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      10-22-2012, 11:15 PM   #1
loveskiing
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Presidential Debates

We've now had three debates. Being that no matter who wins next month we Americans have to learn to improve our dialogue and find what we can agree on, rather than continue to listen only to one sided political entertainers that are making money by spinning things to highlight where we disagree to keep us apart.
In that light, I'm wondering if we can put aside political rancor and objectively discuss which candidate "won" (I really dislike that term) each of the three debates, and what each candidate needs to do in the next two weeks.
Finally, who do you think will win and why?
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      10-22-2012, 11:18 PM   #2
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obama wins it. romney has failed to explain him self. he flip flops. his plan is not feasible.
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      10-23-2012, 03:55 AM   #3
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We'll know four sure in a couple of weeks. Certainly, based on current polling, the overall benefit went to Romney. Of the three debates it appeared to my biased eyes that Romney took the first in a runaway, obama won the second (credit for improvement) and last night was a wash (although interesting) and a pretty good session for both.
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      10-23-2012, 04:50 AM   #4
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During the final debate, I found it amazing how Rmoney started so many phrases with "I agree with the President...". Oh and nice job with the "Fewer bayonets and horses" comment Mr. President, well done. Rmoney showed his ignorance of foreign policy, and President Obama did a great job pointing out that Rmoney has some very antiquated ideas about foreign policy.

I believe all Rmoney has for ideas are the standard talking points that he has been parroting, lower taxes, start a war, continue force-feeding the military-industrial-complex. The same set of policies that destabilized our nation, and allowed the 2008 financial collapse to occur under Bush's watch.
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      10-23-2012, 05:19 AM   #5
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Oh yeah, forgot to mention Rmoney's flip flop at the start of the debate

"But we can't kill our way out of this mess" ... smash cut to 2 minutes later ... "Well, my strategy is pretty straightforward, which is to go after the bad guys, to make sure we do our very best to interrupt them, to -- to kill them, to take them out of the picture."
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      10-23-2012, 08:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Oh yeah, forgot to mention Rmoney's flip flop at the start of the debate

"But we can't kill our way out of this mess" ... smash cut to 2 minutes later ... "Well, my strategy is pretty straightforward, which is to go after the bad guys, to make sure we do our very best to interrupt them, to -- to kill them, to take them out of the picture."
And then, as you read the entirety of the comment, common sense kicked in for the first time.

Well, my strategy is pretty straightforward, which is to go after the bad guys, to make sure we do our very best to interrupt them, to to kill them, to take them out of the picture.
But my strategy is broader than that. That's that's important, of course. But the key that we're going to have to pursue is a is a pathway to get the Muslim world to be able to reject extremism on its own.
We don't want another Iraq, we don't want another Afghanistan. That's not the right course for us. The right course for us is to make sure that we go after the the people who are leaders of these various anti-American groups and these these jihadists, but also help the Muslim world.
And how do we do that? A group of Arab scholars came together, organized by the U.N., to look at how we can help the the world reject these these terrorists. And the answer they came up with was this:
One, more economic development. We should key our foreign aid, our direct foreign investment, and that of our friends, we should coordinate it to make sure that we we push back and give them more economic development.
Number two, better education.
Number three, gender equality.
Number four, the rule of law. We have to help these nations create civil societies.
But what's been happening over the last couple of years is, as we've watched this tumult in the Middle East, this rising tide of chaos occur, you see Al Qaida rushing in, you see other jihadist groups rushing in. And and they're throughout many nations in the Middle East.
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      10-23-2012, 08:11 AM   #7
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If the debates somehow changed who you were going to vote for, then you were pretty ignorant in the first place...

From the start, each debate was more or less a joke.

What is funny about last night is that the Dems are pouncing on Romney for agreeing with a lot of the President's policies last night. So what? I tend to have a more logical approach about last night's topic. If you're a governor of a State, chances are good that you'll have less experience than the POTUS when it comes to foreign policy. That's just common sense. But the Dems are making a mockery of it. Anything to keep the attacks flying. Let's be reasonable here, or is that asking too much? I know, I know... I'm asking too much.

It was actually somewhat refreshing that Romney was more collected last night, and didn't focus on attacking the POTUS. Unfortunately, the POTUS still had to make up for being a dud in the first debate.

On topic, even though I am not too happy with either choice this time around, I think Obama will be re-elected for a second term but it all depends on voter turnout. A lot of polls are hard to call because they say they poll "likely voters." I consider myself a "likely voter" and I've never been asked or surveyed who I'd vote for. I just don't believe the hype the polls create. I think a lot of people are in the same boat. Who is polled early on before the election is a somewhat different crowd than who will actually vote. It will be interesting to see the results.

Whoever actually wins, I am hoping that they truly change the direction of the country and attempt to work together, across the aisle, to make the country better. Even the VP said, there are disappointed voters out there who thought we'd be much better off than we actually are right now...
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Last edited by Templar; 10-23-2012 at 08:20 AM.
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      10-23-2012, 01:19 PM   #8
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If the debates somehow changed who you were going to vote for, then you were pretty ignorant in the first place...
Problem with debates like that is, there are many dumb people who can be easily swayed by zingers and one liners, and they dont want to deeply analyze anything. People who outsource their own critical thinking to the media.

The media LOVES their soundbites, and so we get tons of coverage of stuff like the Binders comment, and now the bayonets and horses.

People get swayed by the sizzle rather than the steak.

Obamas own secretary of defense did in fact say that the proposed cuts would be devastating, but that gets a pass. Obama did not refute that assertion. But, that doesnt get extra airtime or sell papers, so now, what is stuck in the heads of casual observers is the idea that Romney is proposing to spend money they dont even want on stuff they cannot use like bayonets, horses, or their 21st century equivalent, which sounds wasteful and un-necessary. Not only is that a disingenous misrepresentation, but it critically skips over the fact that the alternative is not just an absence of supposedly unwanted equipment, but in fact cuts that would devastate the ability of the military to do it's job.

Sure, places like CNN do fact checking after, but much of the audience tunes out by then. I'd almost rather see them pre-tape it, do the fact checking, then when it is aired for the first time, they can pause it after big statements and provide some color commentary on the accuracy of the statements, so people dont end up basing their vote on whatever falsehood was the most soundbite-friendly and thus got the most attention in mainstream media.
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      10-23-2012, 01:30 PM   #9
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"Giants win the pennant"

I know these are probably really the only 2 choices available, but I long for another.
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      10-23-2012, 07:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
During the final debate, I found it amazing how Rmoney started so many phrases with "I agree with the President...". Oh and nice job with the "Fewer bayonets and horses" comment Mr. President, well done. Rmoney showed his ignorance of foreign policy, and President Obama did a great job pointing out that Rmoney has some very antiquated ideas about foreign policy.

I believe all Rmoney has for ideas are the standard talking points that he has been parroting, lower taxes, start a war, continue force-feeding the military-industrial-complex. The same set of policies that destabilized our nation, and allowed the 2008 financial collapse to occur under Bush's watch.
NEWS flash........ Bayonet drills and use is still taught and used by todays American armed forces. "O" isn't conected and doesn't have a clue what goes on outside of the "War room" and the photo op's in there
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      10-23-2012, 08:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mspeasl View Post
NEWS flash........ Bayonet drills and use is still taught and used by todays American armed forces. "O" isn't conected and doesn't have a clue what goes on outside of the "War room" and the photo op's in there
You didn't comprehend what the president was saying, did you? He was making the point that our military has evolved since 1917. Romney said that our Navy has the smallest number of ships since 1917. First off, he is wrong about that statement, surprise surprise. But also, what would you rather have, an assortment of 30 small attack ships from 1917, or 2 aircraft carriers and a nuclear submarine?

Some guy who happened to be in a position to know a thing or 2 about Navy readiness agrees with the president.

Richard Danzig Agrees with President Obama
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      10-23-2012, 09:23 PM   #12
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You didn't comprehend what the president was saying, did you? He was making the point that our military has evolved since 1917. Romney said that our Navy has the smallest number of ships since 1917. First off, he is wrong about that statement, surprise surprise. But also, what would you rather have, an assortment of 30 small attack ships from 1917, or 2 aircraft carriers and a nuclear submarine?

Some guy who happened to be in a position to know a thing or 2 about Navy readiness agrees with the president.

Richard Danzig Agrees with President Obama
Oh I did and I am sure most everyone else did also. But he just had to use a zinger....
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      10-23-2012, 09:38 PM   #13
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I found the debates quite...entertaining.
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      10-24-2012, 09:24 AM   #14
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NEWS flash........ Bayonet drills and use is still taught and used by todays American armed forces. "O" isn't conected and doesn't have a clue what goes on outside of the "War room" and the photo op's in there
LOL. Point missed.
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      10-24-2012, 01:04 PM   #15
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Oh I did and I am sure most everyone else did also. But he just had to use a zinger....
To make matters worse, half of his "zinger" was in fact WRONG. Any numbers of news sources all point to the irrefutable fact that as of today, there are NOT fewer bayonets than in 1916, in fact there are at least 3 times as many bayonets within all branches of the military as there were in 1916. He was correct on the horses, although that wont really matter. The soundbite itself is what gets airtime and has legs, regardless of it's relevance or accuracy.

His team is definitely calculating and shrewd, you gotta give them that, especially when it comes to playing to the great masses of ignorant, politically uninterested voters out there, whose prime source of "news" is pop-culture media. If exploiting and leveraging the ignorance of others was an olympic sport, these folks would take the gold. I believe Barry is on Jay Leno yet again tonight, and frankly, at this point, I wouldnt be surprised if he is shown in the audience of "Dancing with the Stars" before Nov 6th.
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