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      09-06-2012, 05:11 PM   #45
MMME30W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
Rabble! RABBLE RABBLE!


All kidding aside, this is a good thread, I've learned a lot.

1M guys, good for you. It's an awesome M car in every way.
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      09-06-2012, 07:54 PM   #46
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Excellent post, but as one who has driven both extensively on the track (well, the 1M not "extensively" but enough), I have to correct the following:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you View Post
Stock for stock both cars are identical in acceleration to 100mph. Both cars make it to 1/4 mile in 12.9sec..
That's incorrect. Same track, same day, I've driven both (DCT vs 6MT on 1M), and G-Pro numbers matched somewhat what C&D's numbers are:

M3: (DCT: 0-60 3.9s, 1/4 @ 12.4s)
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...10-comparo.pdf
1M: (6MT: 0-60 4.5s, 1/4 @ 13.0s...although my time was closer to 12.7s)
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-g-coupe-1.pdf

fastestlaps also corroborates my numbers as well as C&D's:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...r_m_coupe.html

lighting round laps around VIR also show the difference with tracks on longer sections, vs tracks with smaller sections and more curves, such as Hoffenheim:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to-2011-page-8
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...2-class-page-4

M3: 3.05.4s
1M: 3.06.6s

Quote:
The M3's V8 sounds incredible but my 1M with the Eisenmann exhaust sounds pretty damn good as well.
indeed. How does the M3 with an Akra or Gintani or Eisenmann race sound...?



Again, you make some very good points, most of which I agree with, but lets keep "Facts" vs "Opinions" on certain areas (such as performance numbers, or "modded" sounds, etc) to the numbers...

cheers!
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      09-06-2012, 08:26 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
Excellent post, but as one who has driven both extensively on the track (well, the 1M not "extensively" but enough), I have to correct the following:



That's incorrect. Same track, same day, I've driven both (DCT vs 6MT) C&D's numbers are:

M3: (DCT: 0-60 3.9s, 1/4 @ 12.4s)



indeed. How does the M3 with an Akra or Gintani or Eisenmann race sound...?



Again, you make some very good points, most of which I agree with, but lets keep "Facts" vs "Opinions" on certain areas (such as performance numbers, or "modded" sounds, etc) to the numbers...

cheers!
I've owned/own both cars. 3yrs on the E90M3 and 1yr now with the 1M.


My exhaust comment was reflecting my dislike for the the stock 1M exhaust more than anything else, whereas the stock M3 sounds excellent in stock form.

My numbers are FACTS and my comparison was done using C&D as well. Not some stupid street racing kill story like some are using for their talking points in this thread. But my comparison was more apple2apple, meaning 6MT on both. I think you'll find those numbers to be far more similar. Anyone shopping for DCT obviously cant cross-shop with a 1M so that comparison is moot. No doubt the DCT is faster than 6MT, regardless of whether you are comparing it to an M3 or 1M. This is not a DCT vs 6MT thread tho.

My whole point is the juvenile trash talk is silly considering how close the performance is. Silly considering most who have such strong opinions on the matter have never seen a 1M let alone drive one seriously enough to make an assessment on the car. That's all. I imagine this thread will see the locked icon soon. I've said my Peace.
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      09-06-2012, 08:42 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you View Post
Seems like a lot of people talking out of their asses. People who haven't owned both cars or even driven both cars. Stock for stock both cars are identical in acceleration to 100mph. Both cars make it to 1/4 mile in 12.9sec, beyond that, aerodynamics and the M3's high end power will begin to take over and start creating a gap.


In fact, from my personnal experiences(I've raced at least 10 times against 2 different stock 1Ms on the highway from 50 to 120+mph with my stock manual E92), the 1M is equal with the M3 up to until I shift in 3rd gear(around 75-80mph) and then it's a complete destruction, not even a close race so I can only imagine how a DCT M3 would annihilate a 1M specially in the 0-100mph.

Edit: and this ain't some stupid street racing kill story, the first 1M I've raced was my friends, we raced like 8 times in a row on the highway on our way back from a track day at Calabogie last summer, and just to confurm that, I raced a different 1M twice a couple of days ago, same condition, highway, 2nd gear to 4th, same result, not even close!

Last edited by Alex07M3; 09-06-2012 at 09:24 PM.
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      09-06-2012, 08:53 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you View Post
I've owned/own both cars. 3yrs on the E90M3 and 1yr now with the 1M.


My exhaust comment was reflecting my dislike for the the stock 1M exhaust more than anything else, whereas the stock M3 sounds excellent in stock form.

My numbers are FACTS and my comparison was done using C&D as well. Not some stupid street racing kill story like some are using for their talking points in this thread. But my comparison was more apple2apple, meaning 6MT on both. I think you'll find those numbers to be far more similar. Anyone shopping for DCT obviously cant cross-shop with a 1M so that comparison is moot. No doubt the DCT is faster than 6MT, regardless of whether you are comparing it to an M3 or 1M. This is not a DCT vs 6MT thread tho.

My whole point is the juvenile trash talk is silly considering how close the performance is. Silly considering most who have such strong opinions on the matter have never seen a 1M let alone drive one seriously enough to make an assessment on the car. That's all. I imagine this thread will see the locked icon soon. I've said my Peace.
I understand the gist of your point, and for the most part I agree. No worries

Yes, the debate of the 6MT vs DCT is separate debate for sure, but again, you just can't throw comments like "...they are identical..." when this is not quite correct even for manual numbers.

Again, plenty of track time with the manual M3 (ZCP Manual), and Gpro times still match the times out there for manual M3's:
060 mph: 4.1 sec (my times were closer to 4.2-.3)
-mile: 12.6 sec @ 113 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-of-horsepower

not vastly faster, but not identical either...let's be fair, that's all.

I'm not sure, however, why you are so defensive, and feel the need post comments such as:
"...My numbers are FACTS and my comparison was done using C&D as well. Not some stupid street racing kill story..."
or
"... I imagine this thread will see the locked icon soon. I've said my Peace..."

We outta be able to have a respectful and amicable conversation about these cars without getting so defensive or throwing indirects here and there. Both great cars, both similar performance overall (manual of course), and both have their pros and cons...simple as that.
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      09-06-2012, 08:59 PM   #50
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I for one hope that the above ^^^^ type posts continue and the thread does not get locked.

The chances of me driving a 1M are slim so I'm interested in first hand experiences.
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      09-06-2012, 11:42 PM   #51
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M3 sounds better and looks better
1m for performance(simple tune and its faster/ m3 is expensive to mod)
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      09-07-2012, 11:46 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
....not vastly faster, but not identical either...let's be fair, that's all.....We outta be able to have a respectful and amicable conversation about these cars without getting so defensive or throwing indirects here and there. Both great cars, both similar performance overall (manual of course), and both have their pros and cons...simple as that.
I don't see how I have been disrespectful at all. There is enough tests out there that show the performance is "essentially" identical up to about 100. I didn't know that we were going to be arguing a SINGLE TENTH of a second. The driver's skill level is going to be the biggest factor when you are talking about manual cars. So with the same testing techniques/equipment, CD averages the results and we have 1/10 of a second difference in both 0-60 and 1/4 mile, 2mph 1/4 mile speed, essentially the same grip and braking. I know that beyond the 1/4 mile speed the M3 will walk the 1M, I owned an E90 and am familiar with it's high en capabilities. I don't want to spend a Sunday in prison like my brother for those antics. I save that for the track. But for that <100mph fun on public roads, neither car is going to destroy the other.

0-60:
1M= 4.5sec
M3= 4.4sec

1/4 mile:
1M= 13.0 @ 109mph
M3= 12.9 @ 111mph

Skidpad:
1M= .97g
M3= .94g(other tests show .97g)

Braking 70-0:
1M 159ft
M3 163ft(other tests show 158-159ft)

Source:
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-g-coupe-1.pdf
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...tory-final.pdf
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      09-07-2012, 11:58 AM   #53
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The e92 M3 has been my dream car ever since I can remember and will be the first car I save up my cash for. That being said the 1M is an amazing car and would love to get a chance to drive both and compare. Both on the track and street. Would not mind having both in the garage, but if I were to pick only 1, I would go for the M3. Its a different league of car, a thoroughbred.
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      09-07-2012, 12:22 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you View Post
...neither car is going to destroy the other..
and who exactly said anything remotely close to that statement?

Metak, you also replied in the other thread. It's fairly obvious you have no desire whatsoever to have an educated, fact-based, respectful, and amicable debate regarding these cars, in the spirit of conversation and education. Example, you keep posting 'averaged' numbers, or "non-DCT vs 6mt" (as if that's the M3's fault the 1M didn't come with it), or posting one pdf with the highest timed sheet from C&D to prove your point, and disregarded every single link and source I've posted to show your numbers are not correct.

The whole reason I even posted in this thread was to correct your "..they are identical in performance.." statement you made, which has been proven to be not quite exact.

I'll let you continue on your tangents and defensive posture, and I will humbly bow out of this conversation with you.

Enjoy your car...it's a great car.
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      09-07-2012, 01:13 PM   #55
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Depends on how anal you want to be about the use of the word identical. Seems pretty much identical in performance to me, although I do agree that the M3 will have the better top end. Hard to find even 2 M3s that are identical in performance. Magazines have them running from 110 to 115 in the quarter. And the explanation is not early versus late models or manual versus DCT. Road & Track had a 6 speed 08 M3 at 4.1 to 60, and 12.5 at 114.8 in the quarter.
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      09-07-2012, 01:14 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Depends on how anal you want to be about the use of the word identical. Seems pretty much identical in performance to me, although I do agree that the M3 will have the better top end. Hard to find even 2 M3s that are identical in performance. Magazines have them running from 110 to 115 in the quarter. And the explanation is not early versus late models or manual versus DCT. Road & Track had a 6 speed 08 M3 at 4.1 to 60, and 12.5 at 114.8 in the quarter.
well put.
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      09-07-2012, 01:16 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
.....It's fairly obvious you have no desire whatsoever to have an educated, fact-based, respectful, and amicable debate regarding these cars, in the spirit of conversation and education. Example, you keep posting 'averaged' numbers, or "non-DCT vs 6mt" (as if that's the M3's fault the 1M didn't come with it), or posting one pdf with the highest timed sheet from C&D to prove your point, and disregarded every single link and source I've posted to show your numbers are not correct.

The whole reason I even posted in this thread was to correct your "..they are identical in performance.." statement you made, which has been proven to be not quite exact.

I'll let you continue on your tangents and defensive posture, and I will humbly bow out of this conversation with you.

Enjoy your car...it's a great car.
Dude, you are the one throwing the insults around. I am having an educated, fact based discussion. You just don't like the facts I am presenting to you. Car and Driver uses testing methods that include a roll out(like at a drag strip) and yes THEY average the results they get on all their tests. Even the ones you have linked. The .pdf link is a summary from the first dedicated M3 test done by CD, not DCT. You keep posting DCT and your GoPro times for someone shopping for a 6MT. It's not defensive if I point out that if someone wants a DCT then they wouldn't be cross-shopping with the 1M and this whole discussion is MOOT! Not if you want to split atoms over a single effin 1/10 of a second and continue to argue your point(which I don't know what that is), go ahead. To me the 1/10 of a difference is not enough to make such a big point about like you are.

Now lets continue with some more numbers that you might not like.

6MT to 6MT

5-60:
1M= 5.0
M3= 5.1

30-50:
1M= 6.6
M3= 7.2

50-70:
1M= 5.6
M3= 6.2

*if you think the above numbers are meaningless there is no point in further discussing this with you.

But again, my point isn't that the 1M is better, it's just to point out that these cars will get you from point A to 1/4mile in the same time(+- 1/10 depending on driver skill level) but it will happen in very different ways. Your posts and your other thread seems you are the one making this more of an emotional discussion than need be.

Full article on the dedicated M3(6MT) test:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...w-m3-road-test
1M:
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-g-coupe-1.pdf
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      09-07-2012, 01:20 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Depends on how anal you want to be about the use of the word identical. Seems pretty much identical in performance to me, although I do agree that the M3 will have the better top end. Hard to find even 2 M3s that are identical in performance. Magazines have them running from 110 to 115 in the quarter. And the explanation is not early versus late models or manual versus DCT. Road & Track had a 6 speed 08 M3 at 4.1 to 60, and 12.5 at 114.8 in the quarter.
+100000 Well, I'm not the one being anal here. I have been saying all along that they are essentially the same up to a certain point and I am the first to say that beyond that point the M3 will dominate.
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      09-07-2012, 01:45 PM   #59
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This is ridiculous.

Either car will get smoked by a 19 year old driving a civic w/NOS.
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      09-07-2012, 01:47 PM   #60
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lol fanbois...

Both cars are excellent. Flame on fellas...
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      09-07-2012, 02:39 PM   #61
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
This is ridiculous.

Either car will get smoked by a 19 year old driving a civic w/NOS.
Well...

DUH!
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      09-07-2012, 02:41 PM   #62
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M3, but I'm biased towards the V8
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      09-07-2012, 06:24 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you View Post
I don't see how I have been disrespectful at all. There is enough tests out there that show the performance is "essentially" identical up to about 100. I didn't know that we were going to be arguing a SINGLE TENTH of a second. The driver's skill level is going to be the biggest factor when you are talking about manual cars. So with the same testing techniques/equipment, CD averages the results and we have 1/10 of a second difference in both 0-60 and 1/4 mile, 2mph 1/4 mile speed, essentially the same grip and braking. I know that beyond the 1/4 mile speed the M3 will walk the 1M, I owned an E90 and am familiar with it's high en capabilities. I don't want to spend a Sunday in prison like my brother for those antics. I save that for the track. But for that <100mph fun on public roads, neither car is going to destroy the other.0-60:
1M= 4.5sec
M3= 4.4sec

1/4 mile:
1M= 13.0 @ 109mph
M3= 12.9 @ 111mph

Skidpad:
1M= .97g
M3= .94g(other tests show .97g)

Braking 70-0:
1M 159ft
M3 163ft(other tests show 158-159ft)

Source:
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-g-coupe-1.pdf
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...tory-final.pdf
It's obvious that you have'nt had the chance to compare them side by side since you continue to talk about high end power difference, I could repeat it to you all day, I guess you just choose to ignore but the M3 is a hell of a lot faster then the 1M from 75-80mph, that's not high end speed, that's 3rd gear in my M3!! And when I say the 1M has no show, I mean NO SHOW, think about it, 330hp vs 414hp and not much weight difference! So when you say that beyond 1/4mile speed the M3 will walk the 1M, it's simply not true, I pass the 1/4 mile at 111mph and I pass the 1M easily at 80mph! Maybe the 1M is faster then the M3 in the 0 to 40mph, that could explain the similaritys in the 0-60times but for sure as soon as I shifted in 3rd gear the 1Ms that I've raced were not even close(approximatly 2-3 car lenghts only in 3rd gear) and by the end of the 4th gear I had like 10-15 car lenghts(enough that I wondered if my friend was still WOT but he assured me he was) and we repeated that race 7 other times with the same result and a year later, same race against a diffenrent 1M and still the same result, maybe it's not scientific but at least it's not 0-60 numbers in a magazine!!

So in my opinion, in most part of real life situations the M3 is a lot more performing, because real life situation for me is not 0 to 40mph but 40mph to whatever you're willing to go!!

No offence but magazines numbers don't tell the owl story!
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      09-07-2012, 06:35 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you View Post

Now lets continue with some more numbers that you might not like.

6MT to 6MT

5-60:
1M= 5.0
M3= 5.1

30-50:
1M= 6.6
M3= 7.2

50-70:
1M= 5.6
M3= 6.2

]
These are in-gear rather than through-the-gears times, I'm guessing? No doubt blown engines are almost always more effective under this test condition.
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      09-07-2012, 07:36 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Lassiter View Post
These are in-gear rather than through-the-gears times, I'm guessing? No doubt blown engines are almost always more effective under this test condition.
thank you!

Thankfully someone else besides me said it
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      09-07-2012, 11:19 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Lassiter View Post
These are in-gear rather than through-the-gears times, I'm guessing? No doubt blown engines are almost always more effective under this test condition.
It's nearly always true that turbo motors make more mid-range torque, but turbo lag is not your friend in such low-speed roll ons - especially against the M3's right-now throttle response. I'm a little surprised that the 1M does as well as it does from these low engine speeds with no prior load.The M3 does in fact have the reputation of being soft at low rpm, but in my opinion that's only when you compare it to torque-rich cars such as the C63 (and I guess the 1M). Otherwise, it's just fine, and of course the right hand side of the tach is a joy, win or lose against nearly any car.

Bruce
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