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      10-15-2012, 05:48 PM   #23
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Not so sure the new M3 will really surpass the current M3. The build quality of the F30 is quite mediocre. It feels like an Asian product more than European. Unless BMW really improves the overall material and finish quality of the new 3-series, we are in for some disappointment.
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      10-15-2012, 06:37 PM   #24
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i imagined OP as a unshaven, world-weary war vet with PTSD typing this post in a dark room, while smoking a cigarette and cleaning a field-stripped Colt 1911.

how close was i?
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      10-15-2012, 08:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
i imagined OP as a unshaven, world-weary war vet with PTSD typing this post in a dark room, while smoking a cigarette and cleaning a field-stripped Colt 1911.

how close was i?
I envisioned some fresh off reading Atlas Shrugged and seeing everything around him through that lenses.

Just because the only tool you have is a hammer doesn't make every problem a nail...
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      10-15-2012, 08:32 PM   #26
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      10-15-2012, 09:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by templarklimek View Post
Sigh, the last of a dying breed:

Charge of the light Brigade,
Knights vs. gunpowder
The Alamo

The brave S65 M3. A bold move for M, a hulky V8 snorting and ready to go.. Cut down in it's prime by Orwellian Marxist command economy DIKTATES.
It knows the bell tolls for it, yet it still has a few months left to live. As Davy Crockett said "Damn you all to hell, I'm going to Texas." Our M3 says to "Eco-watermelons" Damn you all to hell I'm going to 8400 RPM'S!

As goes our choices to DECIDE what we want to drive and how much we are willing to pay. So goes our Liberty. We are becoming sheep, bleating for security. The nanny state knows best.

Good night sweet prince, you will be sorely missed.
I fear you're not too far off, my man. I saw a pretty cheesy but entertaining movie on HBO as a kid back in the early '80s starring Lee "Six-Million-Dollar Man" Majors as a former race car driver who rebels against a government that forbids anyone from owning personal transportation, i.e. the automobile. I've thought about that movie a lot recently, and how certain decisions made by politicians of our era and world are to an extent foreshadowed by that forgotten film. (Wow, nice alliteration!)

Here's a plot summary and a link:


Plot Summary for
The Last Chase (1981) More at IMDbPro

In a future United States, the only transport available to an individual is public transportation. Predicated on an assertion that "the oil has run out", an increasingly totalitarian central government has ordered all personal vehicles be impounded by law. One man, a former race car driver, yearns again for his ability to choose his own roads and destiny. He reassembles his race car hidden from confiscation, and sets out for "Free California" which has broken away from the new regime, aided by a young technically savvy teen who feels alienated from this "social" society. Agents of the new government must stop this man at any cost to destroy the symbology he represents, and the instability that such a desire for personal autonomy could mean to the society. An old Korean War veteran and his F-86 Sabre jet are called into service to chase down this dangerous man, and end his flouting of the will of the state. In the words of one of the government agents, "People going where they want to, where they want to. This could set us back to the 1980s." Written by AGC


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082642/plotsummary

And as for this thread being political--too late. Nov 6 is an incredibly important date. Ayn Rand was prescient--the takers are quickly outnumbering the producers. Much of Romney's "47%" comment was accurate, if not eloquently stated.

Otherwise, just listen to Uncle Barry, Aunt Nancy and Uncle Harry--they know what's best for you. Just take your medicine and go to bed.
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      10-15-2012, 09:18 PM   #28
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wtf is this
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      10-15-2012, 09:20 PM   #29
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LOL..this thread borders on the avante garde..where only hippies and beatnicks will understand
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      10-15-2012, 09:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3 View Post
wtf is this
Off topic politics thread pretending to be relevant to the general forum.
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      10-15-2012, 09:47 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
Can we relocate this political bull$hit elsewhere?
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      10-15-2012, 09:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yolkster View Post
LOL..this thread borders on the avante garde..where only hippies and beatnicks will understand
No, the Ayn Rand loonies in here are radicals on the other side of the political spectrum.
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      10-15-2012, 10:04 PM   #33
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Well, I think most of us love the S65. A replacement with slightly more DISplacement (e.g. more torque) would satisfy me perfectly. That being said, I'll probably plunk down a lot of coin for the new one fairly early on. I probably will not be dissapointed (assuming I can still get a manual tranny).
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      10-15-2012, 10:22 PM   #34
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I loved/enjoyed my S65 for three years. The 1M was crazy fast and I think it was more of a litmus test for the next M3 and the general direction of future M sports cars. Personally, I don't think the M3 has to have a V8 to compete within its segment. If BMW could stretch each cylinder in the I6 by about .05l to a NA 3.5l with about 365hp and make it fit inside the engine bay while shaving the weight down to at least 1Mweight or even better minus about 200lbs....this would be a car I would very interested in.
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      10-16-2012, 02:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
i imagined OP as a unshaven, world-weary war vet with PTSD typing this post in a dark room, while smoking a cigarette and cleaning a field-stripped Colt 1911.

how close was i?
haha! Pretty close!

Combat Vet who now runs a business. I cannot stand petty bureaucrat's telling me.

A. who I can hire
B. how much i can pay them
C. A huge list of do's and don'ts.

It never ends, I'm "going galt" every day now. Over time you run out of steam. It becomes "why am I feeding those who do nothing, more than I feed myself or my employees?"

"When those who produce nothing dictate to those that do, liberty is doomed"

All I want to do is work hard, mind my own business, succeed or fail based on my own merits and not have my property stolen in the name of the greater good. Naturally all levels of Govt must take thier cut as well when "helping" others.

We have more eaters of bread than makers of bread now.

But this all relates to the M3 S65 as an example of Govt pressure to change the market and buying practices of consumers thru non-market related dictates and such.

Oh BTW, I don't smoke and I carry an FN 5.7mm. But you were close! thanks for the laughs!
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      10-16-2012, 06:02 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by templarklimek View Post
But this all relates to the M3 S65 as an example of Govt pressure to change the market and buying practices of consumers thru non-market related dictates and such.
I think you are looking for political meaning where none exists. The move to retire the S65 is based on profits for BMW.

The engines in M-cars past were special; S54, S65, S63, etc. The engines in current and future M-cars (M5, X5M, 1M, and F3X M3) are not nearly as special. Because, at least in my opinion, they are just modified production-line mills.

The development cost of the past S-code engines is likely huge and then shared among a fairly small market base when compared to the number of units over which BMW can spread of cost of the 3 and 5 series engines.

Also, OP, thanks for your service. Despite which side of the political spectrum any of us are I can assure you we appreciate it!

And since this thread is already political I'll take a moment to climb upon a soap box and just say some crap about that:

The reality is both parties want what's best for the nation. If you believe the hype that one side of the other will "destroy America" then put down the koolaide and use the gray-matter between your ears for a moment. Both parties try to stir up their base and that's all fine and good, but America is bigger than either party and the Constitution and American resolve are stronger than Obama or Romney. They are both just a passing phase.
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      10-16-2012, 07:32 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
I envisioned some fresh off reading Atlas Shrugged and seeing everything around him through that lenses.

Just because the only tool you have is a hammer doesn't make every problem a nail...
I like it...haven't heard that one before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foodle View Post
Off topic politics thread pretending to be relevant to the general forum.
Yep--should be over in the off-topic section.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foodle View Post
No, the Ayn Rand loonies in here are radicals on the other side of the political spectrum.
Not really a loony (although my kids might think so). Just concerned about the direction this country has been taking over the last few years, and worried about the implications for us and future generations. The stereotype is often true--you're a liberal hippie when in college, rooting for the excitement that is Bill Clinton, and then you become more conservative when you actually hit the workforce, start paying taxes, become aware of rampant government waste on all levels, witness the abuses of overly generous public sector employee benefits, etc. And the way things are now, despite my being more conservative, Bill Clinton is looking good again (you can just see him grinning and saying, "Miss me now?").
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
I think you are looking for political meaning where none exists. The move to retire the S65 is based on profits for BMW.

The engines in M-cars past were special; S54, S65, S63, etc. The engines in current and future M-cars (M5, X5M, 1M, and F3X M3) are not nearly as special. Because, at least in my opinion, they are just modified production-line mills.

The development cost of the past S-code engines is likely huge and then shared among a fairly small market base when compared to the number of units over which BMW can spread of cost of the 3 and 5 series engines.

Also, OP, thanks for your service. Despite which side of the political spectrum any of us are I can assure you we appreciate it!

And since this thread is already political I'll take a moment to climb upon a soap box and just say some crap about that:

The reality is both parties want what's best for the nation. If you believe the hype that one side of the other will "destroy America" then put down the koolaide and use the gray-matter between your ears for a moment. Both parties try to stir up their base and that's all fine and good, but America is bigger than either party and the Constitution and American resolve are stronger than Obama or Romney. They are both just a passing phase.
Probably a valid point re. BMW looking to maximize profits by spreading development costs among a larger pool of units. I think we can all agree that BMWs are not built today the way they were in the past. Plastic has replaced metal in mechanical components, partially to save weight but also to save money. The cynical among us would suggest that BMW now designs their cars to self-destruct not far beyond the warranty period--witness the way they are built now, and the ridiculously long "scheduled maintenance" intervals. The idea being that BMW wants its customers to buy a new car every three or four years to get the "latest and greatest" tech and doo-dads.

As far as both parties wanting what's best for the nation, I don't totally agree. Again, being somewhat cynical, I think both parties want what's best for them. It's about consolidating and maintaining power, with benefits to the citizens being a somewhat secondary concern. This is true for Democrats and Republicans. I think it all started to come unravelled when politics became a career option. Our country started with businessmen, carpenters, doctors, farmers, lawyers, etc., who had full-time careers in their chosen professions, but were interested and passionate enough to serve a term in elected office while still performing their original professions and then returning to their jobs full-time. But then at some point being a politician transformed into a dedicated career, and as with any job, those involved do whatever necessary to maintain their position and advance. Soliciting campaign donations became necessary, and therefore doing political favors. Doing what's really right for all of us became secondary.

Oh, yeah--I love the S65 engine. Unfortunately, because all engines are necessarily electronic these days, I wonder if examples of the S65 will survive into the future. It's one thing to own and maintain a '60s Chevy 427 or Ford 289 race motor, because they're relatively easily worked on. I doubt that the average Joe would be able to do the same with an S65 15 or 20 years from now.
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      10-16-2012, 08:42 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradocs98 View Post
I fear you're not too far off, my man. I saw a pretty cheesy but entertaining movie on HBO as a kid back in the early '80s starring Lee "Six-Million-Dollar Man" Majors as a former race car driver who rebels against a government that forbids anyone from owning personal transportation, i.e. the automobile. I've thought about that movie a lot recently, and how certain decisions made by politicians of our era and world are to an extent foreshadowed by that forgotten film. (Wow, nice alliteration!)

Here's a plot summary and a link:


Plot Summary for
The Last Chase (1981) More at IMDbPro

In a future United States, the only transport available to an individual is public transportation. Predicated on an assertion that "the oil has run out", an increasingly totalitarian central government has ordered all personal vehicles be impounded by law. One man, a former race car driver, yearns again for his ability to choose his own roads and destiny. He reassembles his race car hidden from confiscation, and sets out for "Free California" which has broken away from the new regime, aided by a young technically savvy teen who feels alienated from this "social" society. Agents of the new government must stop this man at any cost to destroy the symbology he represents, and the instability that such a desire for personal autonomy could mean to the society. An old Korean War veteran and his F-86 Sabre jet are called into service to chase down this dangerous man, and end his flouting of the will of the state. In the words of one of the government agents, "People going where they want to, where they want to. This could set us back to the 1980s." Written by AGC


< snipped>


It does look a bit similar to the 2014 1M....
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      10-16-2012, 10:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VMcV3y View Post
It does look a bit similar to the 2014 1M....


The poster is not so accurate. The car used in the movie was a Porsche 917 CanAm car.
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      10-16-2012, 11:37 AM   #40
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Chris Harris - "M cars are not about engines, M cars are about chassis."

That is all.
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      10-16-2012, 12:10 PM   #41
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Will everyone still be complaining about the death of the V8 when 100+ HP gains are achieved with increased boost and a few bolt ons? I doubt not. The new generation will be lighter then the current M3 with HP on tap for very cheap.

I am going to bet that handling will be better as well as this generation as now the M3 has to raise the bar again due to cars like CTS-V meeting/exceeding the current M3 times on tracks.
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      10-16-2012, 01:17 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w00tw00t View Post
Super nicely stated and couldn't agree more.

I live amongst sheeple. V8 forever.
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      10-16-2012, 01:36 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weaksauce View Post
Will everyone still be complaining about the death of the V8 when 100+ HP gains are achieved with increased boost and a few bolt ons? I doubt not. The new generation will be lighter then the current M3 with HP on tap for very cheap.

I am going to bet that handling will be better as well as this generation as now the M3 has to raise the bar again due to cars like CTS-V meeting/exceeding the current M3 times on tracks.
I'm sure it will compete. BMW wouldn't screw up the "benchmark" M3 performance wise. BUT, it's not all about that. At least for me. If it was, I'd be driving a 600+ WHP GT-R right now.
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      10-16-2012, 02:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
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I'm sure it will compete. BMW wouldn't screw up the "benchmark" M3 performance wise. BUT, it's not all about that. At least for me. If it was, I'd be driving a 600+ WHP GT-R right now.
I am not saying that HP is the end all be all; however, this specific thread (and countless others just like this) mourn the loss of the V8 power plant before the next gen is even out.

I'm sure that the next gen M3/M4 even in its stock ~400 HP form will have advantages over the GT-R (i.e. subjective styling, daily driving comfort, 6MT!, fit/finish, etc...). Furthermore, the HP will most likely be plentiful/cheap and the power plant will probably be smooth as silk, in typical BMW fashion. All this is just a counterpoint to those already complaining about the demise of the V8.
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