BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-28-2012, 01:12 PM   #1
the1andonly
Lieutenant
16
Rep
535
Posts

 
Drives: black on black 128i manual
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: midwest

iTrader: (0)

New laws passed today...the days of the drivers car are coming to a close...

New laws passed today under Obama to double U.S. fuel economy to 54.5 mpg by 2024...the days of the drivers car are coming to a close...

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/28/auto...P_LN&hpt=hp_t3
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2012, 01:20 PM   #2
ken1137
Brigadier General
ken1137's Avatar
United_States
41
Rep
3,697
Posts

 
Drives: a slow 2009 e90 335i
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2009 e90 335i  [3.20]
Sure, and I want a computer chip in my contacts to control all my handheld devices. Well, we might get that before this 54 mpg target since technology changes every 6 months. Weren't we suppose to have E85 available for all cars and gas stations ? it's nice to say and write a bill for political reasons but the infrastructure & willingness to change is not in place and Obama will be long gone. That reminds me...why aren't all of the coal power plants meeting President Nixson emissions standards written into a bill in 1972? I digress.
__________________

BMWCCA member
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2012, 01:47 PM   #3
kensington
Private First Class
2
Rep
155
Posts

 
Drives: 08 135
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tulsa, ok

iTrader: (0)

That 54.5 is never set in stone. When auto companies cant meet it im sure the laws will be modified
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2012, 02:03 PM   #4
135Pats
Turbo's Here
135Pats's Avatar
United_States
62
Rep
5,703
Posts

 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (2)

All this can be traced back to CAFE law, and the mess it created...Hopefully these targets will never be mandated, we'll see.
__________________
E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Meisterschaft Race/Berk Resonated/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/FFTEC LPFP/HFS-4 DO Stainless Lines/BMS Thermostat Delete/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/BMS OCC/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2012, 02:09 PM   #5
PUREPHAZED
Helping thru Design
United Kingdom
2
Rep
162
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 BMW 135i
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to PUREPHAZED
Great stuff to push the auto makers! I purchased this car because it was one of the best all-round bang for the buck cars for what I needed.

I would purchase the same car again with the Obama numbers by 2024 in a heart beat.

This is another reason the i8 appeals to me.

B,

M
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #6
Zeros and ones
First Lieutenant
Zeros and ones's Avatar
United_States
8
Rep
322
Posts

 
Drives: 128i MT6 M Sport, Dinan 5
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 128i  [2.83]
2000 Dinan 5  [0.00]
and all the while Obama is pushing to have such fuel efficient cars we are having delegates proposing this:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/18/travel...ion/index.html

The main reason behind this is since we are having more fuel efficient cars, there is not enough tax dollars that covers to keep the roads maintained... (imagine that... think gas is about $4.23 per gallon. not enough money my but )

So they need to make up for the lose by taxing the driver for ever mile driver
So far.. it has been a major disaster in other states that it was implemented in but knowing California and the shit that it actually pulls.... if it has anywhere a chance to pass it is here.

Enjoy the read.
__________________
"Nobody makes me bleed my own blood. NOBODY!!!!!"
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2012, 03:50 PM   #7
n54door
Captain
n54door's Avatar
10
Rep
624
Posts

 
Drives: 08' 135i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: DFW

iTrader: (5)

Automakers will continue to forge their ratings while the gov't tries to increase the ratings. It's a stupid game at the expense of tax payers.

Automakes need to find a way to make cars lighter, like the FR-S. If you took the average engine today, and put it in a car that weighed <2k lbs, and put the fat ass american on a diet, the mileage gains would be HUGE!
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2012, 04:18 PM   #8
Gray_Panther
Major
Gray_Panther's Avatar
15
Rep
1,220
Posts

 
Drives: 128i
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Upstate NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
Automakers will continue to forge their ratings while the gov't tries to increase the ratings. It's a stupid game at the expense of tax payers.

Automakes need to find a way to make cars lighter, like the FR-S. If you took the average engine today, and put it in a car that weighed <2k lbs, and put the fat ass american on a diet, the mileage gains would be HUGE!

Run for president!!
__________________
2012 BMW 128i 6MT Deep Sea Blue Metallic
FX-R Bi-Xenon Projectors With 5000k Bulbs & Halo's More Kick Ass Than Any BMW
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2012, 05:06 PM   #9
.b0link
Private First Class
3
Rep
170
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 LMB 135i
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Rota, Spain

iTrader: (1)

Dont worry, oil companies will never let this law actually take effect.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-29-2012, 09:35 PM   #10
dorkdog
Big Mouth No Filter
dorkdog's Avatar
United_States
11
Rep
587
Posts

 
Drives: 128i Montego Blue 6MT Sport
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Puyallup WA

iTrader: (0)

By 2024 - no oil left?
__________________
We do not inherit the Earth from our parents; we borrow it from our children
Appreciate 0
      08-29-2012, 10:18 PM   #11
Pig Farmer
Captain
9
Rep
761
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 135i
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

With the advent of horizontal shale drilling, the US will be a net exporter of oil by 2024. Unfortunately it is unlikely that we will see a decline in prices. The price of oil is set by World demand.... namely the increased prosperity in China. Hope they set similar MPG standards, but that wishful thinking.
Appreciate 0
      08-29-2012, 10:49 PM   #12
tranism
Care Bears vs Klingons
United_States
5
Rep
205
Posts

 
Drives: 128i Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

What's wrong with a sports car that gets 54 mpg? I'm down!
Appreciate 0
      08-30-2012, 08:51 AM   #13
ejm3
Captain
United_States
9
Rep
660
Posts

 
Drives: 135 Convertible 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Yeah who says it can't be done?

For much of the 80's-90's & even early 2000's the automakers (especially the US car companies) put their billions in R&D money into developing SUV's and how to make them bigger and more powerful with more options because that's where the profits were. MPG's were fairly low on the average consumer's radar screen. Back in the 90's when the Explorer was the biggest selling vehicle in the country for the US car companies SUV's & pickups made up about 50% of sales but 90% of their profits. So that's where their investment went.

Had they been putting their money into making cars better AND more effecient today we would have cars that get more MPG's.

In 2024 mabye we don't actually average 54 MPG but even if we can average 45 and have decent sports cars thats a win for everybody. Its not out of the realm of possibility if thats where we focus our efforts.
__________________
2012 135 Convertible
2010 Lexus RX350
Appreciate 0
      08-30-2012, 09:35 AM   #14
the1andonly
Lieutenant
16
Rep
535
Posts

 
Drives: black on black 128i manual
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: midwest

iTrader: (0)

to achieve 54 mpg sacrifices will have to be made...i suspect one of them will be drivability
Appreciate 0
      08-30-2012, 09:38 AM   #15
sluflyer06
Private First Class
United_States
3
Rep
170
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 135i MT
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
Automakers will continue to forge their ratings while the gov't tries to increase the ratings. It's a stupid game at the expense of tax payers.

Automakes need to find a way to make cars lighter, like the FR-S. If you took the average engine today, and put it in a car that weighed <2k lbs, and put the fat ass american on a diet, the mileage gains would be HUGE!
Wat? Forged ratings, what are you smoking? Last time I and many others checked you can get even better mileage than the sticker claims on just about every if not every car....
__________________
08' 135i MT || Cobb Stage 1 'Aggressive' 4.01 Map | BMS DCI | Berk Mid Pipes | Maddad Eurosport Axleback | E93 FSB | M-Sport Black on Black | CDV Delete ||
Appreciate 0
      08-30-2012, 09:53 AM   #16
n54door
Captain
n54door's Avatar
10
Rep
624
Posts

 
Drives: 08' 135i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: DFW

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluflyer06 View Post
Wat? Forged ratings, what are you smoking? Last time I and many others checked you can get even better mileage than the sticker claims on just about every if not every car....
Open your eyes, many of them do it - Hyundai got caught.

http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/el...pg-claims.html

Bottom line, the MPG rating system is bullshit and can be beaten. It doesn't truly account for a real world test of fuel efficiency. Like weather changes, traffic, uphill/downhill, turns, stop lights, different speed limits, etc... They use a controled close course oval track at a constant speed of 70mph in many of their tests.
Appreciate 0
      08-30-2012, 10:47 AM   #17
BrokenVert
Resident Kerbalnaut
BrokenVert's Avatar
United_States
148
Rep
10,077
Posts

 
Drives: Topless 135/Electric Boogaloo
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fahrvergnügen/NY

iTrader: (0)

And the US also mandated that they'll be 20% wind powered by 2020 - which by the way isn't happening.


Also why does fuel efficiency kill drivability? Last I checked suspension (the fun of ads like the Elise and BRZ) has nothing to do with engines.

Also it's a fleet standard. All that means isthe the companies average for the fleet (ie every car they make in a year) needs to be 54mpg.

It's not every single car they make must be 54mpg - stop being so alarmist. Remember how the 70s and 80s killed the performance car permenatly?


Yeah i dont either...
__________________

Last edited by BrokenVert; 08-30-2012 at 10:52 AM.
Appreciate 0
      08-30-2012, 10:50 AM   #18
tuco44
Lieutenant Colonel
Canada
15
Rep
1,594
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 E82 135i MSport 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
It's not every single car they make must be 54mpg - stop being so alarmist. Remember how the 70s and 80s killed the performance car permenatly?
+1
__________________
2012 135i E82 MSport 6MT Jet Black

Previous BMWs - 2012 135i MSport LMB DCT(sold), 2011 X3 35i MSport VR (sold), 2009 M3 Sedan AW (sold), 2008 535xi MSport AW (sold), 2007 328xiT Barbera (sold), plus 11 others in the 70s & 80s.
Appreciate 0
      08-30-2012, 01:09 PM   #19
J0E
Year One of the 1
1
Rep
87
Posts

 
Drives: 135i 6MT 'vert
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Denver

iTrader: (0)

Yea just like how the new cars today have managed to triple horsepower and maintain the same mileage as cars from 30 years ago. All that HP gain at no expense to mileage killed the drive-ability of the vehicles today....

I used to be against these laws until I realized that all they seem to be doing is pushing manufacturers to 1. Offer smaller more fuel efficient vehicles in their line up, and 2. make their current vehicles more fuel efficient without affecting performance.

Case in point:

2011 328i sedan: 230hp 200ft-lb 18/28 mpg
2012 328i sedan: 240hp 255ft-lb 23/34 mpg

I have a hard time believing, without a mandate, BMW would have put any time or effort into developing a turbo 4 that could get more horsepower and torque while improving mileage by 6mpg on a bigger car.
Appreciate 0
      08-30-2012, 01:30 PM   #20
Bill B.
Lieutenant
Bill B.'s Avatar
United_States
8
Rep
417
Posts

 
Drives: '12 135i, '13 X135i '15 S1000R
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cary, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J0E View Post
Yea just like how the new cars today have managed to triple horsepower and maintain the same mileage as cars from 30 years ago. All that HP gain at no expense to mileage killed the drive-ability of the vehicles today....

I used to be against these laws until I realized that all they seem to be doing is pushing manufacturers to 1. Offer smaller more fuel efficient vehicles in their line up, and 2. make their current vehicles more fuel efficient without affecting performance.

Case in point:

2011 328i sedan: 230hp 200ft-lb 18/28 mpg
2012 328i sedan: 240hp 255ft-lb 23/34 mpg

I have a hard time believing, without a mandate, BMW would have put any time or effort into developing a turbo 4 that could get more horsepower and torque while improving mileage by 6mpg on a bigger car.

They probably wouldn't even need to introduce smaller and smaller models to their fleet if they didn't keep increasing the bloat for the models they do have. Imagine the gains in fuel efficiency if they actually kept the model the same size.
Appreciate 0
      08-30-2012, 02:35 PM   #21
ejm3
Captain
United_States
9
Rep
660
Posts

 
Drives: 135 Convertible 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Remember the 5.0 liter Mustangs from the late 80's that churned out a whopping 200 or so HP.

Now they have a 600 HP Mustang that probably gets about the same mileage and is superior in every way. Imagine what they could have done if they were actually *trying* (or even forced) to improve gas mileage.

Improved mileage doesn't ruin drivability or fun and recent history has proven it. If customers demand it manufacturers will be forced to deliver.

And as noted its an average and not every car will have to get 54 MPG. And there's no saying that in 2019 they won't change it to 50 or 45 MPG because its just more realistic. If you set the target at 35 the automakers will say they can only do 31. Set the target high and negotiate from there as we get closer to the date.
__________________
2012 135 Convertible
2010 Lexus RX350
Appreciate 0
      08-30-2012, 02:57 PM   #22
Tom K.
Major General
Tom K.'s Avatar
United_States
55
Rep
5,416
Posts

 
Drives: '07 328iT, '13 Boxster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by the1andonly View Post
...the days of the drivers car are coming to a close...
And years ago, folks claimed there haven't been real "drivers' cars" since they added electric start and moved the steering wheel to the left side back around 1912!

Tom
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:34 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST