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      09-01-2012, 02:34 AM   #441
scollins
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Originally Posted by Razzy View Post
1098S doesn't come with a slipper clutch?
Nope. The first of the 1X98 series to come with a slipper was the 2011 1198SP. All 1199's have slippers, as do MTS1200's. I don't even have a quick shifter yet (looking at HM). I am running GP shift now, which I like a lot better.

Anyway, I'm beat, time for bed.
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      09-01-2012, 02:36 AM   #442
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Last Wednesday, I finished up work and got home. A few of my friends wanted to ride, so we went out. We were going to do our usual ride, twisties and nothing stupid.

One of the guys needs to fill up so we decide to go to a gas station in the vicinity first. A close friend of mine is leading and I am second, followed by two others further back. We come to a light and take a right. He is further ahead as he was able to leave the light first and I followed. As I took the right, I throttled it, nothing out of the ordinary except there supposedly happened to be a cop near by across the intersection that I didn't see.

Me and my friend pull into the local gas station and as soon as we get in there is a cop at the light beside it. He turns in and stop in front of me. Comes out and asks me for my info. I give him my paper work. Goes to his car and comes back, asks me to follow him and then requests I put my hands behind my back and cuffs me. In I go in the back of the cruiser.

He said he saw me gunning it but he was not able to radar me. He then followed and happened to see me at the station. He says it looked like I was going double the speed limit. Anything over 50km/h over posted speed limit classifies as racing in motherfucking Canada.

He says i'm getting charged with that and that he doesn't need radar proof to charge me with a racing charge. If he had me on radar he could charge me with racing and speeding.

He goes on to spin the entire story saying that I tried to hide at the gas station which is plain and open site. I said I never tried to run or hide. I didn't even know he was looking for me or after me as he didn't even turn his lights on or anything.

He said he didn't want to chase me and he said by chance I happened to be at the gas station, otherwise he would have never gotten me. He said this himself.

Now I have a court date for the end of October. My licence was suspended for 7 days and bike impounted for 7 days. Just got them back yesterday.
What a bunch of crap! Good luck at your court date!
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      09-01-2012, 03:01 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by scollins View Post
Nope. The first of the 1X98 series to come with a slipper was the 2011 1198SP. All 1199's have slippers, as do MTS1200's. I don't even have a quick shifter yet (looking at HM). I am running GP shift now, which I like a lot better.

Anyway, I'm beat, time for bed.
thanks for the info, I didn't know that. I thought all 1098's regardless of year came with Slipper clutches. What about steering damper?

How was the track today?
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      09-01-2012, 09:48 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by Razzy View Post
thanks for the info, I didn't know that. I thought all 1098's regardless of year came with Slipper clutches. What about steering damper?

How was the track today?
Most European bikes never come with anything unless you pay out the ass for some supposed "factory" version or bikes that had high MSRPs to begin with.

D675 = no slipper / no steering damper
1x98 = no slipper / not sure about steering damper
Aprilia RSV1000 = no slipper / no steering damper

ZX-6R = slipper and Ohlins steering damper
CBR600 = Electronic steering damper / no slipper

I could go on but the good news is that the Euro brands are catching up due to the drop in the deflation of the JPY.
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      09-01-2012, 10:00 AM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzy View Post
thanks for the info, I didn't know that. I thought all 1098's regardless of year came with Slipper clutches.
Just the 1098R version has a slipper as standard as far as I recall.
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      09-01-2012, 11:12 AM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzy View Post
thanks for the info, I didn't know that. I thought all 1098's regardless of year came with Slipper clutches. What about steering damper?

How was the track today?
1X98: non-adjustable damper
1X98S: Ohlins adjustable damper

Track day was awesome, and the slipper worked great! Which is good since i installed it myself. My legs are quite sore today. No chicken strips on my rear tire, and I got my knee down for the first time (just barely, for a millisecond, but I heard the scrape!).
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      09-01-2012, 11:18 AM   #447
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Just the 1098R version has a slipper as standard as far as I recall.
Yep, I forgot about the R version.

And no kidding on the cost. $1664 after tax for the Ducati Corse slipper clutch and a new aluminum clutch plate pack. And that was with a 20% discount on the slipper! Normally would be closer to $2000. installation would have been an another $200
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      09-01-2012, 02:29 PM   #448
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I don't even have a quick shifter yet (looking at HM).
HM/Annitori....

Good stuff. Im running the Annitori RL Lite on my track rig.
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      09-01-2012, 03:12 PM   #449
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My '12 Diavel came with a slipper clutch standard, but no steering damper. Although with 28 degrees rake it doesn't need a steering damper, the bike is pretty solid.

My previous Ducati, a 2001 748S, came with a non-Ohlins adjustable (if I recall correctly, pretty sure it was adjustable) steering damper.

