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      10-19-2012, 02:09 PM   #1
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Wheel Vibration Issue: Advice from Steve Dinan

I've been on a 6 month journey to eliminate wheel vibration from my 2009 M3 E92. Started at around 8500 miles and had it balanced 6 times, new tires, rims checked, alignment etc... every possible action taken to no avail. Ready to sell it out of frustration!!!

Spoke with a tech today at Dinan who happened to be with Steve Dinan himself. He confirmed that M3's and M5's are super suscpetible to vibration even with new tires and rims becuase of the engineering design targeting road feel. He confirmed also that his personal M3 experienced the same condition and the only way to fix it is this:

Find a shop that specializes in high performance cars and wheels. There is a method used by the factory to properly mount and balance that can compensate for slight tolerance variations in the wheels and tires. Dealerships and tire shops most often don't have this expertise according to Steve.

CAN ANYONE POINT ME to a shop in the San Diego area that is known for throubleshooting these issues? A top notch wheel shop or high end sport car repair shop? All due respect to "All German Auto" as I like them very much but they already had their shot at the issue and couldn't fix it.

Thanks!!
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      10-19-2012, 02:24 PM   #2
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Interesting. I have sort of the same issue. Are you talking about road force balancing?
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      10-19-2012, 02:28 PM   #3
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No roadforce balance is only part of the equation. Seems that aligning the tire on the rim is even more critical. He didn't get too specific but I would assume RF balance could be part of it and knowing exactly how to use one of them may be outside the grasp of some that own them. Point is fine tuning beyond the average tech's abilities.
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      10-19-2012, 03:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draff1 View Post
No roadforce balance is only part of the equation. Seems that aligning the tire on the rim is even more critical. He didn't get too specific but I would assume RF balance could be part of it and knowing exactly how to use one of them may be outside the grasp of some that own them. Point is fine tuning beyond the average tech's abilities.
Tires come with a dot that marks the lightest point of the tire, that should be placed opposite to the TPMS sensor. Is that what he meant?
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      10-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #5
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I am assuming you have oem stock rims on and you have already eliminated the variables: re-bablance using road force and ensuring the oem stick rims have no bent and 'true' and tires does not have defect at all.

LTBMW made a comment of 'Match-mounting' tire - see his post here.

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...heel+vibration

Maybe you can pm him and contact his shop to see if he can assist you.
http://ltmotorwerks.com/about/
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      10-19-2012, 06:47 PM   #6
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      12-21-2012, 01:11 PM   #7
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I have the same issue after mounting my ZCPs. The steering wheel vibration is funky. Its intermttent, it doest not come on at certain speeds, but rather seems to magnify any road imperfections. I was driving for a good 10 mile strip on the 405 fwy and it kept shaking my steering wheel and I though "shit, I just balanced my wheels and now I need to bring it back". But once i moved lanes it went back to normal. It happens everytime I drive it. I guess I can live with it. Car still drives pretty straight, and handles well.
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      12-21-2012, 04:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draff1 View Post
No roadforce balance is only part of the equation. Seems that aligning the tire on the rim is even more critical. He didn't get too specific but I would assume RF balance could be part of it and knowing exactly how to use one of them may be outside the grasp of some that own them. Point is fine tuning beyond the average tech's abilities.
My wheel guy has spoken to me before about mating the tire, with it's imperfections, just so to the wheel such as to minimizing weight variations in the final assembly. I would think that this approach is just part of normal procedure for any good wheel/tire guy who was up to snuff
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      12-21-2012, 04:22 PM   #9
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Interesting. I have a slight vibe in the steering ever since I switched brakes and had to use wheel spacers with my OEM 18"s. Then purchased ARC-8's with new wider tires recommended. Road Force Balanced by my local BMW dealer but I've watch and talked to my tech and he's very well trained on using the road force balancer and tire position and all that. Even measured true run out on every damn rotating assembly. Hubs, wheels, rotors, etc. All checks good and in limits. Wheels are not bent, I'm sure of it 99.99999% sure.

Only time my M3 was smooth as glass was with OEM brakes and OEM wheels. Now I wish i would have stayed stock. Not worth the money and agravation spent. How is this possible?

Thoughts?
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      12-21-2012, 05:03 PM   #10
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There is science involved in mounting tires ? I bet 99percent of tire shops in my area have no expertise in such delicate and sensitive install? Good luck finding one
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      12-21-2012, 06:31 PM   #11
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Hope you got it resolved, OP. I've lost my faith in a lot of tire shops. There's a large, independent tire shop here on Long Island that does tremendous volume in sales and service/mounting. With my old 330Ci ten years ago, I had this shop mount some Bridgestone SO3s. I didn't pay as much attention to technical details of the car back then--I was much less anal, and much more trusting. It wasn't until several months later, when I was switching over to my winter setup in my driveway, that I noticed the shop had the staggered-size Bridgestones reversed on one side. On the front, they had the correct narrower tire mounted on a rear wheel, and on the rear they had the wide rear tire mounted on a narrow front wheel. Can't say I really noticed it during those months of driving, but I didn't go to the track back then. Could have potentially been a problem in a track setting, and overall just really sloppy work.

Years later, I thought I'd give them another shot. I needed to put the stock tires back on my M5 prior to lease turn-in. I politely made the tech aware that not only were the sizes a staggered setup, but also that the tires had a correct inside and outside for mounting. He looked at me like I had insulted him and said, "You don't think I know what I'm doing?" 45 minutes later they're all done with the mounting/balancing and have the wheels back on the car. I check everything out before I leave, and see that they've reversed one of the tires, mounting the outside portion on the inside of the wheel. Just what I told them to look out for. The tech argued with me for a minute, looked at the tire more closely, and then removed it and had to remount/rebalance.
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      12-21-2012, 08:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradocs98 View Post
Hope you got it resolved, OP. I've lost my faith in a lot of tire shops. There's a large, independent tire shop here on Long Island that does tremendous volume in sales and service/mounting. With my old 330Ci ten years ago, I had this shop mount some Bridgestone SO3s. I didn't pay as much attention to technical details of the car back then--I was much less anal, and much more trusting. It wasn't until several months later, when I was switching over to my winter setup in my driveway, that I noticed the shop had the staggered-size Bridgestones reversed on one side. On the front, they had the correct narrower tire mounted on a rear wheel, and on the rear they had the wide rear tire mounted on a narrow front wheel. Can't say I really noticed it during those months of driving, but I didn't go to the track back then. Could have potentially been a problem in a track setting, and overall just really sloppy work.

Years later, I thought I'd give them another shot. I needed to put the stock tires back on my M5 prior to lease turn-in. I politely made the tech aware that not only were the sizes a staggered setup, but also that the tires had a correct inside and outside for mounting. He looked at me like I had insulted him and said, "You don't think I know what I'm doing?" 45 minutes later they're all done with the mounting/balancing and have the wheels back on the car. I check everything out before I leave, and see that they've reversed one of the tires, mounting the outside portion on the inside of the wheel. Just what I told them to look out for. The tech argued with me for a minute, looked at the tire more closely, and then removed it and had to remount/rebalance.

Damn, sounds like that tech is more of a real monkey and very uneducated. There all over. I had the same damn problem at the Ford dealer here for my explorer. Noticed they mounted my Pro-Comp's with the rotation arrow backwards. But they had no room to argue and fixed it. Why wouln't you check each tire for rotation arrows or the proper size and outside markings? Guess I was trained better than that.

Last edited by BimmerRob08; 12-21-2012 at 10:45 PM.
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      12-21-2012, 09:37 PM   #13
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ACG in SD will prolly be able to help.
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      12-22-2012, 02:04 AM   #14
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This peaks my interest. My 11 E90(17k) has wheel vibration on both my 220m summers and my 219m winters when I am in the 90 to 100mph range. I find it strange I get the exact same vibration on two completely different set of rims/tires
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      12-22-2012, 10:57 AM   #15
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Yeah, I only use my indy tire/wheel/alignment guy. Local tire shops like Discount Tires, I've long since abandoned. They damaged [repeatedly] my alloy wheels too many times for me to trust 'em again.
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      12-22-2012, 01:07 PM   #16
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I am having a similar experience. Mine was first noticeable once I breach 70mph. I start hearing a oscillating bassy hum out of the rear of the car. Once I hit 75 and higher, there is a subtle vibration that I feel. Gets worst the faster I go.

My e46 was always smooth as silk at 90-100mph, so it is frustrating that this car doesn't provide that same experience. My 09 E90 is up on warranty on 12/31, so I have an appointment on the 27th to hopefully address.

My fear is they simply come back and say, it's normal.
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      12-22-2012, 11:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Tires come with a dot that marks the lightest point of the tire, that should be placed opposite to the TPMS sensor. Is that what he meant?
This...tends to yield the best balance (meaning less weights are used).
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      12-22-2012, 11:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Tires come with a dot that marks the lightest point of the tire, that should be placed opposite to the TPMS sensor. Is that what he meant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
This...tends to yield the best balance (meaning less weights are used).
Could any of you share what this dot looks like..is it similar to the raised lettering on the tire?

I just bought a set of tires and would like to look for this mark before I get them mounted..
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      12-23-2012, 12:59 AM   #19
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It's a big dot on the sidewall. Different brands have different colors.
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      12-23-2012, 01:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
It's a big dot on the sidewall. Different brands have different colors.
Thx for the reply..I actually researched this a bit and found that a red dot indicates the tire's radial runout high point. A yellow dot indicates the tire's point of least weight, from a balance standpoint.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=17

Also found this link from TireRack basically saying these dots really no longer matter and that doing a road force balance has the ability to measure wheel runout and tire force variations under load before the tire and wheel are installed on the vehicle without using these dots as reference points.

Gotta say there is a lot of useful tech info on tireracks website, really good resource.
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      12-29-2012, 04:06 PM   #21
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My wheels vibrated from 65-80mph consistently. Went on for months. Finally removed the spacers i put on for aesthetics and the problem was solved.

Hope this helps some of you.
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      12-29-2012, 04:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriskm3 View Post
There is science involved in mounting tires ? I bet 99percent of tire shops in my area have no expertise in such delicate and sensitive install? Good luck finding one
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