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      10-03-2012, 12:16 PM   #45
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I think the question for forced induction is really if the car is designed from the factory for forced induction. If it is, then it should run fine in all conditions. Would I add it to a normally aspirated car? No way.
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      10-03-2012, 12:19 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I think the question for forced induction is really if the car is designed from the factory for forced induction. If it is, then it should run fine in all conditions. Would I add it to a normally aspirated car? No way.
So you wouldnt add it to your m3?
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      10-03-2012, 12:45 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tightie

I beg to differ. The extra weight was the only valid point. I tracked my car with a intercooled kit, the car ran MUCH cooler then stock and the power up top ( linear was insane)

You should keep your kit, upgrade to the stage two so you have cooling. It won't be heat soaked up top and your car will run much cooler.

(8-10 Track events under my belt with the SC. Back to back to back, no cooling of, just run race gas.)

Josh
What were the ambient temps on those 10 track days? What tracks?
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      10-03-2012, 01:20 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpilot747 View Post
So you wouldnt add it to your m3?
I would not. The M3 is a high compression motor that is already pushing its limits in terms of design and horsepower. I want to keep my car for over 100k miles of reliable driving. I don't think it will be as reliable with the added stress of forced induction.

If you want a turbocharged or supercharged car, it is much better to start with one that is designed with that from the factory. They put a lot of research and development into building the motor to accept boost as opposed to bolting on something to an otherwise stock motor.
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      10-03-2012, 02:26 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I would not. The M3 is a high compression motor that is already pushing its limits in terms of design and horsepower. I want to keep my car for over 100k miles of reliable driving. I don't think it will be as reliable with the added stress of forced induction.

If you want a turbocharged or supercharged car, it is much better to start with one that is designed with that from the factory. They put a lot of research and development into building the motor to accept boost as opposed to bolting on something to an otherwise stock motor.
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      10-03-2012, 03:18 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I would not. The M3 is a high compression motor that is already pushing its limits in terms of design and horsepower. I want to keep my car for over 100k miles of reliable driving. I don't think it will be as reliable with the added stress of forced induction.

If you want a turbocharged or supercharged car, it is much better to start with one that is designed with that from the factory. They put a lot of research and development into building the motor to accept boost as opposed to bolting on something to an otherwise stock motor.
True but it is expensive to push higher HP going the NA route. What's the highest HP e9x m3 that's NA on this forum?
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      10-03-2012, 03:23 PM   #51
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I think I can speak on this in a general sense since I've been tracking my s/c'd E46 330 for a while...3+ years now.

Vendors can say what they want, your car will be down for repairs and maintenance more often. Coil pack, spark pulgs, belts, cooling issues, driveline mounts, and anything bolted to the engine takes more of a beating and will not last as long.

You have to take the other systems of the car into consideration. Brakes and cooling MUST be addressed for track use. Its an issue running NA. Then you have to drag meth (or water/alc in my case) to the track if that applies.

It is just a massive PIA running FI at the track over the long term. I would not consider FI for my E90 M3 if I were to take it to the track. I'll bet that no FI system on an E9X M3 will last very long in the Texas summer heat because stock NA M3s can't run flat out for more 20-25 minutes.
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      10-03-2012, 04:00 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpilot747 View Post
True but it is expensive to push higher HP going the NA route. What's the highest HP e9x m3 that's NA on this forum?
Any time you modify your car for high power, you compromise on other things such as reliability and it'll cost you money. It doesn't matter what you have. If you must have that extra power then you have to pay up.

I'd suggest saving your money and getting another car that has the power you want or get a tuner friendly car such as an GT-R or Evo where you can add power with ease since it is factory boosted.
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      10-03-2012, 04:06 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
I think I can speak on this in a general sense since I've been tracking my s/c'd E46 330 for a while...3+ years now.

Vendors can say what they want, your car will be down for repairs and maintenance more often. Coil pack, spark pulgs, belts, cooling issues, driveline mounts, and anything bolted to the engine takes more of a beating and will not last as long.

You have to take the other systems of the car into consideration. Brakes and cooling MUST be addressed for track use. Its an issue running NA. Then you have to drag meth (or water/alc in my case) to the track if that applies.

It is just a massive PIA running FI at the track over the long term. I would not consider FI for my E90 M3 if I were to take it to the track. I'll bet that no FI system on an E9X M3 will last very long in the Texas summer heat because stock NA M3s can't run flat out for more 20-25 minutes.


Company's that create or sell these products will always have good results. DIY masters will also report never having an issue on track. That's because they know what to look for and address "band aids" before it ruins there track day.

The average gear head wants to just jump in their car regardless if its been sitting for a few weeks or few days and just DRIVE.

OP take a closer look at professional racing. The only 2 choices are NA or Turbo. No one races (and never has) a centrifugal blower or even a roots type and wins consistently.

You can listen to the ones selling you something. Or the average guy who was a customer and speaks from experience. I had issues with heat soak and belt slip and cooling leaks on my blown S52 e36 M3.
All that power and torque being generated by the blower (plus heat) and your snapping the throttle on/off on the track and the only thing holding all this released energy is a sc belt. It's a very harsh situation for the engine. A turbo motor can release this energy with much less stress on the motor.

Personally I love spending time on track and will likely never go SC.

A twin turbo S65? That may bring me back to the dark side.
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      10-03-2012, 04:14 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpilot747
True but it is expensive to push higher HP going the NA route. What's the highest HP e9x m3 that's NA on this forum?
I believe some where around 410whp NA with out meth on 91.

Search for Mike Benvo.

Btw that's plenty of power on track. No one likes those guys that blast ahead on the straights and then pussy-foot their "high hp" car through the corners. They just end up slowing everyone down.
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      10-03-2012, 05:00 PM   #55
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[quote=radiantm3;12776862

I figure I'd rather drop the 100 lbs of weight that the supercharger puts on the front of the car at the track.[/QUOTE]

This kit adds 100 lbs to the front of the car?
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      10-03-2012, 06:18 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96LTWM3 View Post
I believe some where around 410whp NA with out meth on 91.

Search for Mike Benvo.

Btw that's plenty of power on track. No one likes those guys that blast ahead on the straights and then pussy-foot their "high hp" car through the corners. They just end up slowing everyone down.
Yea I'm not looking for crazy power anyways. Just wanted to know why race teams don't go turbo when it's allowed. The m3 gt in the ALMS series makes around 400 WHP with air restrictors due to the rules so clearly you don't need big power to go fast. But of course they go super fast on track because they have crazy aerodynamics and tech on those cars LOL Don't need to go SC on the e92 m3 for tracking IMO 400 WHP on NA e92 m3 is more than enough
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      10-03-2012, 06:26 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
VAC has had some good experience: http://www.vacmotorsports.com/blog/tag/vf-engineering/

Seems the only real downside on supercharging a E9X is the cost. Not only for the supercharger but the big brake kit that will be a must with the increased power. And, then the suspension upgrade of course

SLIPPERY SLOPE WARNING
They are selling the kit. Of course they will have nothing but praise for it.
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      10-03-2012, 07:51 PM   #58
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i have gone na to fi before, ultimately i came to the conclusion that if i want more performance out of my car i should shop for another car that will satisfy my needs. it seems the upgrade path never ends. intercooler, oil cooler, meth injection, race gas, cooler plugs, so on so forth. NA is better for me.
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      10-03-2012, 08:04 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuespeedgti View Post
i have gone na to fi before, ultimately i came to the conclusion that if i want more performance out of my car i should shop for another car that will satisfy my needs. it seems the upgrade path never ends. intercooler, oil cooler, meth injection, race gas, cooler plugs, so on so forth. NA is better for me.
Not a lot of people will need more performance than a 400 WHP e92 m3 on track. Doubt anyone other than professionals can take a NA 400 WHP m3 to the limits on the track anyways lol
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      10-04-2012, 04:55 AM   #60
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I'm planning my first track day this month with ESS 600 and will be
interesting to see how it goes with the high AZ temps. If heat is
a problem I'll add the M24 oil cooler. I love having the extra power
of the SC and added nimbleness, it would be hard for me to go back
as the SC really transformed the car. While unnecessary
and perhaps less optimal for the track the SC has really
increased my enjoyment.

This summer I experienced heat soak limp mode within 10min of driving the new
M5 (F10) hard at M school on 95F humid summer day, hope the new M3 turbo's
are better in that regard.

Cheers,

Axis
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      10-04-2012, 02:40 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMagi
I'm planning my first track day this month with ESS 600 and will be
interesting to see how it goes with the high AZ temps. If heat is
a problem I'll add the M24 oil cooler. I love having the extra power
of the SC and added nimbleness, it would be hard for me to go back
as the SC really transformed the car. While unnecessary
and perhaps less optimal for the track the SC has really
increased my enjoyment.

This summer I experienced heat soak limp mode within 10min of driving the new
M5 (F10) hard at M school on 95F humid summer day, hope the new M3 turbo's
are better in that regard.

Cheers,

Axis
That's not the first time I have heard of the F10 M5 going limp in hot conditions. Stock for that matter!

I think I know how your track days will go even after the added cooling measures, but I think the forum could find it useful to know how these setups perform in conditions as brutal as AZ.

Keep us updated!
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      10-04-2012, 09:46 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuespeedgti View Post
i have gone na to fi before, ultimately i came to the conclusion that if i want more performance out of my car i should shop for another car that will satisfy my needs. it seems the upgrade path never ends. intercooler, oil cooler, meth injection, race gas, cooler plugs, so on so forth. NA is better for me.
Wisdom in those words (I have concluded the same...)
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      10-04-2012, 09:52 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
They are selling the kit. Of course they will have nothing but praise for it.
I posted that with tongue in cheek, except the bit about the costs. As posted earlier, best to stick with a power train as close to stock as possible IMHO. Event chipping a turbo car is asking for expensive trouble in the long run at the track.
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      10-04-2012, 10:02 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpilot747 View Post
Just wanted to know why race teams don't go turbo when it's allowed. The m3 gt in the ALMS series makes around 400 WHP with air restrictors due to the rules so clearly you don't need big power to go fast. But of course they go super fast on track because they have crazy aerodynamics and tech on those cars
I'm not aware of a racing series where teams don't use FI if the rules allow it.
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Last edited by sleepless; 10-04-2012 at 10:07 PM.
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      10-04-2012, 10:17 PM   #65
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Many great replies.

I think that 90% of SC owner don't track their car "REGULARLY". I also think that the SC adds tremendous amounts of fun to the car, and increases daily drivability (added power and torque).

Unless you think you live on Mars, it would be hard to ingore the fact that SCing the E9x will shorten the lifespan of the engine. However, that being said, if you think about your daily commute, most of us are on WOT at most 5% of our drive. So, unless you track your car all the time, I think the fatigue factor is a very small issue.

I'm itching like crazy to feel the power of a SC E9x. Perhaps its for the good that I haven't experienced this yet, or I would be hooked.
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      10-04-2012, 10:23 PM   #66
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Also, if Dinan dropped their price on the stroker kit to ~$15,000. I would be all over that in a heartbeat.
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