BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
ESS Tuning
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-09-2012, 02:07 PM   #45
ilya335
Private First Class
2
Rep
158
Posts

 
Drives: BMWs
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West L.A.

iTrader: (0)

I've only been to the track a few times but the first thing I would personally do is pickup an 18in track set. My PS2's get pretty shredded once they heat up (100 degrees didn't help). If you plan on going to multiple events it makes sense. Plus it allows to play with tire widths and air pressure setups. On the safety side, you'll always be rolling on non tracked PS2's for your daily driving, I feel that will add some peace of mind.

The OEM 18in" are BBS's and there are plenty of sets being sold for cheap usually. Slap on some Advans or any other extreme non R compound tire and have fun. The tires will be cheaper to replace and you'll get the chance to experiment.

Otherwise I would just pick up some small stuff, gloves, jack, air gauge, a GoPro and mount so I can watch and review what I'm doing right/wrong.
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2012, 02:17 AM   #46
turb0mike
turb0mike's Avatar
70
Rep
2,709
Posts

 
Drives: E90 335i Racecar
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 BMW 335i  [4.45]
As said before, really master your car in stock form and it will translate once you start modifying. I wish I had tracked my car with nothing on it but I ended up my first track day with mostly all bolt ons, KW/swift, and stoptechs, lol. I will say that the most important lineup should be: wheels/tires, brakes, suspension, aero (including racing seats/harnesses), power
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2012, 02:49 AM   #47
Autobahn335i
Lieutenant Colonel
Autobahn335i's Avatar
Luxembourg
28
Rep
1,600
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Luxembourg

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turb0mike View Post
As said before, really master your car in stock form and it will translate once you start modifying. I wish I had tracked my car with nothing on it but I ended up my first track day with mostly all bolt ons, KW/swift, and stoptechs, lol. I will say that the most important lineup should be: wheels/tires, brakes, suspension, aero (including racing seats/harnesses), power
I would agree but there are some mods which also give more safety on the track (brakes, seats/harnesses).

To go faster, tires are the most important upgrade. Then suspension (including camber plates) and power mods.
__________________
Performance Seats, Exhaust, Splitters, Pedals, Steering Wheel / RB Turbos / M3 CF Roof / Brembo GT BBK 355/345 / Rollcage / Forge FMIC / Quaife LSD / Öhlins Road & Track / M3 Suspension Parts / Powerflex Bushings / Vorshlag Camberplates / Megan Racing Toe Links / LeatherZ Gauges / Extended M3 DCT Paddles / ER Sports OC / AR OC / Aux Radiator / AR DPs / Alpina TCU / COBB Pro-Tune
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2012, 03:05 PM   #48
rcracin
Private
0
Rep
82
Posts

 
Drives: toyota
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: fj62

iTrader: (0)

I wouldn't wear seat harnesses without a proper rollcage. That includes a hoop, diagonal etc. If you roll the car and the roof caves in, your neck doesn't have room to slide out of the way with harnesses versus a seatbelt.

Then I wouldn't drive a car on the street with a cage without a helmet on all the time. Obviously not feasable.

Tires & brake pads and keep on driving. Get a pyrometer to make sure your alignment is on point in that you're making use of your full tire.

Do some data acquisition then coilovers. There are a handful of nice seats that are still comfy for daily driving. The sparco evo is a moderately comfortable seat. The basic Status seat is also not so bad. I think the stock M seat is hard and uncomfortable to begin with so I wouldn't feel like I'm losing a lot with an aftermarket seat.

Try a set of Dunlop Direzza Star Specs or Advan AD08's before moving to r-comp. I prefer the Star Spec over the AD08, but that's just personal preference.
Appreciate 0
      08-22-2012, 11:47 PM   #49
radiantm3
Apex Everything!
radiantm3's Avatar
United_States
157
Rep
3,874
Posts

 
Drives: >1000 HP in my garage
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Danville, CA

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 E92 M3  [4.80]
2013 BMW X5M  [4.33]
2014 BMW i3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
BTW, track tires can also be quite dangerous at times... for example the michelin cup tires will give you basically no warning if they break loose. They have tons of grip, grip, grip, and even more grip - and then none - without warning, if you are not used to track with them. The AD08's are great, tons of grip and you feel (and hear) the limits. Run hard-core track tires, like the cups only if you have tons of expierience on the track.
+1. I love my cup tires, but I'm going back to street tires because I think they are still a bit above my skill level. I actually run faster times with street tires because I'm more comfortable riding on the limits of those tires. I've had the back tires break lose with my cups a few times and the back comes around VERY quickly. Luckily, i've had a lot of practice catching oversteer moments, but I definitely don't enjoy them when they aren't intentional. Also you need to run a lot of negative camber with the cups or you'll cord the outside pretty quickly. Unfortunately this is what happened to mine after about 4 and a half track days. Could have gone at least another 4 track days, but -1.8 degrees of camber just killed the outside. Great tire though.
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2012, 03:56 PM   #50
MTROIS
Major
MTROIS's Avatar
France
22
Rep
1,111
Posts

 
Drives: on the wrong side of the Ocean
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New Jersey, USA

iTrader: (0)

Already a lot of great advice given, but here is my input:

- as many have said, since you already have a BBK, get some track pads. I love my Pagid yellow 19, even if pricey.

- R3 head and neck restraint from Simpson (or similar) - SAFETY FIRST http://simpsonraceproducts.com/head-neck/r3.html

- you do not need R-compounds (yet), but I would think that getting a square set of the 18"x10 ET25 Apex ARC-8s or EC-7s now, with some Dunlop Star Spec or Bridgestone RE11 or Yokohama AD08 (whatever comes in 275-35-18) would be a great way of spending your money. Get 5 or 6 wheels so that you can rotate your tires and only need to travel with 1-2 spare in your car.

- may be some camber plates to get the best of both worlds: DD and Track set up.

- lastly, in order to be strapped in your OEM seat: before you enter the track, tilt your seat backwards, pull on the seat belt to lock it and move your seat forward again so as to keep the seat belt locked and tight on you. You may have to adjust this by repeating the sequence if you were too far or forward when you pulled on the belt. Works great for me and will be good until I decide to make the car a dedicated track car with bucket seats.

- lastly, read books on track driving (ie, Going Faster or Speed Secrets, etc.) and devise a learning plan on which you will be working to acquire the proper skills. Data logging tools like Harry's Lap Timer on iPhones seems a great way to measure your progress.
__________________
2008 M3 Coupé | 1995 M3 LTW | BMW CCA Instructor

Last edited by MTROIS; 09-03-2012 at 04:01 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2012, 05:49 PM   #51
bigjae1976
That's what she said...
bigjae1976's Avatar
82
Rep
5,611
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcracin View Post
I wouldn't wear seat harnesses without a proper rollcage. That includes a hoop, diagonal etc. If you roll the car and the roof caves in, your neck doesn't have room to slide out of the way with harnesses versus a seatbelt.
The Schroth harnesses are specifically designed to be used with stock seats. They are a 4 point, they're supposed to prevent submarining (don't wanna find out), and are DOT approved. My unexpert opinion is that I'd rather be in the seat and get my head crushed, maybe, rather than getting thrown around in the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Derple View Post
Yes I agree that you should be comfortable sliding and and slipping to drive on R-comps only because that means you'd have better car control. R-comps don't reward driving with a big slip angle though like street tires do. With that said, I like street tires on my street car more because you can really drive however you want and over-rotating and sliding the car is highly enjoyable, if not fast. Also m3's suspension is better suited for street tire. Only thing I miss is the stopping distance of r-comp.

OP I recommend a "cheater-streeter" type tire for your needs.
Agreed. I was running similar times on the conti scrubs and dunlop Z1*'s. The difference is I do have a lot more fun and a much higher comfort level with street tires. You have to be so careful with your tires or they cord. I've seen 2 guys go through a NEW Hoosier R6 in six 20 minutes sessions (it was hot out). The best part is the end of the day. You're whooped and just wanna get home and unwind. As you pull out of the paddock, you see all of those guys pulling their hot and dirty wheels off and then cramming them into their cars. Then you're not sticking your face near the hot wheels checking tire pressure EVERY time you come in. Frankly, I check hot pressures at lunch or after 2 runs, that's it.

I've convinced two people to go from R-Comps and scrubs to the RS3s. Both have been pretty happy so far. One guy says he's not going back to the scrubs.

I do think a stock M3 does pretty decent on slicks/R-Comps. It could be better but the car does well out of the box.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2012, 07:21 PM   #52
sleepless
Private First Class
sleepless's Avatar
United_States
2
Rep
116
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E90 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Redmond, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
The Schroth harnesses are specifically designed to be used with stock seats. They are a 4 point, they're supposed to prevent submarining (don't wanna find out), and are DOT approved. My unexpert opinion is that I'd rather be in the seat and get my head crushed, maybe, rather than getting thrown around in the car..
FYI - Those ASM harnesses allow you to flop around quite a bit after a frontal impact because the ASM bit allows for quite a bit of stretch on that side with the ASM module; this is how they prevent submarining. They effectively become a three point harness after a frontal impact.

So, their main purpose is to provide more support during track driving, and not so much after an impact, in which case they are more like stock belts.

I used to use these but now just do the "slide seat back, lock belts, slide seat forward" method of using stock belts; works almost as well as those ASM harnesses for me.

To the OP, I'd recommend, in order:

- camber plates with -2 to -2.5 camber (I like -2.2)
- track pads
- more aggressive tires like the S3 (I like the AD08s)
- coil overs
__________________
'11 E90, Cantrell brake ducts, Apex 18x10 ARC-8, 265/35 PSS, RS19 pads, -2.2 camber, CMS Lap Timer Pro
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 02:52 AM   #53
OC3
Havin' a blast!
OC3's Avatar
United_States
52
Rep
4,819
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTROIS View Post
- lastly, in order to be strapped in your OEM seat: before you enter the track, tilt your seat backwards, pull on the seat belt to lock it and move your seat forward again so as to keep the seat belt locked and tight on you. You may have to adjust this by repeating the sequence if you were too far or forward when you pulled on the belt. Works great for me and will be good until I decide to make the car a dedicated track car with bucket seats.
Works for me, as well.

I'm strapped in real nice & tight - no sliding around at all.

It works so well that I stopped looking for Recaro & harness.
__________________

BRP CW13 1:56 | CVR CW 2:01 | CVR CCW 2:02 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
2013 E92 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP | JRZ RS Pro | Brembo | Endless | Volk TE37 18x10.5 squared | NT01/TD/ContiGrandAm | no other mods, nor weight shavings
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 09:52 AM   #54
apecush
Lieutenant
6
Rep
447
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Edmonton

iTrader: (2)

+1 on locking the stock belt. I'm not a small guy (6'1", 210 lbs) and any movement during hard cornering now feels like me flexing the seat, not the seatbelt giving up. Schroth harness wouldn't change this one bit.
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 11:24 AM   #55
bigjae1976
That's what she said...
bigjae1976's Avatar
82
Rep
5,611
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
I did the seat belt thing and my left knee and left side got beat up pretty badly. The biggest difference I noticed is that my upper body seemed more planted.

I'm 5'10" and was about 170lbs the last time I used the seat belt.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 08:15 PM   #56
klammer
Brigadier General
40
Rep
3,244
Posts

 
Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 07 X5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I did the seat belt thing and my left knee and left side got beat up pretty badly. The biggest difference I noticed is that my upper body seemed more planted.

I'm 5'10" and was about 170lbs the last time I used the seat belt.
That's pretty much my exact specs I've given up on staying in the seat and love flopping all over the cabin, that's part of the fun and yes my left knee gets bruised all the time, in fact I think it's starting to callous
__________________
mods: akra evo, dinan 3.45 diff, ess akra tune, dinan stg.3, Alcon bbk, HRE P40
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2012, 10:25 PM   #57
Porschefile
Major
Porschefile's Avatar
16
Rep
1,233
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tennessee

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I did the seat belt thing and my left knee and left side got beat up pretty badly. The biggest difference I noticed is that my upper body seemed more planted.

I'm 5'10" and was about 170lbs the last time I used the seat belt.
Yup, same here. Still not even close to a race seat/harness. But I probably won't sink the $5k on those (with cage) till next year.
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2012, 12:11 AM   #58
OC3
Havin' a blast!
OC3's Avatar
United_States
52
Rep
4,819
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm, locking the seat belt works so well for me that my left leg is free for left-foot braking (needless to say, no bruising of left knee).
__________________

BRP CW13 1:56 | CVR CW 2:01 | CVR CCW 2:02 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
2013 E92 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP | JRZ RS Pro | Brembo | Endless | Volk TE37 18x10.5 squared | NT01/TD/ContiGrandAm | no other mods, nor weight shavings
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2012, 12:15 AM   #59
kaiv
Major
United_States
24
Rep
1,237
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (15)

5'10" 170lbs with a bruised knee checking in
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2012, 09:59 AM   #60
swartzentruber
Captain
United_States
8
Rep
602
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago NW suburbs, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I did the seat belt thing and my left knee and left side got beat up pretty badly. The biggest difference I noticed is that my upper body seemed more planted.
I did the seatbelt tightening thing for years in my R32, but the biggest issue I had was occasionally it would unlock itself (maybe the bmw's don't do that). Now that I have the harnesses, I can say it came nowhere close to holding me in as well, though it's the main non-harness alternative. It is definitely not a cheap upgrade, if you go the full cage (or half cage like me), seat, and harness route.
__________________
2011 Jerez Black/Fox Red E90 M3 DCT, ZCP, ZCV, ZCW, ZP2, BMW Apps
2004 VW R32 (track car)
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2012, 10:19 AM   #61
wwjd15
Banned
United_States
22
Rep
1,322
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E92 M3 MR
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (6)

Not sure if you already spent the $$ or not. If I were you, I would do

Option 1: for long term track usage and self training
- KW Clubsport
- AD08
- better brake pads for fronts

Option 2: If improving lap time (go faster) is critical, spending is limited to $6k then
- KW V3
- AD08
- GT Wing
- Front brake pads

Option 3: If your next upgrade is coming up soon, and you want to do everything right at once, I would actually spend the whole budget on coilovers set up. However, if you don't have a proper shop to do this, then don't do it. Many places would just mess up those fancy coilovers.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:36 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST