BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-09-2012, 11:17 AM   #1
Caspita
Turbo Guru
 
Drives: 2011.99 E92 ///M
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: So. Fla

Posts: 246
iTrader: (0)

Track Pad + Rotor Gone After 1 Track Day

So I posted up earlier in the week about properly embedding my pagid pads and was able to do about nine 80-15 consistent stops and then nothing but highway driving to cool them down a bit. On my first session I could tell the pads were still breaking in, but they started to feel great. Sessions 2-4 felt amazing and it seemed like all was going well. Last session of the day 5 laps in, my brakes started feeling a bit faded so I took it easy, next thing I know I get an error message from the car telling me pad wear is at a minimum...so I pull off the track. After cooling down I pull into the garage and realize I have absolutely no pad left on my passenger front, the cross drilled holes are all filled in, and it seems like some metal to metal rubbing definitely occurred from the backing plates.

The track was Homestead, and my cooling down consisted of easily 10+ minutes of driving with no braking. Pads and brake fluid was installed by a professional and not myself. After reading nothing but good things about the longevity of these pads I am curious to know how it is possible that I absolutely obliterated a pair of front pads after one track day? Any input is of course much appreciated.
__________________
Caspita is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2012, 02:00 PM   #2
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,677
iTrader: (0)

I have used the RS19's on stock brakes and experienced great wear from the pads on 2 tracks that are considered quite hard on brakes and would have easily got 5-6 days out of the front pads..Even with a good race pad & stock brakes you still have to conscious of overuse and getting the brakes too hot which will result in high wear rates.Maybe you should be looking at your braking technique.
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2012, 02:42 PM   #3
VictorH
Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC

Posts: 594
iTrader: (1)

Agree something is not right. I don't want to blame the driver, maybe you have a stuck caliper or something but you should have noticed a decline in brake function. What did the driver's side look like? Keep in mind that endurance racers are going 24 hours on one or sometimes two sets of pads (the Pagid is a well known endurance racing pad), so to wear a front set out in just a few sessions is highly unusual.

I'm just back from Road Atlanta and I got repeated brake fade for the very first time (I have RS-19s, ducted/vented brakes on stock rotors and calipers) and yet, the pad wear on my fronts I'd say is 20% or so (but I only did one day's worth of driving due to a flat and a DE schedule adjusted for club racing).

Last edited by VictorH; 09-09-2012 at 03:03 PM.
VictorH is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2012, 03:20 PM   #4
askjeeves
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 350z/e92 m3
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Miami, FL

Posts: 477
iTrader: (1)

some additional information i think is relevant but omitted by the OP. only pads that were obliterated were the front passenger side. Others were still good. I'd estimate approx use of 25% of other pads. I'd think this negates bad braking technique being the cause (but i'm no expert).
__________________
2011 e92 ///m3 zcp - jzb/fr
ED 6/29/10
askjeeves is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2012, 05:47 PM   #5
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,677
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by askjeeves View Post
some additional information i think is relevant but omitted by the OP. only pads that were obliterated were the front passenger side. Others were still good. I'd estimate approx use of 25% of other pads. I'd think this negates bad braking technique being the cause (but i'm no expert).
Was he running with his MDM on?.This will put a lot of extra heat into the system and cause uneven pad wear if he is aggressive.
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2012, 06:30 PM   #6
askjeeves
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 350z/e92 m3
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Miami, FL

Posts: 477
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s
Quote:
Originally Posted by askjeeves View Post
some additional information i think is relevant but omitted by the OP. only pads that were obliterated were the front passenger side. Others were still good. I'd estimate approx use of 25% of other pads. I'd think this negates bad braking technique being the cause (but i'm no expert).
Was he running with his MDM on?.This will put a lot of extra heat into the system and cause uneven pad wear if he is aggressive.
Yes running MDM. Would MDM activate individual wheel braking on the inside or outside wheel in a turn (assuming pushing through turns)?
__________________
2011 e92 ///m3 zcp - jzb/fr
ED 6/29/10
askjeeves is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2012, 06:43 PM   #7
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,677
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by askjeeves View Post
Yes running MDM. Would MDM activate individual wheel braking on the inside or outside wheel in a turn (assuming pushing through turns)?
Yes it would!I have seen this before on Z06 Vettes when running the competition mode where it wore the pads off the primarily inside front brake and the other side looked almost new.
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2012, 10:52 PM   #8
Caspita
Turbo Guru
 
Drives: 2011.99 E92 ///M
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: So. Fla

Posts: 246
iTrader: (0)

As jeeves mentioned it was only on one side, and I was driving with mdm on. I wouldn't say I was driving anymore aggressive then what I normally do out there, and my oem pads have made it easily 2 days out at Homestead with plenty to spare.
__________________
Caspita is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-10-2012, 06:24 PM   #9
Purplem3pursuit
New Member
 
Drives: AW/BL E92 M3 Competition
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posts: 28
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
Agree something is not right. I don't want to blame the driver, maybe you have a stuck caliper or something but you should have noticed a decline in brake function. What did the driver's side look like? Keep in mind that endurance racers are going 24 hours on one or sometimes two sets of pads (the Pagid is a well known endurance racing pad), so to wear a front set out in just a few sessions is highly unusual.

