BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > New and Preowned M3 Pricing, Ordering, Tracking / European Delivery / Dealer Reviews
 
GT Haus
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-15-2007, 04:29 PM   #67
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
8,034
Posts

 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
+1, exactly. Sure we don't have the exact price and $60k base is an important psychological barrier. Either way $58k base or $62k base you can't really come close with another choice for the same price given performance, quality, fun, luxury, prestige, trackable, etc. And PLEASE don't go on and on about modded cars, I am talking STOCK.

Also the argument that $62k is too expensive, "so I'll just get a base (NO options) 911 Carrera S for $84k" is simply ridiculous. Very close performance (likely exceeded in many performance metrics by the E92 M3) less seating, less trunk, but indeed possibly a bit more fun/pure but for 1/3rd more with no options. Come on get real. Don't even get me going about the base 911 (non S) for $74k base it is clearly going to be significantly out performed by the E92 M3. The price of the M3 will not "too high" nor is its price to performance ratio. The price to performance ratio is exactly where the M3 will be unbeatable.

I doubt that almost all those who have this opinion and attitude are seriously in the market for either car.
911S with minor options would be more like $90k. Even if the M3 comes in at a little over $60k, that difference is hard to justify unless you really want a Porcshe. (If you really want a Porsche, you should just buy it, why even consider the M3, right?) However, a 2-year old 911S with warranty becomes a viable option since 911s lose their value during the first 2-3 years faster than M3s--mainly because they cost more. If you are not interested in buying a used car, I agree that the 911S is not exactly a reasonable alternative. Finally, this thinking applies to the US market only. I understand that the M3 and the 911S might be priced much more closer in other markets.
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2007, 06:48 PM   #68
Bennu
Colonel
Bennu's Avatar
United_States
33
Rep
2,257
Posts

 
Drives: BMW Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: West Palm Beach

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW/M235i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
+1, exactly. Sure we don't have the exact price and $60k base is an important psychological barrier. Either way $58k base or $62k base you can't really come close with another choice for the same price given performance, quality, fun, luxury, prestige, trackable, etc. And PLEASE don't go on and on about modded cars, I am talking STOCK.

Also the argument that $62k is too expensive, "so I'll just get a base (NO options) 911 Carrera S for $84k" is simply ridiculous. Very close performance (likely exceeded in many performance metrics by the E92 M3) less seating, less trunk, but indeed possibly a bit more fun/pure but for 1/3rd more with no options. Come on get real. Don't even get me going about the base 911 (non S) for $74k base it is clearly going to be significantly out performed by the E92 M3. The price of the M3 will not "too high" nor is its price to performance ratio. The price to performance ratio is exactly where the M3 will be unbeatable.

I doubt that almost all those who have this opinion and attitude are seriously in the market for either car.
Well Said! Especially the last paragraph.
__________________
------------------------------------------------
Lack of money is not the problem. It is merely a symptom of what's going on inside of you! - T Harv Eker

Appreciate 0
      08-15-2007, 07:20 PM   #69
Hans Delbruck
BMW & MB - friends in my garage
Hans Delbruck's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
1,285
Posts

 
Drives: C63, 135i, 1959 BUICK
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

for swamp!

I thought it was funny that if one couldn't afford an M3, they'd buy a more expensive car.................... ??
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 02:48 AM   #70
Pretender
Colonel
Pretender's Avatar
33
Rep
2,292
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 330i, 2007 328i
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
06 330i  [0.00]
I may consider the S5 since its price will be close to $53k.
__________________
It's a great time to be alive
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 09:53 AM   #71
NavNurs
First Lieutenant
NavNurs's Avatar
United_States
4
Rep
308
Posts

 
Drives: E92 / S2000 beater
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Judgement on the price of the M is an opinion based upon many things. Essentially, I want a car which is fun to drive. I own one which is quite fun and it will take a decent price point for me to jump into another.

"Also the argument that $62k is too expensive, "so I'll just get a base (NO options) 911 Carrera S for $84k" is simply ridiculous. Very close performance (likely exceeded in many performance metrics by the E92 M3) less seating, less trunk, but indeed possibly a bit more fun/pure but for 1/3rd more with no options. Come on get real. Don't even get me going about the base 911 (non S) for $74k base it is clearly going to be significantly out performed by the E92 M3. The price of the M3 will not "too high" nor is its price to performance ratio. The price to performance ratio is exactly where the M3 will be unbeatable."

Ridiculous, my ass.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...1&cardist=1054
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 10:28 AM   #72
Bennu
Colonel
Bennu's Avatar
United_States
33
Rep
2,257
Posts

 
Drives: BMW Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: West Palm Beach

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW/M235i  [0.00]
Errr... thats a used one. 2 years soon to be 3 years old. You can get a used M5 for that price if you wanted. Go on Porsche's website and build one without options and you will see how much it is.