The R and SP/SPS models always get the best bits from Ducati...

scollins, congrats on getting your knee down the first time! Mine was so exciting, I still remember like it was yesterday! Glad you had a good track day.
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      09-01-2012, 05:26 PM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scollins View Post
Nope. The first of the 1X98 series to come with a slipper was the 2011 1198SP. All 1199's have slippers, as do MTS1200's. I don't even have a quick shifter yet (looking at HM). I am running GP shift now, which I like a lot better.

Anyway, I'm beat, time for bed.
I have no idea how anyone who does any track days would not want reverse shifting. When you need to go up a gear at full lean it makes it possible.
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      09-01-2012, 05:29 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by .b0link View Post
HM/Annitori....

Good stuff. Im running the Annitori RL Lite on my track rig.
Quick shifter is great but unless you are full blown trying to shave milliseconds on your lap times it is not required. Makes me laugh when you see it on a bike that does not see any track days or drag racing.
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      09-01-2012, 06:25 PM   #452
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Quick shifter is great but unless you are full blown trying to shave milliseconds on your lap times it is not required. Makes me laugh when you see it on a bike that does not see any track days or drag racing.
In that case, sticky rubber, aftermarket suspension, exhausts, or anything else for that matter is not required.

Im no speed demon, but a quick shifter sure as hell makes riding easier.

On the street, yeah sorta pointless.

On the track....even the newbie can benifit from being able to upshift while cranked over in a turn without upsetting the suspension, or when coming out of a hard hairpin left transitioning into a 3rd gear right hander.

The quick shifter isn't valuable because it shifts fractions of a second faster than one could manually, but because it makes it safe, feasible, and easy to shift in situations where it would otherwise be dangerous, awkward, etc.


Edit: Also, I would say in terms of importance, quickshifter should come before slipper. Rev matching is not that difficult.
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      09-01-2012, 07:00 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by .b0link View Post
In that case, sticky rubber, aftermarket suspension, exhausts, or anything else for that matter is not required.

Im no speed demon, but a quick shifter sure as hell makes riding easier.

On the street, yeah sorta pointless.

On the track....even the newbie can benifit from being able to upshift while cranked over in a turn without upsetting the suspension, or when coming out of a hard hairpin left transitioning into a 3rd gear right hander.

The quick shifter isn't valuable because it shifts fractions of a second faster than one could manually, but because it makes it safe, feasible, and easy to shift in situations where it would otherwise be dangerous, awkward, etc.


Edit: Also, I would say in terms of importance, quickshifter should come before slipper. Rev matching is not that difficult.
You can do the same thing by letting off the throttle for sec and shifting up without the clutch. I did it for years in CCS before there was quick shifters. Rev matching is not the reason for a slipper clutch. Let's say your bike does 65 miles an hour in first gear. You come in to a corner at 68 mph downshift to first and release the clutch prior to going in the rear wheel is going to start hopping because the transmission can not keep up. The slipper clutch will allow the rear to spin and get rid of the hop making it an easier transition into the corner. I'm not saying that you don't need this stuff what I'm saying is that someone who is not pushing the limits of their riding capabilities does not need it.
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      09-01-2012, 07:26 PM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamelBiscuit View Post
I have no idea how anyone who does any track days would not want reverse shifting. When you need to go up a gear at full lean it makes it possible.
I raced an SV650 in WSMC and never had reverse shift; maybe it would have helped but it certainly didn't hinder my progress. Stock suspension, lack of steering damper, etc., were all more limiting factors that I took care of first. Guess I never got around to needing reverse shift with all the other crap I had to do to my bike, plus crash repairs!

Plus most guys that are not racing and do not have a dedicated track bike just go to the track to learn their machines' capabilities and improve their riding skills which they can take back to the street. That is how I started out before the racing bug hit me.

In that context, it makes sense to do track days with with standard shift pattern. I never understood on the contrary why anyone would want reverse pattern on the street (not saying you suggested this, by the way) as if you're riding to where you need it, you shouldn't be on the street.
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      09-01-2012, 10:41 PM   #455
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You can do the same thing by letting off the throttle for sec and shifting up without the clutch. I did it for years in CCS before there was quick shifters. Rev matching is not the reason for a slipper clutch. Let's say your bike does 65 miles an hour in first gear. You come in to a corner at 68 mph downshift to first and release the clutch prior to going in the rear wheel is going to start hopping because the transmission can not keep up. The slipper clutch will allow the rear to spin and get rid of the hop making it an easier transition into the corner. I'm not saying that you don't need this stuff what I'm saying is that someone who is not pushing the limits of their riding capabilities does not need it.
You dont need to educate me on the physics of a slipper clutch...i am well aware of what it does, and also well aware that you can negate the effects of it through rev matching and feathering of the clutch.

I also know that you can roll slightly off the throttle and clutchless upshift. This isnt voodoo we are talking about.

However, comma, when doing that you WILL upset the suspension. And generally it works best when the engine is at or near full throttle. Going back to my example of being mid corner, in an extremely fast turn, hanging way off the bike, and needing to shift up, rolling off the throttle and clunking into gear is not the brightest of ideas. On a straight away, sure, Ive *also* done that for years. However I would not dare attempt a clutchless upshift, mid corner while hanging off the bike with a knee on the ground.

