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      11-05-2012, 03:03 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve
You want me to compare with an article that is testing a 535 non intercooled kit running very low boost? I think you can clearly see that it is completely irrelevant and does not show any comparison of a air to water to an air to air.
That wasn't the question I asked you. I asked if you had done any type of testing just like that. I provided the link for your convenience, not your insults.

Quote:
Makes sense why I cannot actually answer it? Because there is no air to water cooling system involved in that test.
Is there a heat soak article on the 575-650 kits?
Now that we can see you misunderstood the question in the first place, the rest of this is just off topic and no need to answer.

Quote:
Sorry, there is no being wrong here. Looks like you just didn't understand my reply to the heatsoak assumption you made on the AA kit.

Why have we not done such a test? Did ESS do that test or publish it anywhere? Tell me if here is such a test.
So why are you expecting us to do it if there is not? Especially since we are releasing info at the moment. I have asked you to be patient. You don't get that part though.
Just wait, it will come.

Do you actually appreciate that me stating the above makes you look like you did not at all think about your question? You do know that I am trying to avoid conflict and now that you have forced me to answer you have put me in a situation where I can be accused of potentially indirectly attempting to make you look stupid.
Don't blame me on this matter now.

Attempted insults? I think everyone can see what it is you are trying to do.
Try harder to bully.
Come back with debates which are logical please and in context with what's being said and compared.
That means we should compare apples with apples.

And clearly point out what you think is mumbo jumbo and let's allow the members here to point out to you what it actually means.
I don't see what ESS has to do with any of this because I just asked you if you had done that type of testing. It doesn't even matter if they did it or not because it's a simple yes or no question. I suggest you ask ESS if you really want to know.

As for mumbo jumbo, yeah when you fill pages of technical jargon without getting to the point or answering the question without throwing insults, I call that a bunch of mumbo jumbo.

Quote:
You seem to have a great ability to turn every supercharger comparison thread into a spiraling disaster zone. Why is it you do this? Is your hatred of everything non ESS that severe? You cannot stand to see anything other than your preferred choice? This is how it is coming across. It does not look good and now another company is coming out you are just doing it all over again.
Sal your promise to publish the data later is all you needed to say in the very beginning. If you say you will publish it later, then why cant you say that 2000 words ago without all of the insulting mumbo jumbo? Publish it later is good enough for me and I'll definitely ask you about it later.

Quote:
I'm simply not intelligent to work out rpm's vs gear ratios. I'm just pointing out to you - 8300rpm is your actual RPM limiter. Simple stuff. Apparently so.
You want to seriously test me?
Then be ready to be tested.
I get your point about 8300 vs. 8400. But you haven't shown any miscalculation based on either number. So if you're going to give a test, you better be able to pass it yourself instead of trying to make yourself look smarter than everybody else on the forum.
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      11-05-2012, 03:16 AM   #222
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For the two clowns with Pom pom's , please don't instigate.... Guys like you are worthless tools that have nothing to add to a peaceful informative discussion...
Save your thumbs up , ohhhhh's & wows for cool pics and strippers ....
The only reason you Act the way you do is cause what's under my hood , such hypocrites.

Keep this civil please.

Sal continue Bud ...
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      11-05-2012, 04:04 AM   #223
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cheers
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      11-05-2012, 04:29 AM   #224
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B!tch im fabulous with my pom pom's

Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
For the two clowns with Pom pom's , please don't instigate.... Guys like you are worthless tools that have nothing to add to a peaceful informative discussion...
Save your thumbs up , ohhhhh's & wows for cool pics and strippers ....
The only reason you Act the way you do is cause what's under my hood , such hypocrites.

Keep this civil please.

Sal continue Bud ...

Last edited by VCP; 04-14-2014 at 04:18 PM.
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      11-05-2012, 05:20 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post


Sal continue Bud ...
Sorry, I cannot discuss anything with you as everything I say is technical jargon mumbo jumbo. Little point in continuing and I do not have the time to have silly tit for tat discussions. You have found your friends for that already. Continue with them as they have no chimed in yet to your questions.

Clearly I am not as smart as you. However the forum is smart enough to realise what you do know and what you are trying to achieve... every time you post in a supercharger thread.
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      11-05-2012, 05:21 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMperformance View Post
Sal Your kit looks amazing tons of working into it that i can see. I would love to install that kit clients cars here on the canadian west coast. Im sure the kit would love the nice cold air here but might need to put a toque on that blower to keep it spinning

This might be one reason M33 likes spitting in everyones kool-aid.

Quote AJ@ESS:
There is no charge for M33, he is participating in a test program for a new high-end version of the kit that comes with a custom crank pulley and new SC/beltdrive system in addition to uprated software. This will not be a normal update for existing 625 kits as they are already making well above rating in existing form.
Thanks.

Send me an email.
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      11-05-2012, 05:43 AM   #227
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The only reason you Act the way you do is cause what's under my hood ..
What is under your hood??
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      11-05-2012, 05:55 AM   #228
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By the way, you don't see Drew going on all fanboyish... Just because you got a free kit doesn't mean it's the greatest thing in the world.
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      11-05-2012, 09:49 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMperformance View Post
cheers
Agreed if and when it ever arises
Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMperformance View Post
B!tch im fabulous with my pom pom's
That's what I'm talking about you go on with you bad self !!
Get a yellow set to match yo Sh!t
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Sorry, I cannot discuss anything with you as everything I say is technical jargon mumbo jumbo. Little point in continuing and I do not have the time to have silly tit for tat discussions. You have found your friends for that already. Continue with them as they have no chimed in yet to your questions.

Clearly I am not as smart as you. However the forum is smart enough to realise what you do know and what you are trying to achieve... every time you post in a supercharger thread.
Sorry you feel that way , I'm not implementing that I'm smarter than anyone & I think my questions were legit but then again I'm supercharged so they are not right ???
I bet if I were a customer I would have been approached much differently
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donbona View Post
What is under your hood??
Spare tire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donbona View Post
By the way, you don't see Drew going on all fanboyish... Just because you got a free kit doesn't mean it's the greatest thing in the world.
I wish my kit was free ! What's Drew's Favorite cereal ?
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      11-05-2012, 09:54 AM   #230
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You know my car makes more midrange than a supercharged m3 but the m3 feels like a uncontrollable monster on street tires in comparison.
That's because you can't drive. Didn't even want to go against my lil old E46 and I drove 3000km just for that! (just joking btw)

I leave to go up north for the weekend and damn this thing blew up.

OP....about one more week!

Last edited by Jon@Bimmersport Automotive; 11-05-2012 at 10:14 AM.
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      11-05-2012, 11:18 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Jon@Bimmersport Automotive View Post
That's because you can't drive. Didn't even want to go against my lil old E46 and I drove 3000km just for that! (just joking btw)

I leave to go up north for the weekend and damn this thing blew up.

OP....about one more week!

Lol you have all the power at redline I wouldn't even try racing you
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      11-05-2012, 11:24 AM   #232
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Lol you have all the power at redline I wouldn't even try racing you
So we shall start at 5000rpm in 3rd gear, and when you shift that's when I will pull ! We will get down to it in March my friend.
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      11-05-2012, 11:56 AM   #233
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God I love supercharger threads
+1
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      11-05-2012, 12:12 PM   #234
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Would be a little closer if the supercharged car raced a single turbo conversion. Vishnu had times and traps that were competitive with a supercharged M3 when he took his single turbo conversion 335i to an event earlier this year.
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      11-05-2012, 12:35 PM   #235
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Quote:
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Agreed if and when it ever arises

That's what I'm talking about you go on with you bad self !!
Get a yellow set to match yo Sh!t

Sorry you feel that way , I'm not implementing that I'm smarter than anyone & I think my questions were legit but then again I'm supercharged so they are not right ???
I bet if I were a customer I would have been approached much differently

Spare tire

I wish my kit was free ! What's Drew's Favorite cereal ?

Don't be upset, it's ok for you to have a less efficient sc kit than mine
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      11-05-2012, 12:48 PM   #236
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Don't be upset, it's ok for you to have a less efficient sc kit than mine
Bro I'm far from upset .... I know deep inside you are though
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      11-05-2012, 12:53 PM   #237
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Would be a little closer if the supercharged car raced a single turbo conversion. Vishnu had times and traps that were competitive with a supercharged M3 when he took his single turbo conversion 335i to an event earlier this year.
I agree but I think the turbo would lose up top in higher gears/rpm's ( unless the turbo races a Gpower or AA car ) but would be cool to see....
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      11-05-2012, 01:03 PM   #238
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Anyone notice that the ESS kits are now VT1-550 and VT2-585 vice 535 and 575....

Jason
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      11-05-2012, 01:05 PM   #239
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Anyone notice that the ESS kits are now VT1-550 and VT2-585 vice 535 and 575....

Jason
Yep. More on this coming shortly.

Back to your regular scheduled programming...
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      11-05-2012, 01:06 PM   #240
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Bro I'm far from upset .... I know deep inside you are though
Dude, I've been running my M with the GPower for well over 2 years with no issues.... Many runs to Nurburgring and many back to back laps around it and still kept stock temps..... Stuff you can only dream of.
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      11-05-2012, 01:12 PM   #241
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Dispite the back and forth that has gone on in this thread there has been some techical info discussed and a few subjects that compare blowers to each other. The fact is that any blower from the Vortech to HKS to Rotrex to ASA can make decent TQ on the S65 if you run high enough boost. The limit of some blowers is they simply cannot make the top end power this motor was built to deliver. I have yet to see any blower other than Vortech deliver 600+ whp on the S65 motor. I have seen the argument that you somehow give up bottom end power by having a robust top end but this simply is not the case.

To compare one blower to the next you first have to start with the basics and that is close to equal boost. Because boost is measured at the manifold it is pressure seen by the motor after your loss from the time air leaves the blower to when it reaches the manifold so it is the same on every car. The second is to make sure the dyno's being compared are both on water meth or not as this can skew the power curve which is obvious to most. Comparing blowers by what the blower vendors say they do can be fun for argument sake but is really pointless as many do not tell the truth. We prefer to test them in the real world. Based on the in house testing we have done with Rotrex and the ASA in the past and now the Vortech we feel the Vortech is a clear winner. The Vortech power delivery simply cannot be matched when running equal boost levels, it is a much simpler installation as it is self lubricated and has a solid track record on reliability. This is why we now use it on all of our centrifugal kits.

As mentioned I like real world data. I have seen some offer up unbalanced comparisons of different blowers to prove a point but no one has yet to show a fair direct comparison. As the Rotrex and HKS has been mentioned I will use the most recent Active Stage 3 powered by the Rotrex C38 blower @ 10 psi VS our Vortech powered VT2-650 @ 8.5 psi. The AA car upgraded the HKS because it could not achieve the power the Rotrex could I would assume? Both cars are running water meth both on a Dynojet with SAE correction. For this comparison the Rotrex blower has a 1.5 psi advantage. This is info I found on the dyno database so I am going to assume it has been supplied by Active and the info is accurate. When you compare these two graphs I fail to see how anyone can say that a Rotrex or HKS blower makes more bottom end power or has any advantage really over the Vortech. If anyone would like to send me DRf files with boost logs from an HKS or Rotrex powered kit I would be more than happy to lay it over one of our equally boosted kits dyno's and post the graph for comparison. Also if you are going to post a dyno of any sorts for comparison please post a boost log and mention water meth if it applies to allow for a fair comparison.

Blue ESS Vortech @ 8.5 psi stock motor water / meth VS Red AA Rotrex @ 10 psi built motor water / meth.

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      11-05-2012, 01:58 PM   #242
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Here is my Dyno.... Not sure how to read it properly but I'm sure you guys do.

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