Plus thats the 325hp (996) model
__________________
------------------------------------------------
Lack of money is not the problem. It is merely a symptom of what's going on inside of you! - T Harv Eker

Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 12:41 PM   #73
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
214
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Apples

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavNurs View Post

Ridiculous, my ass.
Like ^ said. Apples to apples only, new to new!

Comparing used to new is reasonable for some personally but definitely not very apples to apples.
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 01:52 PM   #74
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
28
Rep
1,942
Posts

 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Like ^ said. Apples to apples only, new to new!

Comparing used to new is reasonable for some personally but definitely not very apples to apples.
I agree with many of the posts favoring the M3. But, if you are comparing apples to apples, be sure to add at least 20 more horsepower and DI to the 997. (Oh, and don't forget to add at least 10-15 lb.ft of torque-310; which will give it more than the M and will still weigh about 250-300 lbs less.) Personally, the base 911 isn't even a consideration against the M3, but a 375-380 horse, direct injected, face-lifted 911S is.

I know, I'm being redundant, but the M won't likely be walking away from the MY2008 911S. On a BMW forum, the price of Porsche's admission may not be worth it, but there is an intangible with the 911, that makes driving involvement very entertaining. $20k more, is a personal preference.

Even if the car's yeild close to identical performance, the feedback from a 911 may be worth the price of admission. I certainly believe that it is, but Porsche's biggest downfall is the residuals (like someone posted). In the states, they fall quickly in the first few years.

If the M is priced too high and suffers a similar fate, BMW will lose some customers for that reason alone.

For me, if price were no object and residuals were meaningless, I'd buy the 911S all day long.
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 05:09 PM   #75
drft92
Giggity
drft92's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
289
Posts

 
Drives: e92m
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Like ^ said. Apples to apples only, new to new!

Comparing used to new is reasonable for some personally but definitely not very apples to apples.
+1 A 997 c2 (non s) fully loaded from the dealer breaks 100k granted cf can run you 7k all in itself. Never the less when looking at vehicles such as and not limited to the M3, RS4, CLK 63, Skyline gtr, 997 GT3/tt/GT2 etc. Price should really be the last concern. Driveability, trackability and your general needs as driver should be the catalysts of your descision. Surely not whether the base will be 55k or 62k. Most of you guys are correct though, BMW should base the new M3 at 35k. <----What could they possibly be thinking of actually trying to turn a profit. Stupid Corporation. Get real people look at the leaps and bounds the M division has done with the new 3.
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 05:30 PM   #76
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
28
Rep
1,942
Posts

 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drft92 View Post
+1 A 997 c2 (non s) fully loaded from the dealer breaks 100k granted cf can run you 7k all in itself. Never the less when looking at vehicles such as and not limited to the M3, RS4, CLK 63, Skyline gtr, 997 GT3/tt/GT2 etc. Price should really be the last concern. Driveability, trackability and your general needs as driver should be the catalysts of your descision. Surely not whether the base will be 55k or 62k. Most of you guys are correct though, BMW should base the new M3 at 35k. <----What could they possibly be thinking of actually trying to turn a profit. Stupid Corporation. Get real people look at the leaps and bounds the M division has done with the new 3.


I don't recall reading a post that suggested the M should start @ $35k. I do think that for what BMW is offering, it shoudn't be above, or much above $60k.

As far as the 997S; yes you can break $100k, but if so you're adding a lot of toys. For comparison sake, I kept the MSRP @ $92k because it's really not fair to add things like: Sport Adaptive Seats, PCCBs, Full Leather or other beautiful but overpriced options. And, it's certainly not fair to add $7k in cf. A well equipped 997S is about $92. For that price you get everything needed for an apple to apple comparo. I.E. Sport Chrono, Full Power Seats, Bose, Heated Seats, and a few other modestly priced goodies. In other words, you're not missing out on anything for performance, comfort and/or resale.

And, if someone is pricing a non S 997 over $100k in the states, they have more problems with their head than trying to decide on a car!

The median price for the 997S is what I quoted. And, being that the 997's have been out for a little bit, getting $5-7k off MSRP is not a problem. So, the $ disparity lessens.
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 05:36 PM   #77
drft92
Giggity
drft92's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
289
Posts

 
Drives: e92m
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
I agree with many of the posts favoring the M3. But, if you are comparing apples to apples, be sure to add at least 20 more horsepower and DI to the 997. (Oh, and don't forget to add at least 10-15 lb.ft of torque-310; which will give it more than the M and will still weigh about 250-300 lbs less.) Personally, the base 911 isn't even a consideration against the M3, but a 375-380 horse, direct injected, face-lifted 911S is.

I know, I'm being redundant, but the M won't likely be walking away from the MY2008 911S. On a BMW forum, the price of Porsche's admission may not be worth it, but there is an intangible with the 911, that makes driving involvement very entertaining. $20k more, is a personal preference.

Even if the car's yeild close to identical performance, the feedback from a 911 may be worth the price of admission. I certainly believe that it is, but Porsche's biggest downfall is the residuals (like someone posted). In the states, they fall quickly in the first few years.

If the M is priced too high and suffers a similar fate, BMW will lose some customers for that reason alone.

For me, if price were no object and residuals were meaningless, I'd buy the 911S all day long.
If you already own a 997 tt which does have dgi, then why would you even consider a 08 c2s ?? Thats kind of silly. Personally I love Porsche's, perticularly the 911 (993 & 997). That intangible you speak of is in the driving and racing legacy which Porsche has established over the years, the same could be said about BMW in particular the M division. In regard to risiduals a c2s would have a better risidual then an M only because it is not a specialty vehicle like an M or a GT3 for example. Finally if I'm not concerned about price and residuals why buy a c2s when I can get a TT, GT3 or soon even a GT2. Plus some of this thread stems back to you posting that if the M was over a 60k base you would not purchase it, so an 84k base on the c2s is any better. Apples to apples buddy you crack me up. Like Ive said before I love cars in general, so I have no bias on vehicle makes. Seems to me like you wanna hate the M a little, so do your thing. But when you get that new 08 911s come see me and we'll race for a G.<---gonna have to youtube that sh*t
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 06:05 PM   #78
drft92
Giggity
drft92's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
289
Posts

 
Drives: e92m
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
I don't recall reading a post that suggested the M should start @ $35k. I do think that for what BMW is offering, it shoudn't be above, or much above $60k.

As far as the 997S; yes you can break $100k, but if so you're adding a lot of toys. For comparison sake, I kept the MSRP @ $92k because it's really not fair to add things like: Sport Adaptive Seats, PCCBs, Full Leather or other beautiful but overpriced options. And, it's certainly not fair to add $7k in cf. A well equipped 997S is about $92. For that price you get everything needed for an apple to apple comparo. I.E. Sport Chrono, Full Power Seats, Bose, Heated Seats, and a few other modestly priced goodies. In other words, you're not missing out on anything for performance, comfort and/or resale.

And, if someone is pricing a non S 997 over $100k in the states, they have more problems with their head than trying to decide on a car!

The median price for the 997S is what I quoted. And, being that the 997's have been out for a little bit, getting $5-7k off MSRP is not a problem. So, the $ disparity lessens.
1) 35k was me attenpting to make sarcastic joke. 2) Your not comparing apples to apples when the base price is a diffrence of 20k. 3) You shouldn't compare the 2 cars, if I want a 911 then I should not be considering an M3 and viceversa.
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 06:14 PM   #79
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
28
Rep
1,942
Posts

 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drft92 View Post
1) 35k was me attenpting to make sarcastic joke. 2) Your not comparing apples to apples when the base price is a diffrence of 20k. 3) You shouldn't compare the 2 cars, if I want a 911 then I should not be considering an M3 and viceversa.
I know you were being sarcastic, as was I.

I am comparing apples to apples. The comparison is between two peformance cars similarly optioned (and, on paper similarly performing); as best we can.

As far as what one should consider, I disagree entirely. If the 997 had a better residual, I wouldn't consider the M3. (Please re-read my previous post) I can afford the 997S or another turbo, but I struggle between what logic and emotion tell me; lol. So, if the E92's residuals are anyway in line with the E46, I'd prefer to take much less of a bath with the E92; albiet (imo) I won't have my prefered car, but that's a choice I am willing to make. There could be worse things in life.
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2007, 01:07 AM   #80
Sick Speed
Speed
Sick Speed's Avatar
18
Rep
407
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i E92 Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parallel Universe

iTrader: (2)

If it comes in too high priced then I am going to go buy a 1982 pimped out Cadillac Brougham - scarlet red...but I am going to buy the aftermarket CSL trunk and make it fit...that will look soooooooo sweet....I think I will chip the engine too...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2007, 07:35 AM   #81
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
28
Rep
1,942
Posts

 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Speed View Post
If it comes in too high priced then I am going to go buy a 1982 pimped out Cadillac Brougham - scarlet red...but I am going to buy the aftermarket CSL trunk and make it fit...that will look soooooooo sweet....I think I will chip the engine too...

Sounds...reeeaaallll slick. But, will you keep the spoiler?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:12 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST