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      09-03-2012, 12:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
There is no confusion - we know the difference between the 2 (lol). We have been dealing with Alusil and Nikasil for a long time

BMW enthusiasts started chatting about Nikasil/Alusil in the M60 days. Nothing recent about the M60 For reference, we have been building BMW engines in house since the 1980s.

In our experience, people who actually pay the money and buy engines do not have such a simple process...

How many nikasil/alusil engines have you built/sleeved? How many sleeves have you supplied to people with these engines? We have done a bunch .

If you did not know, we are the largest global stocking dealer of BMW specific engine components.
Your post comes across as confrontational and is a little off-putting. BMRLVR was not attacking, rather, he was informing the community while showing rationale behind his question, Are you capable of, or have you successfully bored and honed an ausil block to factory specs?

You may have been working on BMW's for a while, but you're a relative newbie on this forum. "If you did not know..." BMRLVR (to put it mildly) has quite a bit of first-hand mass scale engine experience.
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      09-03-2012, 12:52 PM   #24
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Our engine shop was a diesel shop before VAC came into play, then they built BMW engines for VAC. Eventually VAC bought them and took the machine work 100% BMW.

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Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
My reasoning for the detailed post about Alusil was because you didn't mention in the thread or on your site anywhere that you guys machine alusil blocks and you don't list Mahle as one of the vendors that you use.
Yes, we sell Mahle pistons and have a long standing relationship with those guys. We generally push CP though.



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As for the heat transfer comments of mine and your rebuttal questioning my experience and asking how many Alusil/Nikasil blocks I have sleeved, that is irrelevant
Oh, we have sleeved a bunch and have had no problems. That the only reason I asked, not trying to make this a challenge. I can only speak to the experience we and our clients have had with iron sleeved aluminum engines.

Quote:
My intentions are not to discredit VAC or take anything away from this engine build thread, I would just like to know that you guys are able and willing to do machining on Alusil blocks, I saw from the photos that you have a boring/honing machine that is more than capable of doing the job. If you are willing and able, we can talk about building me my stroker!
I'd love to chat I want to get this beast documented on the engine dyno before I start the 'official' marketing.

Quote:
Now hurry up and get this thing on the DYNO, I wanna see what it puts down for power
Me too!
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      09-03-2012, 12:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC ///M View Post
Your post comes across as confrontational and is a little off-putting. BMRLVR was not attacking, rather, he was informing the community while showing rationale behind his question, Are you capable of, or have you successfully bored and honed an ausil block to factory specs?

You may have been working on BMW's for a while, but you're a relative newbie on this forum. "If you did not know..." BMRLVR (to put it mildly) has quite a bit of first-hand mass scale engine experience.
BMRLVR had no problems with my post. I have no problem with his. After I read his first reply I looked at his post history before I replied -pretty common practice.

In my first reply I said "We have the resources to offer any S65 solution" Is that not clear?
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      09-03-2012, 01:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
In my first reply I said "We have the resources to offer any S65 solution" Is that not clear?
Clear as mud.

BMR may not have had a problem with your post, but as mentioned in mine, I DID.
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      09-03-2012, 01:10 PM   #27
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Does every thread have to turn into a pissing match? Geez
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      09-03-2012, 02:56 PM   #28
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Fair enough Mike!

One final question: Do you have someone able to tune the S65 for the Schrick cams, or is this engine going to be outsourced?

Thanks again and I will be in touch!
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      09-03-2012, 03:40 PM   #29
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Great thread as always Mike! There's always a pack of information and something to be learned!

I can't wait to see the continuous progress of this motor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Fair enough Mike!

One final question: Do you have someone able to tune the S65 for the Schrick cams, or is this engine going to be outsourced?

Thanks again and I will be in touch!
If I recall correctly, and I don't mean to speak for Mike, but I think this car will be using a stand-alone. Not sure who's doing the tuning though.

What I want to see is a 4.4L S65 with aggressive cams and headwork properly tuned on the MSS65 DME. ... with stepped-long tube headers for auditory sake, haha.
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      09-03-2012, 03:52 PM   #30
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Looks like a really good job done by Mike and the VAC crew!
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      09-03-2012, 04:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR
Fair enough Mike!

One final question: Do you have someone able to tune the S65 for the Schrick cams, or is this engine going to be outsourced?

Thanks again and I will be in touch!
Cool man.

We will be tuning it with Pectel. Our engine dyno is disassembled and in a trailer (lol) so we need to bring to our partners facility.
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      09-03-2012, 06:09 PM   #32
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Really like this thread, learning quite a bit. Didn't VAC cover sleeved engines in detail in a different forum? I think I saw a sleeved S65 and the walls between the cylinders were super thin (before the sleeves). The workmanship seemed to be top notch. Not an expert on this stuff.
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      09-03-2012, 07:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
Cool man.

We will be tuning it with Pectel. Our engine dyno is disassembled and in a trailer (lol) so we need to bring to our partners facility.
The Pectel is an impressive engine management system!!!

I guess one more question, do you guys have the ability, or have an affiliate with the ability to tune the S65 for added displacement and/or cams?

If you don't I would be glad to have ESS tune the engine for me. They IMO have been the most successful in writing software for the S65 using the MSS60 while retaining full functionality of all the factory safety features that the DME is capable of. For me an OEM like package is important for my car since it is going to be a mainly street driven car and not just a track toy!



Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
What I want to see is a 4.4L S65 with aggressive cams and headwork properly tuned on the MSS65 DME. ... with stepped-long tube headers for auditory sake, haha.
You and me both!!!!
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      09-03-2012, 07:59 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
The Pectel is an impressive engine management system!!!
Sure is! It's amazing to see what gains are possible with a powerful solution.

Quote:
I guess one more question, do you guys have the ability, or have an affiliate with the ability to tune the S65 for added displacement and/or cams?

If you don't I would be glad to have ESS tune the engine for me. They IMO have been the most successful in writing software for the S65 using the MSS60 while retaining full functionality of all the factory safety features that the DME is capable of. For me an OEM like package is important for my car since it is going to be a mainly street driven car and not just a track toy!
We haven't done it yet. Most of our 'serious' customers are all out race guys. We will be doing some work with our shop car very soon - more on that later. ESS is very good, no doubt!
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      09-04-2012, 12:56 AM   #35
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Could someone explain how RD-Sport got to 4.6L for their stroker?

I don't know anything about engines but was wondering how much extra work would be needed to use a flat plane crank to get that Ferrari type sound?

.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      09-04-2012, 02:29 AM   #36
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      09-04-2012, 09:10 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus
Could someone explain how RD-Sport got to 4.6L for their stroker?

I don't know anything about engines but was wondering how much extra work would be needed to use a flat plane crank to get that Ferrari type sound?

.
The RD Sport engine uses a larger bore and longer stroke, this engine is using a stock bore and longer stroke.

A flat plane crank would require new cams, completely new software and lots of R&D to make it work properly for a street driven car..
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      09-04-2012, 10:04 AM   #38
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Loving this post. So much information. to VAC great work as usual.
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      09-04-2012, 01:44 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
The RD Sport engine uses a larger bore and longer stroke, this engine is using a stock bore and longer stroke.

A flat plane crank would require new cams, completely new software and lots of R&D to make it work properly for a street driven car..
Thanks for the info.
I figured RD bored it, but from the discussion here, it seems that it's a big deal to bore this engine.

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      09-04-2012, 02:07 PM   #40
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Wow, what a build. Thanks for the info.
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      09-05-2012, 11:51 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
We are in love with the S65, trust me. We hammer our 650hp '08 E92 (with bone stock engine) prob more than anyone and it just keeps on ticking.
I did 54 hot laps Supercharged at the Drag strip indeed a no joke engine !
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      09-05-2012, 06:08 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
We are in love with the S65, trust me. We hammer our 650hp '08 E92 (with bone stock engine) prob more than anyone and it just keeps on ticking.
I did 54 hot laps Supercharged at the Drag strip indeed a no joke engine !
I was witness to that beating....
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      09-06-2012, 03:29 AM   #43
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Good work Mike. Look forward to the results of this one.
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      09-07-2012, 08:41 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
Great thread as always Mike! There's always a pack of information and something to be learned!

I can't wait to see the continuous progress of this motor!


If I recall correctly, and I don't mean to speak for Mike, but I think this car will be using a stand-alone. Not sure who's doing the tuning though.

What I want to see is a 4.4L S65 with aggressive cams and headwork properly tuned on the MSS65 DME. ... with stepped-long tube headers for auditory sake, haha.
You mean MSS60 DME - the MSS65 powers the S85 V10 Motor.

Personally I am a fan of using the stock engine management system, but a finely tuned standalone (although a lot more work) will do the trick. Experience with tuning the factory vanos profiles seems to be hit or miss. But I can tell you first hand that the MSS6x DME + Cams, with a properly amended vanos profile can make some serious power. I worked on an E60 M5 that had Schrick cams and it went from 420 baseline to 464whp with some dyno tuning and particular vanos changes to account for the different camshafts. It's also very important that whoever installs the camshafts does it properly, I have seen too many cars with the cam timing off due to improper installation. VAC is certainly on top of things, and I'm excited to see this build progress.

I used to live pretty close to VAC (this was 7 years ago though) and have been there a few times. My roomate in college, Steve Small, used to work there (around the time that the owner passed away), and I have always enjoyed vising the shop and seeing all of the serious eye candy there.

Keep up the good work!
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