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      10-19-2012, 08:26 PM   #23
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Yes, good point. All stock, 220M 19" BMW option wheels with Michelin 245/35/19 front and 265/35/19 rear PS2 tires (the BMW star endorsed tires), approximately 10,000 miles (so diameter should be pretty close to new, no track use, no burn-outs, no LC).
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      10-20-2012, 06:06 AM   #24
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Hey, I thought I heard a ringing in my ears

I see what's happening here, you're telling the "boss" it's all my fault you had to spend $$$ on your new suspension
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Isn't that how we all get away with it??
Remember, we are a Forum here to support each other! "Honey, Donnie and James both think I would be safer on the track with a MCS Suspension".

Trust me, she's a Wonderful Wife - she puts up with ME!

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      10-20-2012, 07:36 AM   #25
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Remember, we are a Forum here to support each other! "Honey, Donnie and James both think I would be safer on the track with a MCS Suspension".

Trust me, she's a Wonderful Wife - she puts up with ME!

Chris
I don't have a problem being "thrown under the bus" by a forum member if they all end up with a suspension setup like yours lol
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      10-20-2012, 07:43 AM   #26
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VictorH

Do you use your street wheels/tires on the track?
What are your alignment specs?

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I don't have a problem being "thrown under the bus" by a forum member if they all end up with a suspension setup like yours lol
Hahaha....Don't worry

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      10-20-2012, 07:48 AM   #27
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Hahaha....Don't worry
Yeah, but I'll not be by wives/SO's!

Sorry Victor! Let's get back to discussing RS1 suspension setups...

I'm running 400/672 and 500/800 rates with RS1 dampers (thanks to James and BimmerWorld!). I'll measure and post my ride heights (from wheel centerline) later today.
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      10-20-2012, 09:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
Yes, good point. All stock, 220M 19" BMW option wheels with Michelin 245/35/19 front and 265/35/19 rear PS2 tires (the BMW star endorsed tires), approximately 10,000 miles (so diameter should be pretty close to new, no track use, no burn-outs, no LC).
Im running 19" RACs with 255/35 and 275/35 combo, so my car will ride slightly higher Im assuming.

Thanks again for posting your ride heights.
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      10-20-2012, 09:43 AM   #29
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VictorH

Do you use your street wheels/tires on the track?
What are your alignment specs?


We M3SQRD
No, have another set for the track, but I still run DOT tires (RE-11s).

Alignment specs:
Front camber -2.5 front
Rear camber -1.5 rear
Front Toe 0.015 out
Rear Toe 0.030 in

I previously ran 0.00 toe front so I'm a curious what a touch of toe out will feel like.
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      10-22-2012, 01:47 PM   #30
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A touch of toe out will give you a better turn in on the track, but will destroy front tires if driven on the street.
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      10-22-2012, 02:00 PM   #31
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A touch of toe out will give you a better turn in on the track, but will destroy front tires if driven on the street.
Actually, think of it as absolute value - amount away from zero toe. Toe out is no worse than the toe in the factory puts in the car - the difference is feel. Out will be responsive, but too much and that can become twitchy and unstable.
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      10-29-2012, 12:40 PM   #32
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Corner heights are as follows:
Driver's Front 26 1/8"
Passenger Front 26 1/8"
Driver's Rear 25 5/8"
Passenger Rear 25 3/4"

Yes, those are ground control adjustable camber plates.
Dropped the car off today, going to try your ride heights.
I have a track day on November 4th, so will see how it compares to my current ride height, which is about 3/4" lower then what you are using.
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      10-29-2012, 04:52 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
No, have another set for the track, but I still run DOT tires (RE-11s).

Alignment specs:
Front camber -2.5 front
Rear camber -1.5 rear
Front Toe 0.015 out
Rear Toe 0.030 in

I previously ran 0.00 toe front so I'm a curious what a touch of toe out will feel like.
I used to run toe out on my E46, somewhere around .03 degrees each side and really liked it. It was a small amount but made the car really turn in nicely on tighter corners. It was a bitch on the street on wavy uneven roads when combined with the camber and worn down tires. It would almost throw the car off the road if I didn't hold onto the steering wheel.

But I don't think the E90 needs any toe out to help it turn in...at least that's my unexpert opinion.
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      10-29-2012, 07:07 PM   #34
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Dropped the car off today, going to try your ride heights.
I have a track day on November 4th, so will see how it compares to my current ride height, which is about 3/4" lower then what you are using.
Wow, that's pretty low. I know it's not extreme but I wouldn't be able to run on the street here with the dips and driveways around here. Hope it works for you. I've been happy with this ride height as I still rarely rub on speed bumps or anything else if I don't go too fast.

Re the toe out and tracking. I've driving a few hundred freeway miles and the tracking on straight and level roads is still pretty good. Yes, it's a touch less "on-center" in terms of holding a straight line, but I think it's perfectly acceptable.

Road manners are really super and no regrets at all. I can hardly wait to get out on the track.
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      10-29-2012, 07:45 PM   #35
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Re the toe out and tracking. I've driving a few hundred freeway miles and the tracking on straight and level roads is still pretty good. Yes, it's a touch less "on-center" in terms of holding a straight line, but I think it's perfectly acceptable.

Road manners are really super and no regrets at all. I can hardly wait to get out on the track.
I think you won't have an issue if you have decent roads. The country roads here in TX aren't so great which is where I have to be on high alert.
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      10-30-2012, 07:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
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A touch of toe out will give you a better turn in on the track, but will destroy front tires if driven on the street.
Victor, I'm jealous of the JRZs, know you will love them. It's on my list of "nexts"!

Regarding toe in/out for street/track, it's really simple to have your cake and eat it too. Have your alignment guy mark the left front tie rod with two marks while he has the car up on the machine, one for street (mine is 1/16" in) and one for track (1/16" out). It's literally a 30 second switch when your changing the wheels. Mine is about a 2/3 revolution of the tie rod with a 13mm wrench and your all set. Simply reverse it when putting street tires back on.

And the amount of toe your talking about is minuscule really. If your talking degrees, then .03 is less than 1/32" and shouldn't give you bad tire wear whether in or out.

Good luck! Please continue to update us on the JRZs after your next track event.
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      10-30-2012, 08:12 PM   #37
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Victor, I'm jealous of the JRZs, know you will love them. It's on my list of "nexts"!

Regarding toe in/out for street/track, it's really simple to have your cake and eat it too. Have your alignment guy mark the left front tie rod with two marks while he has the car up on the machine, one for street (mine is 1/16" in) and one for track (1/16" out). It's literally a 30 second switch when your changing the wheels. Mine is about a 2/3 revolution of the tie rod with a 13mm wrench and your all set. Simply reverse it when putting street tires back on.

And the amount of toe your talking about is minuscule really. If your talking degrees, then .03 is less than 1/32" and shouldn't give you bad tire wear whether in or out.

Good luck! Please continue to update us on the JRZs after your next track event.
Can you take a pic on how you mark your tie rods? Just curious?
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      10-30-2012, 08:22 PM   #38
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I use to normally run a touch of toe out and have never had any issues with excessive tire wear, I tend to have it set to 0 now though just because I tend to commute a lot more then I use too.
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      10-30-2012, 08:46 PM   #39
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I use to normally run a touch of toe out and have never had any issues with excessive tire wear, I tend to have it set to 0 now though just because I tend to commute a lot more then I use too.
Isn't the issue with toe in/out is NOT increase tire wear but increased heat in the tire? Which MIGHT lead to more wear? For track tires which you expect to last months, I don't see this being an issue.

Could be for tires you want to last for years and thousands of miles.
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      10-30-2012, 10:09 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Regarding toe in/out for street/track, it's really simple to have your cake and eat it too. Have your alignment guy mark the left front tie rod with two marks while he has the car up on the machine, one for street (mine is 1/16" in) and one for track (1/16" out). It's literally a 30 second switch when your changing the wheels. Mine is about a 2/3 revolution of the tie rod with a 13mm wrench and your all set. Simply reverse it when putting street tires back on.
For that matter you could mark the camber plates too with a center punch for street and track settings and mark the tie rods to match. This is on my to do list next time one of my kids are town to lend me a hand (mostly sitting in the car to add driver's weight ).
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      11-02-2012, 05:47 PM   #41
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Short-term update- Playing with the clicks
I've had the JRZ system for about a month now. No issues to date. I've recently been playing with the shock adjustment, but I'm still on the street. Most of my driving is in town, some limited freeway (less than 20 miles) a couple times per week.

So, no surprise when you turn up the adjustment, the shock gets stiffer. However, what's interesting is that at low speeds, i.e. 30 mph or less the car just feels stiffer everywhere. At speeds above 40 mph particularly on bigger bumps where you think, "I need to brace myself, I'm going to feel this in my teeth," the car just absorbs the impact like it's suddenly on a lower setting and just keeps moving along.

My findings so far - 4 clicks from full-soft- ride is like EDC set on "comfort," i.e. soft
6 clicks from soft, suspension is notably stiffer particularly at low speeds, but as noted above at higher speeds seems to be more compliant. Would rate this as slightly stiffer than EDC set on sport/stiff.

The other thing I just need to experience a bit more is I think the compliance over bumps varies depending on if it's something sticking up above the road surface as opposed to below, like a pothole. I need to go over a few more really good bumps but I'll just say it now and see if I can confirm later, but on the 6 click setting at 40mph and up, the compliance, i.e. the ability to absorb an irregularity is better for potholes or depressions as opposed to things sticking above the road surface.

Will experiment with stiffer and stiffer settings every week or so until I can't stand it just to see what it's like.
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      11-02-2012, 06:28 PM   #42
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Suspension porn--gotta luv it.
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      11-02-2012, 07:32 PM   #43
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When you hit a bump or expansion joint you're compressing the damper whereas if you run over a dip or pothole the damper is extending - difference between compression and rebound damping response. Adjusting "clicks" on the damper won't significantly improve the compression response because the RS1 "primary" damping adjustment is rebound (compression changes as well but to a much smaller degree); however, the damper has a bleed valve to help absorb "compression" bumps - it's the bleed valve that's keeping you from "bracing yourself" when you think it's going to be a hard impact (i.e., good example is hitting a bump mid-corner and the damper absorbs it so you maintain grip instead of skidding across the track!).

I'm surprised you find the ride with 425/700 rates set at 4 "clicks" from soft to be similar to EDC on Comfort, and 6 "clicks" similar to Sport. On my M3 I'm running RS1's with 500/800 rates with 10 "clicks" F and 8 "clicks" R yet I find the ride to be very street friendly. On my wife's car we're running 400/672 rates with 8 "clicks" F and 7 "clicks" R and we both find it to be extremely street friendly - both in rebound and compression. Personally, I find the RS1's to have a huge range of adjustment and to be a great dual-purpose damper (much better than the Ohlins DFV dampers I'm running on my Mini). However, the problem with suspension setups is everyone has a different tolerance!

I wonder if adjusting the internal reservoir N2 pressures would improve your ride characteristics?
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      11-04-2012, 07:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
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I'm surprised you find the ride with 425/700 rates set at 4 "clicks" from soft to be similar to EDC on Comfort, and 6 "clicks" similar to Sport. On my M3 I'm running RS1's with 500/800 rates with 10 "clicks" F and 8 "clicks" R yet I find the ride to be very street friendly. On my wife's car we're running 400/672 rates with 8 "clicks" F and 7 "clicks" R and we both find it to be extremely street friendly - both in rebound and compression. Personally, I find the RS1's to have a huge range of adjustment and to be a great dual-purpose damper (much better than the Ohlins DFV dampers I'm running on my Mini). However, the problem with suspension setups is everyone has a different tolerance!

I wonder if adjusting the internal reservoir N2 pressures would improve your ride characteristics?
The difference between soft and firm on EDC is, by my approximation, perhaps a 10-15% difference. Two clicks (+) on the JRZ feels to be about the same, perhaps a bit more stiffness. In terms of what I feel on the street some of this is due to the heavier springs. Yes, it's still reasonable and "street friendly" but to me it's at 6 clicks already stiffer than stock (the combination of heavier springs and shocks at 6 clicks).
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