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      09-10-2012, 03:08 PM   #1
Omar@VelosDesignwerks
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Velos Designwerks | ESSVT625 Supercharger System Dyno Results w/ Conditions

Fellow Enthusiasts,

A few months back we installed two ESS VT625 Supercharger Systems on two 2011 E92 M3's with DCT transmission... Typical Miami weather as it was 90+ degrees and extremely humid. With that said we have been getting a good amount of inquiries and questioins regarding how these cars will perform in hotter climates, whether meth is required, air to air vs air to water, etc..


There are a few choices out there for SC systems, we welcome all questions or concerns. A lot of information on the forum and unfortunately there is too much "bandwagoning" or "sales talk" and not enough facts.

Car #1 & 2 - ESS VT625 Supercharger Systems. NO meth. Akra full exhaust.

For those of you wondering, adding meth to any of these cars should add another 30-40 rwhp easily.

p.s. this is more of an education thread that anything so all FI companies can feel free to chime in.... it's actually welcome.

Dyno Chart & Conditions -

One with an educated guess would assume meth would add another 30-40 rwhp. Meth works, no secret to it. Is it a good option for daily driving, in my opinion only if the system is not dependent on it.. What happens when it runs out? What happens if the system fails? Doesn't happen often but something to think about. On these two particular cars we suggested to stay away from the meth option for the initial installed and both clients were impressed with the numbers on the dyno and even more with the real world driving experience.

Myth.... power under the curve is great but a little research will show you that most kits on the market will make similar torque because of the behavior of the motor. The biggest difference will be the peak horsepower... if the blower on the car is out of air you can either lower the redline so the drop off in power isn't as big or it will just fall of.. When the blower is done you can ask for all the boost in the world but if the blower isnt capable of it then it simply will not make the power... Others ways to make up for an inadequate blower is via ignition timing which is obviously not recommended and can lead to engine failures....

Car # 1





Car # 2






Last edited by Omar@VelosDesignwerks; 09-10-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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      09-10-2012, 03:23 PM   #2
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Good stuff Omar.
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08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
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      09-10-2012, 03:37 PM   #3
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Omar, if only you had a similar informative thread with a VT1-535 system.... it would make things very clear for me!
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      09-10-2012, 03:38 PM   #4
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Jeez Omar you have no idea how much you make me want a SC lol
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      09-10-2012, 03:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
Omar, if only you had a similar informative thread with a VT1-535 system.... it would make things very clear for me!
Going to reply to your PM in a second
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      09-10-2012, 03:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C|3R1C View Post
Jeez Omar you have no idea how much you make me want a SC lol
ahh yes blame me, its my fault right
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      09-10-2012, 03:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar@VelosDesignwerks View Post
ahh yes blame me, its my fault right
Of course it is! Putting up all these pretty pictures and dynos.
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      09-10-2012, 03:53 PM   #8
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Just curious, but what gear did you dyno in?
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      09-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg///M3 View Post
Just curious, but what gear did you dyno in?
Fourth
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      09-10-2012, 04:58 PM   #10
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I'm curious to see what numbers I get once my 625 is installed. I did 373whp / 283wtrq on Dynojet. Catless, AA filter, and AA tune. Stock muffler.
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      09-10-2012, 05:17 PM   #11
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Very nice Omar and great work. Nice meeting you @ Bimmerstock !
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      09-10-2012, 06:52 PM   #12
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If you were to put meth on a ess vt650 what kind of setup would you use?
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      09-10-2012, 07:10 PM   #13
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Oh... I like where this is going.
Hehehehe
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      09-10-2012, 07:43 PM   #14
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I guess I missed it but what is the myth and what chargers are you speaking of?
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      09-10-2012, 08:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh View Post
If you were to put meth on a ess vt650 what kind of setup would you use?
Hello Leigh,

Hope all is well, ideally we would use a cooling mist progressive setup with a 50/50 mix.
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      09-10-2012, 08:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
I guess I missed it but what is the myth and what chargers are you speaking of?
Hey,

Regarding myths it was more of a generalization than anything. As far as the chargers are concerned I was referring to Superchargers. Did you have a more direct question? I want to make sure you get all the answers you are looking for.

Best Regards,
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      09-10-2012, 08:42 PM   #17
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      09-10-2012, 08:46 PM   #18
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In regards to this part "Myth.... power under the curve is great but a little research will show you that most kits on the market will make similar torque because of the behavior of the motor"

This is a very broad statement with no actual facts behind it. Looking at most of the dyno's posted on here the difference at around 5200rpm can be as much as 30-40 Wtq.
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      09-10-2012, 08:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
In regards to this part
Quote:
"Myth.... power under the curve is great but a little research will show you that most kits on the market will make similar torque because of the behavior of the motor"
This is a very broad statement with no actual facts behind it. Looking at most of the dyno's posted on here the difference at around 5200rpm can be as much as 30-40 Wtq.
Hey,

Helped you out with the quote. It was meant to be a broad statement.. When you compare kits rated at the same HP level you will notice the torque gains/peaks are pretty similar. This is because at this rpm the Supercharger units are still well within their efficiency range. The efficiency range is not tested until the higher rpm range (where the S65 shines) because amount of air required... Do you agree with this?
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      09-10-2012, 09:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar@VelosDesignwerks View Post
Hey,

Helped you out with the quote. It was meant to be a broad statement.. When you compare kits rated at the same HP level you will notice the torque gains/peaks are pretty similar. This is because at this rpm the Supercharger units are still well within their efficiency range. The efficiency range is not tested until the higher rpm range (where the S65 shines) because amount of air required... Do you agree with this?
While it does make sense its not 100% accurate. It would depend on many variables such as the type of supercharger used, pulley size ect. One supercharger can be more efficient then the other from 2000 to 7000 and still out perform the blower with the higher rpm efficiency. Maybe not on a dyno but in a real world situation where it matters.

Check out this dyno thread to check your theory. You will notice the differences in cars with the same or more rated Hp.


http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...7#post12659457
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      09-10-2012, 09:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
While it does make sense its not 100% accurate. It would depend on many variables such as the type of supercharger used, pulley size ect.

Check out this dyno thread to check your theory. You will notice the differences in cars with the same or more rated Hp.


http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...7#post12659457
The type of supercharger and pulley size are irrelevant. When a prospective client begins to look at SC kits they look at kits in "class" or kits with the same rating, IE someone doesn't call and ask to compare your HKS kit to a Rotrex based system. Instead they ask for your stage 2 or the competitors stage 2. At this point the prospective client does not really care about the type of blower, injector size, or kind of intercooler.... They like to compare apples to apples if that makes any sense to you..

Regarding the thread you pointed me to you need to remember just because company A calls their kit a 6xx kit it doesnt necessarily mean the kit makes the advertised #'s. Unfortunately for the enthusiasts and fortunately for some SC companies there is no governing board or body that says you are not allowed to refer to your kit as a 6xx because it does not make the claimed power....

Andrew it's not really a theory, bring up any two systems on the market and we can both break them down.

Best,
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      09-10-2012, 09:25 PM   #22
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Omar, I'm assuming you guys are an authorized installer for the ESS blower?
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