BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (ALMS, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..)
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-03-2012, 04:44 PM   #67
johanness
Banned
23
Rep
1,741
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 Z4MC
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle, Vancouver

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
From the Stewards on Grosjean:


That feels like both Ferrari and McLaren teamed up to lobby the stewards into the ban. Though it was justified.
So if Grosjean take out some HRT and Marussia, he will just be given a reprimand and fine only?

What happened to fairness and consistency?
Exactly this.

Race ban for Grosjean is retarded. ShIt happens, get over it. Should have been just a grid penalty. Take out two worse drivers than not & he would've received a slap on the wrist. McLaren & Ferrari teams are supreme whiners, while Lotus takes it up the ass w/o a peep.
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2012, 04:56 PM   #68
gary88
Ikea enthusiast
gary88's Avatar
United_States
101
Rep
7,995
Posts

 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2007 E92 335i  [3.91]
While Maldonado's moves have been stupid and he's been penalized accordingly, they've never put another driver in a position to be seriously injured like Grosjean's move yesterday. Even Niki Lauda said to the BBC after the race he thought he should get at least a two race ban.
__________________

garyhebdingjr.com | flickr | Instagram@garyhebding
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2012, 07:35 PM   #69
UltimateBMW
Brigadier General
UltimateBMW's Avatar
106
Rep
3,287
Posts

 
Drives: MP4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
I would be more supportive of the FIAs decision had they used the same logic with Maldonado. in other words they're selectively enforcing rullings on stupid move and that isn't ok.

Personally I see about a meter to the right of Hamilton, but Grosjean was a bit too aggressive on the squeeze. I'd give it a grid penalty personally - but a race ban is ridiculous.
If Hamilton had a meter to the right, why did his rear wheel hit the grass after the impact and spin out? Sometimes perception is blurred, so that is proof enough to me he had no where to go. I believe he also had a car directly behind him as well.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2012, 08:13 PM   #70
BrokenVert
Resident Kerbalnaut
BrokenVert's Avatar
United_States
148
Rep
10,077
Posts

 
Drives: Topless 135/Electric Boogaloo
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fahrvergnügen/NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
If Hamilton had a meter to the right, why did his rear wheel hit the grass after the impact and spin out? Sometimes perception is blurred, so that is proof enough to me he had no where to go. I believe he also had a car directly behind him as well.
The car behind hamilton was about a carlength back and off to the left.

These are screencaps from just after the first impact, which was very slight (maybe 5cm of actual rubber contact)

Theres easily a meter of road there that Hamilton couldve ducked into (and I think thats what Grosjean was counting on)

__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2012, 11:29 PM   #71
UltimateBMW
Brigadier General
UltimateBMW's Avatar
106
Rep
3,287
Posts

 
Drives: MP4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
The car behind hamilton was about a carlength back and off to the left.

These are screencaps from just after the first impact, which was very slight (maybe 5cm of actual rubber contact)

Theres easily a meter of road there that Hamilton couldve ducked into (and I think thats what Grosjean was counting on)

Grosjean doesn't own the road, nor should he be allowed to bully a car to the last few inches of pavement. And despite that picture, Hamilton still ended up with a wheel on the grass and losing control out of it. Anyways, to me the orientation of Hamilton's car in the top right subframe looks like he is already angled towards the side of the road. This is supported even more as you consider that the camera is off to the left of the track by a few meters and Hamilton's wheel look square-on to our view in that shot.

Not to mention that at the driver's eye level he can't even see where the track ends and the grass begins so close to the car. So there is still a matter of guesswork anyways.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2012, 11:33 PM   #72
UltimateBMW
Brigadier General
UltimateBMW's Avatar
106
Rep
3,287
Posts

 
Drives: MP4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South

iTrader: (0)

Lets also not forget that they are approaching a right-hander at high speed on a short stint of pavement as well.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 06:48 AM   #73
escobar929
Brigadier General
escobar929's Avatar
53
Rep
4,309
Posts

 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hollywood, FL

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
2015 M235i  [0.00]
somehow i knew people would try to argue LH was partly at fault on this one, even though it was clearly 100% on Grosjean
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 07:18 AM   #74
BrokenVert
Resident Kerbalnaut
BrokenVert's Avatar
United_States
148
Rep
10,077
Posts

 
Drives: Topless 135/Electric Boogaloo
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fahrvergnügen/NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by escobar929 View Post
somehow i knew people would try to argue LH was partly at fault on this one, even though it was clearly 100% on Grosjean
I'm not saying that it's Hamiltons fault at all actually. Grosjean was too aggressive - I'm just trying to add a bit more perspective on it.

You can see the video he moves over very heavily and from the other side of the track to block Hamilton.

I'm just saying that a race ban - with everything else that the FIA hasn't given a race ban for is - is far too much.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 08:51 AM   #75
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
876
Rep
61,168
Posts

 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
Again, clearly a mistake on Grosjean and he deserved the penalty.

But what is a fair penalty? Taking out world championship contenders will be race ban? and taking out mid-field will be 10-place grid penalty? taking out drivers never scored any points yet will result a 3-place grid penalty? Victims will be accumulated penalties?

Perhaps the stewards decided his mistake could result a very serious accident and injured some other drivers. Thus this kind of harsh penalty. But the thing is, (compare to Maldonado), Grosgean is very apologetic to the accident he caused and take full responsibility like a man. No excuses, just a bad move and over ambitious.

Unlike some drivers who never learn from his over aggressiveness, lack of driver respect and etiquette. Use his car as a weapon to crash on to Hamilton last year in Spa, and earlier this year in Monaco with Perez. These are the deliberate actions that can possibly injure other drivers, and these are the race bans that the stewards should given.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 10:32 AM   #76
escobar929
Brigadier General
escobar929's Avatar
53
Rep
4,309
Posts

 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hollywood, FL

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
2015 M235i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
I'm just saying that a race ban - with everything else that the FIA hasn't given a race ban for is - is far too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Again, clearly a mistake on Grosjean and he deserved the penalty.

But what is a fair penalty? Taking out world championship contenders will be race ban? and taking out mid-field will be 10-place grid penalty? taking out drivers never scored any points yet will result a 3-place grid penalty? Victims will be accumulated penalties?

Perhaps the stewards decided his mistake could result a very serious accident and injured some other drivers. Thus this kind of harsh penalty. But the thing is, (compare to Maldonado), Grosgean is very apologetic to the accident he caused and take full responsibility like a man. No excuses, just a bad move and over ambitious.

Unlike some drivers who never learn from his over aggressiveness, lack of driver respect and etiquette. Use his car as a weapon to crash on to Hamilton last year in Spa, and earlier this year in Monaco with Perez. These are the deliberate actions that can possibly injure other drivers, and these are the race bans that the stewards should given.
I def agree w/ that, there is an inconsistency w/ the way penalties are given

for this one, i was sort of ok w/ due to the severity of the crash, seeing the Lotus fly over Alonso head was pretty scary

but also a good point, Maldonado not getting any type of severe penalty for all he's done is very wrong
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 11:52 AM   #77
escobar929
Brigadier General
escobar929's Avatar
53
Rep
4,309
Posts

 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hollywood, FL

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
2015 M235i  [0.00]
one last thing i just remembered about this race, what about that pass the Iceman pulled on Schummi on the run up to la rogue, wow!
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 07:39 PM   #78
Zoli007
Second Lieutenant
Zoli007's Avatar
United_States
8
Rep
218
Posts

 
Drives: 2003 M5
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Davie Florida

iTrader: (0)

Something no one has mentioned yet about the crash at the start, had any of those cars come across the wall on the right and side, we would have had several dead photographers. A whole lot of them were standing there some even hanging their bodies over the concrete fence, what a mess that would have been...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 09:16 PM   #79
cjwb1984
Private First Class
cjwb1984's Avatar
United_States
8
Rep
125
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 BMW Z4 Sdrive35i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Congratulation Jenson Button. Good win, good driver, not great but just a smooth driving style.
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 09:46 PM   #80
GuyOh
Lieutenant Colonel
GuyOh's Avatar
Canada
23
Rep
1,819
Posts

 
Drives: 08 AW 335i coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver B.C.

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 335i  [0.00]
I totally think Grosjean's penalty is fair, the problem is Maldonado's penalties have not been severe enough
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 10:45 PM   #81
Timujin
First Lieutenant
Timujin's Avatar
4
Rep
361
Posts

 
Drives: 335d
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335d  [3.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoli007 View Post
Something no one has mentioned yet about the crash at the start, had any of those cars come across the wall on the right and side, we would have had several dead photographers. A whole lot of them were standing there some even hanging their bodies over the concrete fence, what a mess that would have been...
This what I was waiting to read here. Not to mention the potential for tires flying straight off the track in the crowd. Glad there were no injuries.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2012, 12:11 PM   #82
escobar929
Brigadier General
escobar929's Avatar
53
Rep
4,309
Posts

 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hollywood, FL

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
2015 M235i  [0.00]
I really enjoy these, didnt see this one get posted yet

Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:50 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST