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      09-14-2012, 03:31 PM   #23
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      09-14-2012, 03:48 PM   #24
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In For Sure, 100%.
CARAVAN!!!!
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      09-18-2012, 04:49 PM   #25
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CARAVAN!!!!
Ahhh jeah!
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      09-18-2012, 10:19 PM   #26
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I would consider it if some of their evaluation practices have changed. They have great instructors for the most part but no formalized evaluation system for the instructors, a practice we have in the midwest.

Last time I went, they do secret grading of the students and do not share their "records." Sort of hard to improve if they will not tell you what to work on.

Also when it rained, they let people run windows up.
This and the higher cost are the 2 reasons the BMW Club has fallen from favor.

I've been told that BMWCCA mandates things (not sure) that increase cost but I wish Norcal could make it more palatable to participate.

The instructors need evaluating because some of them should not be instructing or need more instruction on instructing (nice sentence). I have seen a lot driving and lack of vision by instructors that is unforgivable. Something is seriously wrong when GGR BMWCCA says not to share video of instructors. Yikes! I have my flame suit on.

I really would love GGR BMWCCA to get back to a point where they are holding great events that don't break the bank.
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      09-18-2012, 10:43 PM   #27
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      09-18-2012, 11:17 PM   #28
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I got an evaluation with all the LA CCA event's I've gone to, but when I went to the NorCal event, there was no review of my driving with my instructor, and no evaluation of my instructor for me to fill out.

As for the cost, it's not like the instructors are paid. They get 1/2 a room and lunch in most cases. Sometimes they'll get a session with the LA Chapter depending on how long the daylight is. I know in other parts of the country, they have to pay for their own rooms, but get a session. The CCA also tends to limit the number of cars a lot more than events like SpeedVentures.
.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      11-05-2012, 08:31 PM   #29
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Anyone heard anything about this event?
Is it a go? It's not on their website yet.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      11-05-2012, 08:48 PM   #30
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      11-12-2012, 12:28 AM   #31
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No decision yet as to whether the January Laguna school is a go or not... I think the HPDE team wanted to get some feedback from students/instructors during this weekend's Thunderhill school before deciding. The monthly board meeting is on Tuesday, so if I hear anything I'll update here.

I must have missed responding to some of the earlier comments while traveling...
If any students aren't getting the feedback/instruction quality that you think you should be getting, I'd encourage you to bring it up with the chief instructors so that they know. We don't do paper evals like LA does, but ask your instructor for feedback if they don't give it to you, and if you have comments about your instructor, let the CI's or registration staff know... maybe drop them an email afterwards.

As aus mentioned, GGC instructors only get reimbursed for half their hotel room cost, and get lunch. A few years ago, GGC used to pay for the full hotel room cost, but cut it to half (to get instructors to share rooms) to try to help offset rising track rental costs. That's something that other west coast chapters haven't had to do yet. The instructors are all volunteers who are in it mostly for the enjoyment of teaching students to drive better. Nobody is getting paid, and in fact they're all paying out of their own pockets for gas, tires, brakes, etc. In between students, they may get some track time, but quite often it's taking a student out as a passenger as a teaching exercise, certainly not because they are out trying to set a lap record!

BMWCCA does mandate minimum standards (so do PCA and other clubs) which all the chapters need to abide by... Look up the operations manual on the national BMWCCA website and you'll get a sense of how that leads to the CCA format and safety policies.

Cost wise, the numbers are straightforward. Call up any track and ask them the rental costs, add in corner/safety workers, and insurance, any other costs (in our case instructor half hotels and lunches), and then divide by the number of students. CCA schools on the west coast typically have no more than ~25 cars per run group to limit traffic, and 4 run groups so there is more track time. The only way to lower costs is to have more paying participants, which means more cars on track at a given time, and/or more/shorter run groups. Our previous driving events coordinator wrote up an article with the numbers a few years ago in the newsletter. Since then, track rental costs have continued to go up.

jbass524 - not sure what you meant about being told not to share video of instructors... I've never heard anything along that line. You do mean BMW club, right? You wrote "GGR" but that would be Porsche club, "GGC" is BMW club.

Anyone feel free to PM me if you want to talk more offline. I think everyone in the club wants fun, cheap, and safe events... Just remember that the club is non-profit and the volunteer staff only has so much free time when they are not doing their day jobs to organize club events!
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      11-14-2012, 09:59 PM   #32
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Don't have a final "yes" yet... but looking most likely that we will be doing the Laguna school in January. The HPDE team still needs to crunch a few numbers and should have a decision over this weekend.

Unfortunately, on a separate note, Sonoma sounds like it is nowhere close to being in the realm of possibilities for our chapter at a reasonable price... Seems that they must be in competition with Lime Rock for the most expensive track rental rate in the country. Let's just say that there are a few brand new BMW models, not even stripped down, which would cost LESS than what I was told for just the surface rental cost (not including the cost of corner/safety workers and insurance) would be for an off-season day... WOW!
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      11-14-2012, 10:10 PM   #33
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Don't have a final "yes" yet... but looking most likely that we will be doing the Laguna school in January. The HPDE team still needs to crunch a few numbers and should have a decision over this weekend.

Unfortunately, on a separate note, Sonoma sounds like it is nowhere close to being in the realm of possibilities for our chapter at a reasonable price... Seems that they must be in competition with Lime Rock for the most expensive track rental rate in the country. Let's just say that there are a few brand new BMW models, not even stripped down, which would cost LESS than what I was told for just the surface rental cost (not including the cost of corner/safety workers and insurance) would be for an off-season day... WOW!
Thanks for the update. Fingers crossed.
I'm surprised Sears Point is more than Laguna Seca.

.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      11-14-2012, 10:25 PM   #34
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      11-15-2012, 03:43 PM   #35
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      11-15-2012, 04:21 PM   #36
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Don't have a final "yes" yet... but looking most likely that we will be doing the Laguna school in January. The HPDE team still needs to crunch a few numbers and should have a decision over this weekend.
Any chance there will be racing at the event? I just got my rookie license in the mail last week and would love an excuse to haul back out there again.
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      11-15-2012, 05:05 PM   #37
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      11-15-2012, 10:53 PM   #38
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Any chance there will be racing at the event? I just got my rookie license in the mail last week and would love an excuse to haul back out there again.
Nope... GGC has not been holding club races at HPDEs recently. Check with BMWCCA Club Racing - they held a race at Laguna a month ago at a NASA event.
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      11-16-2012, 04:45 PM   #39
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Any updates from last night's meeting?
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      11-21-2012, 10:08 PM   #40
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The board meeting was last Tuesday night actually - my last post was after it. I haven't heard anything official since. I did notice that it is being advertised in the latest chapter newsletter, but it was probably put in a while ago for the print deadline.
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      11-22-2012, 12:35 PM   #41
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The board meeting was last Tuesday night actually - my last post was after it. I haven't heard anything official since. I did notice that it is being advertised in the latest chapter newsletter, but it was probably put in a while ago for the print deadline.
If they decide to go forward, when will you know? I looked on the site and its on the calendar. Thank you and Happy Turkey day!
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      11-26-2012, 05:41 PM   #42
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Any decision yet?
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      11-27-2012, 08:05 PM   #43
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I posted on their Facebook page in their thread to gauge interest and haven't seen any update there either.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      11-27-2012, 11:59 PM   #44
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I'm surprised and depressed BMWCCA GGR isn't able to figure out how to hold track days so they don't lose money.

It's how I got started and I think it's still the best way to get going on the track.
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