I'm just back from Road Atlanta and I got repeated brake fade for the very first time (I have RS-19s, ducted/vented brakes on stock rotors and calipers) and yet, the pad wear on my fronts I'd say is 20% or so (but I only did one day's worth of driving due to a flat and a DE schedule adjusted for club racing).
Just posted in another thread but was at Road Atl this past weekend as well (the Alpine E92 with Orange mirrors in C group).. Ate away my stock front pads and was using MDM... Sounds like MDM may be the problem. I noticed it coming on from time to time and could feel the fade in 10A pretty bad.
__________________
Alex

Moderator at M3F.c
Purplem3pursuit is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-10-2012, 07:02 PM   #10
Caspita
Turbo Guru
 
Drives: 2011.99 E92 ///M
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: So. Fla

Posts: 246
iTrader: (0)

Took off the pads today front driver had about 75% left, front passenger was completely gone...inside and out.
__________________
Caspita is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-10-2012, 07:21 PM   #11
VictorH
Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC

Posts: 594
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caspita View Post
Took off the pads today front driver had about 75% left, front passenger was completely gone...inside and out.
Wow!
VictorH is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-10-2012, 11:00 PM   #12
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 6|Ridge 1:54:61|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 11,608
iTrader: (5)

yeah thats not right. bad set?
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings & bearings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW race|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-10-2012, 11:16 PM   #13
Caspita
Turbo Guru
 
Drives: 2011.99 E92 ///M
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: So. Fla

Posts: 246
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
yeah thats not right. bad set?
I called Turner to ask what they thought since I bought the pads from them, and they told me it was either some faulty bushings ( i don't think that's the case since there's only 8k miles on my car), or that my caliper stuck....but not sure that was the case since I would have realized some form of seizing while out on the track. Either way they told me faulty pads is a rarity, let alone 2 of them in one box.
__________________
Caspita is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-10-2012, 11:26 PM   #14
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 6|Ridge 1:54:61|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 11,608
iTrader: (5)

maybe your just a mad man on the track then?
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings & bearings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW race|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-10-2012, 11:33 PM   #15
Caspita
Turbo Guru
 
Drives: 2011.99 E92 ///M
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: So. Fla

Posts: 246
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
maybe your just a mad man on the track then?
Haaaaaaaaa...I would like to believe that's not necessarily the case considering there was only about 20% wear on the front driver side.
__________________
Caspita is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-10-2012, 11:45 PM   #16
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 6|Ridge 1:54:61|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 11,608
iTrader: (5)

20 percent seems like a lot to use in one day also. like others were saying those pagids last 12hrs in endurance racing on quicker cars then we have but i guess also lighter.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings & bearings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW race|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-11-2012, 07:43 AM   #17
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,677
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
20 percent seems like a lot to use in one day also. like others were saying those pagids last 12hrs in endurance racing on quicker cars then we have but i guess also lighter.
They also have proper brake cooling which one of our issues on our cars.I still say that the differential wear rate is caused by the stability control not any fault of the pads.Once the the pad is overheated the wear rate will increase greatly compared to a pad that is at the proper operating heat range during a session.

Last edited by Gearhead999s; 09-11-2012 at 07:49 AM.
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-11-2012, 09:39 AM   #18
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 6|Ridge 1:54:61|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 11,608
iTrader: (5)

Probably so gearhead. I still run with mdm on and think I experienced similar thing last time out on my ds2500s. But wear was even side to side for me on the front.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings & bearings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW race|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-11-2012, 10:12 AM   #19
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,677
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
Probably so gearhead. I still run with mdm on and think I experienced similar thing last time out on my ds2500s. But wear was even side to side for me on the front.
I had my MDM reset thanks to a passenger flailing around in the cockpit which turned it on during a session a bit ago and I was wondering why I had so much pad dust on the wheels and a poor pedal after this one session.My rear disc's had pad deposits which normally never happens.I was going fairly smoothly and the MDM was that instrusive that I feel I would never want to have it on while lapping.Rememember that I also run a Stoptech 380/355 BBK.
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-12-2012, 09:57 AM   #20
edwinm3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
edwinm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 MELBOURNE RED M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Doral

Posts: 1,693
iTrader: (8)

Sounds like MDM was killing your brakes. HMS is not a very fast track I don't see how you would wear out your pads
__________________

Evolve Stage 2, GTS-DCT Software, Akrapovic Exhaust, AA Catless X Pipe, AA Geen Air filter, AA Pulley, Stoptech BBK, KW V3 Coilovers
"If it feels like it's on rails, you're not driving fast enough"
edwinm3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2012, 11:52 PM   #21
MFKN3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
MFKN3's Avatar
 
Drives: 4.5L stroker s/c E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia

Posts: 1,933
iTrader: (2)

prob cracked the pad? it's been known to happen
MFKN3 is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-17-2012, 01:23 PM   #22
gsrbri
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Boston, MA

Posts: 46
iTrader: (0)

Which Pagid pad?

The braking program on the MDM should only activate if you are regularly achieving significant yaw in the turns, which isn't a very fast way around the circuit. That said, in my track experience, no way you can blow away a passenger-side pad set, in that short of a time, unless the caliper is hung or the pads are installed improperly. Possibly a set of stock pads at a racetrack that is hard on the brakes might disintegrate, but not racing pads.

Sounds very odd. I have gotten 8 full DE events (4 lapping sessions per event) out of my RS-19 front / RS-7 rears and they are at probably 30% remaining. My approach is typically slow-in/fast-out, so I'm very hard on the brakes. Rarely encounter fade on the two tracks I've run at (Mt. Tremblant and NHMS). I also usually run w/MDM on. Wear is very uniform all-around (four-corners).

Any more info you can provide? -Brian
gsrbri is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:54 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST