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      09-23-2012, 12:07 AM   #89
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Ran at VIR with a Boss on slicks. He had adjusted the suspension at a professional shop, I'm assuming the Boss comes with adjustable coil overs stock.

So he had a little more power, a bit more grip and probably lower CG on stiffer suspension. Aside from the difference in lines (his was better no doubt) I could tell my car would lose ground with every corner. I just could not keep up, stock M3 with stock suspension on 265/285 tires. And I was outbraking him...

Maybe if you do a suspension on the M3, plus bolt-on mods and slicks you will run similar times. But don't kid yourselves guys, 9/10 you pass the driver not the car. I passed a gaggle of faster cars, Vettes and Porsches and whatnot, but in each case I was simply driving better than them, or having more confidence which is huge for an amateur on a track.


And I have to say, it didn't bother me in the slightest. I had an incredible time, didn't break anything and went home in the same gorgeous car I'd come in.


(All else being equal, he would have still been faster than me, he had no fear and was jumping the big curbs in the climbing esses, which is asking for trouble IMO and I would simply not do in my DD.)
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      09-23-2012, 02:07 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by krnnerdboy
Boss parts are cheaper, and I have yet to see a boss motor blow on the forums? You can order a boss crate motor from the dealer for 10k and receive a significant amount back with core exchange for that price you can goto the dealer and get your m3's throttle actuators fixed Did I mention the stock block/internals are capable of holding 1k whp with just a blower? And those aren't just dyno queens. To be honest, the perfect m3 would come with a boss 302 motor. Oh yeah the stock valve train is rated for 9k rpm redline and its the exact motor used in the grand am series cars. All BMW can say is there motors are derived from racing, and the boss has an actual race car motor

I'm all for the m3 but I hate the misinformation.
As much as I love the new coyote engine, they arent perfect, theyve been having cylinder 8 failure.
Difference is, its a ford and its gonna cost a fraction of the price opposed to fixing a broken s65.
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      09-23-2012, 07:16 AM   #91
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Ran at VIR with a Boss on slicks. He had adjusted the suspension at a professional shop, I'm assuming the Boss comes with adjustable coil overs stock.

So he had a little more power, a bit more grip and probably lower CG on stiffer suspension. Aside from the difference in lines (his was better no doubt) I could tell my car would lose ground with every corner. I just could not keep up, stock M3 with stock suspension on 265/285 tires. And I was outbraking him...

Maybe if you do a suspension on the M3, plus bolt-on mods and slicks you will run similar times. But don't kid yourselves guys, 9/10 you pass the driver not the car. I passed a gaggle of faster cars, Vettes and Porsches and whatnot, but in each case I was simply driving better than them, or having more confidence which is huge for an amateur on a track.


And I have to say, it didn't bother me in the slightest. I had an incredible time, didn't break anything and went home in the same gorgeous car I'd come in.


(All else being equal, he would have still been faster than me, he had no fear and was jumping the big curbs in the climbing esses, which is asking for trouble IMO and I would simply not do in my DD.)
What did this Boss look like? Any idea what times he was running? It was a few months back right? Who was the track photographer? I'm curious.
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      09-23-2012, 07:45 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Port Canaveral M3 driver View Post
Trade your M3 for a newer M3 with warranty and ask the wife & kids if they would like to go live with their relatives?
+ 1 I agree with that.

on a more serious note though I think that ford makes a good product most of the time.

The solid rear axle is better for drag racing. The terminator cobra had an IRS and car was sloppy with tons of power, in fact alot of people converted it to a solid rear axle.

but your comparing 2 different style cars and thats the problem.

I just sold my z06. it was faster than the m3 is going to be. while the interior was comfortable it lacked the luxury that the M3 is going to give.

I feel like any car you buy is a give and take relationship. you give something up to gain something else.
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      09-26-2012, 02:50 PM   #93
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RUST Warranty:

BMW M3: 12 years/unlimited miles

Mustang GT: 5 years/unlimited miles

Mustang BOSS 302: 5 years/unlimited miles

That's good ole' All-American planned obsolescence for ya. Ditch your Ford after 5 years if you are smart.
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      09-26-2012, 05:25 PM   #94
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Is that all you can talk about? rust warranty? LOL!
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      09-26-2012, 06:50 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by armyav8tor View Post
What did this Boss look like? Any idea what times he was running? It was a few months back right? Who was the track photographer? I'm curious.
This was the August 27/28 event, and I'm not sure what times he was running. Just guessing based on my laps, well under 2:20, perhaps around 2:15. The color was orange with black decals.

I'm new to the lap time recording thing, I'll do better next time out of curiosity (maybe record the number on his data tag).
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      09-26-2012, 09:15 PM   #96
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Is that all you can talk about? rust warranty? LOL!
look underneath both cars. One has plastic undertrays covering up all the high quality metals, and improving aerodynamics. The other is just completely exposed, with low quality metals galore. Planned obsolecsence is a term you need to read up on.
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      09-26-2012, 09:58 PM   #97
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look underneath both cars.
Dude, just how much time do you spend looking underneath the car??? Are you the wax & polish kind or the driving kind? I mean, my last worry when that Boss blew my doors off was his undertray.

When Hyunday offers a 10 year power train warranty I wouldn't necessarily brag about the warranty offered by BMW. What's the logical conclusion, that BMW wants you to keep the body for 12 years, but they expect the engine to blow up in 4?
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      09-27-2012, 06:58 AM   #98
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a plus is the boss302 and gt500 seem to hold up very well when hitting trees...

my boy and his father (own a towing company) spend a decent amount of their time peeling them off of trees on the back roads by our houses...
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      09-27-2012, 07:05 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Dude, just how much time do you spend looking underneath the car??? Are you the wax & polish kind or the driving kind? I mean, my last worry when that Boss blew my doors off was his undertray.

When Hyunday offers a 10 year power train warranty I wouldn't necessarily brag about the warranty offered by BMW. What's the logical conclusion, that BMW wants you to keep the body for 12 years, but they expect the engine to blow up in 4?
If you live down south then I can understand this logic. However in states that have snowfall, all that salt after just one season, will rust up all the metals in your stang. You will see it, when you take your car in for service, and they lift it up. If ford wants to sell a mustang for 36K (loaded GT), then just swap out the engine, and sell it for 47 (loaded Boss), and even 80K (GT500) respectively, then you have to plate those metals, or even better, cover them up. Even a honda civic was better thought out during it's design.



VS

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      09-27-2012, 10:16 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
If you live down south then I can understand this logic. However in states that have snowfall, all that salt after just one season, will rust up all the metals in your stang. You will see it, when you take your car in for service, and they lift it up. If ford wants to sell a mustang for 36K (loaded GT), then just swap out the engine, and sell it for 47 (loaded Boss), and even 80K (GT500) respectively, then you have to plate those metals, or even better, cover them up...

This is incorrect. There isn't a manufacturer selling cars in the U.S. that has rust problems. And by rust problems, I mean rust that will cause the car to have any actual problems, even here in the northeast.

Unscrupulous dealers still sell undercoating to ignorant customers, but any automotive authority (even Consumer Reports, ferchrissake) says don't worry about rust.

Look, I'm all for an elegant undercarriage, but it just ain't needed.

Bruce
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      09-27-2012, 11:24 AM   #101
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This was the August 27/28 event, and I'm not sure what times he was running. Just guessing based on my laps, well under 2:20, perhaps around 2:15. The color was orange with black decals.

I'm new to the lap time recording thing, I'll do better next time out of curiosity (maybe record the number on his data tag).
Ok, I was just wondering if it was the same Boss that was running in my group since we were there at around the same time frame. You went with Trackdaze and I went with Tarheel BMWCCA. The one in my group was a blue one with white stripe.

http://store.fandsenterprises.com/in...0#image=476286
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      09-27-2012, 09:20 PM   #102
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Ok, I was just wondering if it was the same Boss that was running in my group since we were there at around the same time frame. You went with Trackdaze and I went with Tarheel BMWCCA. The one in my group was a blue one with white stripe.

http://store.fandsenterprises.com/in...0#image=476286
Was "yours" running similar times as you?
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      09-28-2012, 01:21 AM   #103
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Here is a co boss write up. Compared to c63 and m3

http://www.speedsportlife.com/2011/0...tang-boss-302/
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      09-28-2012, 06:54 AM   #104
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Was "yours" running similar times as you?
Found a video of them from the weekend. I didn't time his laps in this video but when we did cross paths, he was much slower.

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      09-28-2012, 11:22 AM   #105
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Here is a co boss write up. Compared to c63 and m3

http://www.speedsportlife.com/2011/0...tang-boss-302/
The Boss is Boss.
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      09-28-2012, 07:41 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Ran at VIR with a Boss on slicks. He had adjusted the suspension at a professional shop, I'm assuming the Boss comes with adjustable coil overs stock.

So he had a little more power, a bit more grip and probably lower CG on stiffer suspension. Aside from the difference in lines (his was better no doubt) I could tell my car would lose ground with every corner. I just could not keep up, stock M3 with stock suspension on 265/285 tires. And I was outbraking him...

Maybe if you do a suspension on the M3, plus bolt-on mods and slicks you will run similar times. But don't kid yourselves guys, 9/10 you pass the driver not the car. I passed a gaggle of faster cars, Vettes and Porsches and whatnot, but in each case I was simply driving better than them, or having more confidence which is huge for an amateur on a track.


And I have to say, it didn't bother me in the slightest. I had an incredible time, didn't break anything and went home in the same gorgeous car I'd come in.


(All else being equal, he would have still been faster than me, he had no fear and was jumping the big curbs in the climbing esses, which is asking for trouble IMO and I would simply not do in my DD.)
I always thought it should be faster than M3, but after two events with local Mustang dealer and multiple events with mostly US domestic cars, I have yet to see a Boss that would pass me in normal conditions (almost stock M3 with DCT). I'll try to post up a video of me following an expert-student level driver (according to his instructor) in a Boss on R-comps (AD08 for me - so inferior tire). I could gain on him mostly on turn exists - seemed like he was struggling to put the power down while still cornering - and a bit on entrances because of his earlier and more gradual brake application (probably to minimize weight transfer or just not trusting brakes). Also, on the long straight I would shoot out on the turn faster, he would then gain speed a bit quicker, but not enough to pull away significantly.
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      09-28-2012, 11:03 PM   #107
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I always thought it should be faster than M3, but after two events with local Mustang dealer and multiple events with mostly US domestic cars, I have yet to see a Boss that would pass me in normal conditions (almost stock M3 with DCT). I'll try to post up a video of me following an expert-student level driver (according to his instructor) in a Boss on R-comps (AD08 for me - so inferior tire). I could gain on him mostly on turn exists - seemed like he was struggling to put the power down while still cornering - and a bit on entrances because of his earlier and more gradual brake application (probably to minimize weight transfer or just not trusting brakes). Also, on the long straight I would shoot out on the turn faster, he would then gain speed a bit quicker, but not enough to pull away significantly.
Well like I said, he was driving better than me, had stickier tires and was sitting lower. When only a few seconds separates the full potential of two cars, you are in fact comparing the drivers.

There is a wide disparity in each run group at all the track events I've been to. Slow guys in fast cars and fast guys in slow cars. Then there are the fast guys in fast cars.
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      09-29-2012, 01:43 AM   #108
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Sounds like a few people are comparing drivers not cars. If you are passing a car in a track it doesn't mean the car isn't capable
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      09-29-2012, 02:02 AM   #109
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Sounds like a few people are comparing drivers not cars. If you are passing a car in a track it doesn't mean the car isn't capable
+1
Every magazine that had professional drivers drive both cars got better times in the boss.
Same driver, different car, thats the best way to compare them.
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      09-29-2012, 03:45 AM   #110
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Here is a co boss write up. Compared to c63 and m3

http://www.speedsportlife.com/2011/0...tang-boss-302/
^^^Fantastic article!^^^

Definitely a good read. Really changed my perspective on how american cars are on the track. I was shocked since the 302 mustang has a solid rear axle, not an IRS.

Btw, does anybody know how does the 2013 boss 302 fair?
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