the DCT modes provide a forceful upshift approaching the level of, for example, an E60 M5 SMG upshift in one of the more aggressive shift modes?
With tranny in S5 (or S6, for that matter) mode, the shift is has no slip - in cooler weather the tires will chirp in the 1-2 shift.

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      11-07-2012, 09:39 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
4. Total control over the gearbox can still only be had with a true manual.
5. I bought my M3 purely for pleasure. I have no actual need for it whatsoever, so I wanted the car that would simply be the most fun.
6. For seasoned manual drivers, there is just a supreme sense of satisfaction in firing off the perfect shift.
[/i][/b]
Total control, most fun, satisfaction - exactly.

Even though I daily mine, you could also say I bought mine purely for pleasure - visual, tactile and aural. I end up using it for many purposes, but there were dozens of other cheaper and more practical options I could have gone with that could have served me better as a commuting appliance. The feeling this car gives me was at the top of my list, however, and the more involved I am with the car, the greater the feeling.
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      11-07-2012, 10:59 AM   #108
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This car is superb regardless of the transmission.

I am 44 and my left leg is larger than my right from 28 years of driving a MT in traffic. Around Chicago, you can't avoid traffic anymore.

My DD has never been an automatic. Had them in the garage, but not my DD.

I enjoy everything about the DCT in my M3. For a small sports car, I would still get a MT.
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      11-07-2012, 11:51 AM   #109
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Manual vs. DCT

Another factor about the DCT is it adds ~150 lbs to the car (and, of course, complexity).
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      11-07-2012, 12:09 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
Let's face it. Aside from maybe 1 out of every 15 MT drivers on this entire forum, you guys can't properly drive a manual transmission to even give yourself an edge over a real slushbox steptronic.
DCT > 6MT in every way.
And all this talk about heel-toe. please, heel-toe shifting merely allows you to rev match (imperfectly I might add unless you're a professional driver) which DCT does a million times over with perfect execution, further allowing you to focus on more important things like braking, turn-in and exit.

Sorry, I just love throwing wood on the fire.
Well said.


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It's the same reason I love shooting with my camera in full manual mode 100% of the time. Sure sometimes I miss the perfect shot while adjusting the settings and take more under/over exposed photos than someone who shoots in a auto/semi-auto setting, but I find pleasure in having full control over the camera and it's very rewarding as I get better/faster at it.
Errr, no. In Auto/Program mode, there's no way you'll be able to control DSLR's exposure levels the way one can with manual mode; whereas, no similar analogy exists in 6MT-vs-DCT situation...
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