Personally turns 11-12 at Jerez come to mind. Two consecutive, extremely fast (4th gear) turns, where if you are hitting it right, you need to upshift before exiting 12 while doing triple digits, with your puck skipping on the piano. Id like to see how a clutchless upshift works out for the average person.
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      09-01-2012, 11:57 PM   #456
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You dont need to educate me on the physics of a slipper clutch...i am well aware of what it does, and also well aware that you can negate the effects of it through rev matching and feathering of the clutch.

I also know that you can roll slightly off the throttle and clutchless upshift. This isnt voodoo we are talking about.

However, comma, when doing that you WILL upset the suspension. And generally it works best when the engine is at or near full throttle. Going back to my example of being mid corner, in an extremely fast turn, hanging way off the bike, and needing to shift up, rolling off the throttle and clunking into gear is not the brightest of ideas. On a straight away, sure, Ive *also* done that for years. However I would not dare attempt a clutchless upshift, mid corner while hanging off the bike with a knee on the ground.

Personally turns 11-12 at Jerez come to mind. Two consecutive, extremely fast (4th gear) turns, where if you are hitting it right, you need to upshift before exiting 12 while doing triple digits, with your puck skipping on the piano. Id like to see how a clutchless upshift works out for the average person.
You cannot negate this by rv matching. Try this next time without a slipper clutch. If you are making a pass for instance and you run it in a little hot and you are over what your gearbox will do even by a couple of mph you will hop while leaned over in the corner and that probably means crash. If you try to pull the clutch in while leaned over to stabilize the gearbox then you are going to crash also. Someone of your riding capabilities already knows this because all fast riders trailbrake so good luck with trying to pull in the clutch and brake all while being leaned over at the same time. As far as clutchless shifting leaned over it's not that bad. You would be fine. People have been doing it for years. For the average person maybe not. Agreed on that.
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      09-02-2012, 01:34 AM   #457
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I think we can see where each other is coming from. And for the record, I'm not running a slipper yet.

I'm also not Steve McQueen out there either, and I'm just on an itty bitty 600.

As for the clutchless up shifting while cranked over in triple digits, I'm not too proud to say I don't have the cojones for that, not when a standalone quickshift unit can be had for under 300.

Whether I, or anyone else needs a quickshift is debatable, but it sure as shit makes things easier and gives me one less thing to think/worry about and I am allll for that lol.
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      09-02-2012, 02:15 AM   #458
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In that context, it makes sense to do track days with with standard shift pattern. I never understood on the contrary why anyone would want reverse pattern on the street (not saying you suggested this, by the way) as if you're riding to where you need it, you shouldn't be on the street.
To me, a shift pattern is a shift pattern, so what difference does it make what pattern someone uses on the street? I keep reading the statement that "reverse shifting isn't for the street." Honestly, what difference does it make on the street, especially in a negative-impact sort of way? I don't see any downside to reverse shifting on the street. Just because someone a long time ago picked "1 down 5 up" as the "standard" pattern doesn't mean it is better or worse than the other way around.

And as a single-bike owner, I'm not switching my bike between the two patterns based on riding street or track (even though it is stupidly simply to do on my bike.) That is a recipe for disaster. Pick one and use it exclusively. Otherwise, you could have a very bad day. 150 mph of a straight in 5th, near redline, and you mean to grab 6th but instead forget what pattern you are running (or forgot to swap it before the track day) and BAM! 4th gear grenades your engine and tosses your ass for a very nasty spill.

As for rev matching, I still try and do it, even with the slipper. It just makes the bike much more stable when I don't get it right (which is often.....) I can't seem to hold steady, hard braking and blipping the throttle at the same time. I either wind up pumping the brake (bad), or not braking quite hard enough (bad), or not getting enough of a blip and having engine braking cause the front end to dive (also bad.)
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Last edited by scollins; 09-02-2012 at 02:22 AM.
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      09-02-2012, 03:25 AM   #459
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      09-02-2012, 11:30 AM   #460
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      09-02-2012, 01:19 PM   #461
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      09-02-2012, 04:01 PM   #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelthepsycho View Post
Most European bikes never come with anything unless you pay out the ass for some supposed "factory" version or bikes that had high MSRPs to begin with.

D675 = no slipper / no steering damper
1x98 = no slipper / not sure about steering damper
Aprilia RSV1000 = no slipper / no steering damper

ZX-6R = slipper and Ohlins steering damper
CBR600 = Electronic steering damper / no slipper

I could go on but the good news is that the Euro brands are catching up due to the drop in the deflation of the JPY.
a bike with a properly set up suspension doest need a steering damper, because it doesnt have headshake problems. most guys who have tank slappers have setup their suspensions poorly, usually too stiff.

different school of thought, and everyone is different, but i wouldnt want a slipper for my road bike. ducatis are bad enough with their dry clutches (love the way they look and sound), but add in a slipper and gasp!
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