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      09-03-2012, 04:44 PM   #67
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From the Stewards on Grosjean:


That feels like both Ferrari and McLaren teamed up to lobby the stewards into the ban. Though it was justified.
So if Grosjean take out some HRT and Marussia, he will just be given a reprimand and fine only?

What happened to fairness and consistency?
Exactly this.

Race ban for Grosjean is retarded. ShIt happens, get over it. Should have been just a grid penalty. Take out two worse drivers than not & he would've received a slap on the wrist. McLaren & Ferrari teams are supreme whiners, while Lotus takes it up the ass w/o a peep.
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      09-03-2012, 04:56 PM   #68
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While Maldonado's moves have been stupid and he's been penalized accordingly, they've never put another driver in a position to be seriously injured like Grosjean's move yesterday. Even Niki Lauda said to the BBC after the race he thought he should get at least a two race ban.
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      09-03-2012, 07:35 PM   #69
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I would be more supportive of the FIAs decision had they used the same logic with Maldonado. in other words they're selectively enforcing rullings on stupid move and that isn't ok.

Personally I see about a meter to the right of Hamilton, but Grosjean was a bit too aggressive on the squeeze. I'd give it a grid penalty personally - but a race ban is ridiculous.
If Hamilton had a meter to the right, why did his rear wheel hit the grass after the impact and spin out? Sometimes perception is blurred, so that is proof enough to me he had no where to go. I believe he also had a car directly behind him as well.
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      09-03-2012, 08:13 PM   #70
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If Hamilton had a meter to the right, why did his rear wheel hit the grass after the impact and spin out? Sometimes perception is blurred, so that is proof enough to me he had no where to go. I believe he also had a car directly behind him as well.
The car behind hamilton was about a carlength back and off to the left.

These are screencaps from just after the first impact, which was very slight (maybe 5cm of actual rubber contact)

Theres easily a meter of road there that Hamilton couldve ducked into (and I think thats what Grosjean was counting on)

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      09-03-2012, 11:29 PM   #71
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The car behind hamilton was about a carlength back and off to the left.

These are screencaps from just after the first impact, which was very slight (maybe 5cm of actual rubber contact)

Theres easily a meter of road there that Hamilton couldve ducked into (and I think thats what Grosjean was counting on)

Grosjean doesn't own the road, nor should he be allowed to bully a car to the last few inches of pavement. And despite that picture, Hamilton still ended up with a wheel on the grass and losing control out of it. Anyways, to me the orientation of Hamilton's car in the top right subframe looks like he is already angled towards the side of the road. This is supported even more as you consider that the camera is off to the left of the track by a few meters and Hamilton's wheel look square-on to our view in that shot.

Not to mention that at the driver's eye level he can't even see where the track ends and the grass begins so close to the car. So there is still a matter of guesswork anyways.
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      09-03-2012, 11:33 PM   #72
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Lets also not forget that they are approaching a right-hander at high speed on a short stint of pavement as well.
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      09-04-2012, 06:48 AM   #73
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somehow i knew people would try to argue LH was partly at fault on this one, even though it was clearly 100% on Grosjean
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      09-04-2012, 07:18 AM   #74
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somehow i knew people would try to argue LH was partly at fault on this one, even though it was clearly 100% on Grosjean
I'm not saying that it's Hamiltons fault at all actually. Grosjean was too aggressive - I'm just trying to add a bit more perspective on it.

You can see the video he moves over very heavily and from the other side of the track to block Hamilton.

I'm just saying that a race ban - with everything else that the FIA hasn't given a race ban for is - is far too much.
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      09-04-2012, 08:51 AM   #75
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Again, clearly a mistake on Grosjean and he deserved the penalty.

But what is a fair penalty? Taking out world championship contenders will be race ban? and taking out mid-field will be 10-place grid penalty? taking out drivers never scored any points yet will result a 3-place grid penalty? Victims will be accumulated penalties?

Perhaps the stewards decided his mistake could result a very serious accident and injured some other drivers. Thus this kind of harsh penalty. But the thing is, (compare to Maldonado), Grosgean is very apologetic to the accident he caused and take full responsibility like a man. No excuses, just a bad move and over ambitious.

Unlike some drivers who never learn from his over aggressiveness, lack of driver respect and etiquette. Use his car as a weapon to crash on to Hamilton last year in Spa, and earlier this year in Monaco with Perez. These are the deliberate actions that can possibly injure other drivers, and these are the race bans that the stewards should given.
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      09-04-2012, 10:32 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
I'm just saying that a race ban - with everything else that the FIA hasn't given a race ban for is - is far too much.
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Again, clearly a mistake on Grosjean and he deserved the penalty.

But what is a fair penalty? Taking out world championship contenders will be race ban? and taking out mid-field will be 10-place grid penalty? taking out drivers never scored any points yet will result a 3-place grid penalty? Victims will be accumulated penalties?

Perhaps the stewards decided his mistake could result a very serious accident and injured some other drivers. Thus this kind of harsh penalty. But the thing is, (compare to Maldonado), Grosgean is very apologetic to the accident he caused and take full responsibility like a man. No excuses, just a bad move and over ambitious.

Unlike some drivers who never learn from his over aggressiveness, lack of driver respect and etiquette. Use his car as a weapon to crash on to Hamilton last year in Spa, and earlier this year in Monaco with Perez. These are the deliberate actions that can possibly injure other drivers, and these are the race bans that the stewards should given.
I def agree w/ that, there is an inconsistency w/ the way penalties are given

for this one, i was sort of ok w/ due to the severity of the crash, seeing the Lotus fly over Alonso head was pretty scary

but also a good point, Maldonado not getting any type of severe penalty for all he's done is very wrong
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      09-04-2012, 11:52 AM   #77
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one last thing i just remembered about this race, what about that pass the Iceman pulled on Schummi on the run up to la rogue, wow!
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      09-04-2012, 07:39 PM   #78
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Something no one has mentioned yet about the crash at the start, had any of those cars come across the wall on the right and side, we would have had several dead photographers. A whole lot of them were standing there some even hanging their bodies over the concrete fence, what a mess that would have been...
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      09-04-2012, 09:16 PM   #79
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Congratulation Jenson Button. Good win, good driver, not great but just a smooth driving style.
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      09-04-2012, 09:46 PM   #80
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I totally think Grosjean's penalty is fair, the problem is Maldonado's penalties have not been severe enough
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      09-04-2012, 10:45 PM   #81
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Something no one has mentioned yet about the crash at the start, had any of those cars come across the wall on the right and side, we would have had several dead photographers. A whole lot of them were standing there some even hanging their bodies over the concrete fence, what a mess that would have been...
This what I was waiting to read here. Not to mention the potential for tires flying straight off the track in the crowd. Glad there were no injuries.
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      09-07-2012, 12:11 PM   #82
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I really enjoy these, didnt see this one get posted yet

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